HELP ME MY ABS AlMOST KILLED ME.
- Thread starter T4RSR5'98
- Start date
97t4r81
New member
On my next runner I'm going to install a switch to turn off abs. Does anyone know if Toyota proper gives a flying hello about 18+ year old vehicles? At least my children wern't with me, I'm unhurt and I have a whole gen3 5spd for parts on my next rig. Anyone is az, need parts let me know. I still love these trucks.
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Beer_is_so_Awesome
New member
Bringing this thread back.
Hi, I have a 2000 4Runner 2.7 5MT with 4WD. No traction control. I wound up on this forum because my ABS behaves exactly like the other owners in this thread. A sudden pothole in an otherwise smooth and dry road will activate the ABS, and once it's activated braking power all but disappears.
On a snowy road, this problem is much worse. ABS kicks in immediately, at which point you better have a clear path because your car isn't stopping any time soon. You can hear it "working" (grinding, vibration through the pedals) but it only gives you about 10% of the stopping power you asked for, even if there is obviously no problem with the road surface. I have a '98 Ford Explorer with ABS that I've driven for 3 winters, and the ABS only kicks in when needed, and stops the car effectively. It's only triggered once on dry road, and it was when another driver right-turned me unexpectedly and I had nowhere to go. The tires "chirped" and the Explorer stopped *fast* while allowing me to steer onto the shoulder to avoid the other car. It works the way ABS is supposed to, which is that it only fires up when I'm about to start skidding. It's never scared me like this.
I just wanted to confirm that I have a 2000 that does this-- that the problem isn't limited to the early 3rd-gens.
Hi, I have a 2000 4Runner 2.7 5MT with 4WD. No traction control. I wound up on this forum because my ABS behaves exactly like the other owners in this thread. A sudden pothole in an otherwise smooth and dry road will activate the ABS, and once it's activated braking power all but disappears.
On a snowy road, this problem is much worse. ABS kicks in immediately, at which point you better have a clear path because your car isn't stopping any time soon. You can hear it "working" (grinding, vibration through the pedals) but it only gives you about 10% of the stopping power you asked for, even if there is obviously no problem with the road surface. I have a '98 Ford Explorer with ABS that I've driven for 3 winters, and the ABS only kicks in when needed, and stops the car effectively. It's only triggered once on dry road, and it was when another driver right-turned me unexpectedly and I had nowhere to go. The tires "chirped" and the Explorer stopped *fast* while allowing me to steer onto the shoulder to avoid the other car. It works the way ABS is supposed to, which is that it only fires up when I'm about to start skidding. It's never scared me like this.
I just wanted to confirm that I have a 2000 that does this-- that the problem isn't limited to the early 3rd-gens.
T4R2014
Elite Member
Owner of two 1996 4Runner's here. One I purchased BRAND NEW off the dealer lot, the other I purchased a few months ago from the original owner. Both are SR5. My used 4Runner had a harder life than the other one and has more miles. The ABS in the one I bought new works as well as when it was new, giving no trouble no matter the road surface. The used 1996 acts way different, often triggering over the simplest things. I haven't gotten it checked out, but I'm blaming this on time and wear, not Toyota. Both run different tires(Both run P-rated H/T tires with 90%+ tread, different brands) and brake pad setups(the one with good ABS uses recently installed OEM brake components, while the used one is running some moderately worn aftermarket components based on visual inspection), but I doubt this is the case either. I'll report back once I get the system inspected on the used one, but it still serves it's purpose for my driving conditions(some highway + stop and go traffic in the NYC areas).
Pull the ABS fuse at your own risk, but do not do it because same random dude online said it's an awesome idea. Then again, that could be a good lawsuit.
Pull the ABS fuse at your own risk, but do not do it because same random dude online said it's an awesome idea. Then again, that could be a good lawsuit.
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Only scary thing my 99 has done is to engage ABS on an ice covered driveway and then proceed to buzz its way along doing very little braking. Granted, it was actual ice, so locked wheels wouldn't have been doing much better.
FWIW - the buzzing is normal operation, not an indication of anything wrong. When engaged, the ABS system will try to bleed pressure down on any wheel that it thinks is sliding. Bleeding the pressure down reduces the braking force, in an attempt to get that wheel turning again. So part of the buzzing you feel is the system using bleed valves in the ABS valve body to let pressure down. Of course, let too much pressure down trying to get a couple of wheels turning again, and that will end up allowing the brake pedal to sink to the floor. Which would be bad. Really bad. So the system also has a hydraulic pump that kicks in to replace the fluid bled off. Thus (if it's working properly) the pedal stays relatively still. That's the majority of the buzzing you hear and feel.
In the days before ABS systems, manufacturers had to pay more attention to their braking systems, to ensure that the fronts are working harder than the rears. because if the rears ever locked up before the fronts in a panic stop, the car will spin around very violently and uncontrollably, and most drivers generally considered that as bad behavior.
Since then... who knows? There may or may not be a proper amount of mechanical brake bias/balance built into the system to work decently without the electronic nanny keeping an eye on it. Or there might not be. One thing ABS is supposed to do (and does if it is working properly) is to allow you to do full unmodulated brake pedal application (panic braking) and still be able to steer. Otherwise you're going to plow straight into something with the wheel turned. The other thing it might be doing is preventing those rears from locking up first and flipping the car around.
Last but not least, in most cases where ABS is set off in conditions that don't warrant it, and it stays on and causes severe issues with normal brake operation, it's just a fault in the system. most of the time the fault is a bad wheel sensor or two. Diagnose it, replace it, no reason to ditch the whole system because a cheap sensor goes bad.
Wait, I just googled up prices. $100 for a wheel sensor? RIDICULOUS!!! YANK ALL THE FUSES!!!
FWIW - the buzzing is normal operation, not an indication of anything wrong. When engaged, the ABS system will try to bleed pressure down on any wheel that it thinks is sliding. Bleeding the pressure down reduces the braking force, in an attempt to get that wheel turning again. So part of the buzzing you feel is the system using bleed valves in the ABS valve body to let pressure down. Of course, let too much pressure down trying to get a couple of wheels turning again, and that will end up allowing the brake pedal to sink to the floor. Which would be bad. Really bad. So the system also has a hydraulic pump that kicks in to replace the fluid bled off. Thus (if it's working properly) the pedal stays relatively still. That's the majority of the buzzing you hear and feel.
In the days before ABS systems, manufacturers had to pay more attention to their braking systems, to ensure that the fronts are working harder than the rears. because if the rears ever locked up before the fronts in a panic stop, the car will spin around very violently and uncontrollably, and most drivers generally considered that as bad behavior.
Since then... who knows? There may or may not be a proper amount of mechanical brake bias/balance built into the system to work decently without the electronic nanny keeping an eye on it. Or there might not be. One thing ABS is supposed to do (and does if it is working properly) is to allow you to do full unmodulated brake pedal application (panic braking) and still be able to steer. Otherwise you're going to plow straight into something with the wheel turned. The other thing it might be doing is preventing those rears from locking up first and flipping the car around.
Last but not least, in most cases where ABS is set off in conditions that don't warrant it, and it stays on and causes severe issues with normal brake operation, it's just a fault in the system. most of the time the fault is a bad wheel sensor or two. Diagnose it, replace it, no reason to ditch the whole system because a cheap sensor goes bad.
Wait, I just googled up prices. $100 for a wheel sensor? RIDICULOUS!!! YANK ALL THE FUSES!!!
T4R2014
Elite Member
You have a Limited so you definitely have ABS.
JayRolla
New member
Ive found ABS works best with street and all weather tires. Once you install A/T or M/T the ABS does not like it. Mainly due to loss of over all road traction. On my all weather tires abs worked like a champ. Now with muds they always slip in hard pack snow and ice making it pretty dangerous but have learned how to drive on them.
I assumed as much but seeing as how I can leave stripes on the pavement from standing on the pedal and have yet to have it activate you never know. I contribute it to the larger tires and extra weight not allowing the brakes to lock up hard enough to activate ABS.
greenbomer
New member
Abs
I guess I would say to make sure your rear brakes are adjusted up properly, I nailed the brake on a snowy road to see if the rear end would come around and the ABS worked good. I must confess tho I have a switch in the cab to turn off the ABS and the TCS. Four wheel power slide's are a lot of fun!!!
I guess I would say to make sure your rear brakes are adjusted up properly, I nailed the brake on a snowy road to see if the rear end would come around and the ABS worked good. I must confess tho I have a switch in the cab to turn off the ABS and the TCS. Four wheel power slide's are a lot of fun!!!
St Runner
Member
I pulled the ABS fuse on mine the second time it kicked on and have never regretted it. My driving conditions are much different than most of you however.
Speed limit here is 20 (not really enforced) and there has never been snow or ice on these roads. The reason I took it out was low speed panic stops where someone pulled out in front of you. In my case the most important thing is to stop as quickly as possible an avoid an accident. if there is gravel or dirt on the road(and there is a lot of that!) the abs would kick on and I just could not stop. It is much safer for me to possibly lose control, or skid one tire, than to run into someone. Locking up my brakes is not really an issue as I grew up on motorcycles where locking up your front tire was a quick and painful lesson. Just have to remind myself to put it in 4low when backing down those steep driveways.
Speed limit here is 20 (not really enforced) and there has never been snow or ice on these roads. The reason I took it out was low speed panic stops where someone pulled out in front of you. In my case the most important thing is to stop as quickly as possible an avoid an accident. if there is gravel or dirt on the road(and there is a lot of that!) the abs would kick on and I just could not stop. It is much safer for me to possibly lose control, or skid one tire, than to run into someone. Locking up my brakes is not really an issue as I grew up on motorcycles where locking up your front tire was a quick and painful lesson. Just have to remind myself to put it in 4low when backing down those steep driveways.
jeremyc74
Banned
I have my suspicions that part of the issue with the ABS is that the rear brakes aren't working like they're supposed to on a lot of these trucks. I have experienced the ABS issues people have described in this thread, and I know my rear brakes need work.
The rear axle seals, bearings, and brakes are my next big project, and I'm interested to see how much of a difference that makes in the way the ABS reacts.
T4R2014
Elite Member
Possible. I replaced the rear brake shoes and drums on the good 1996 less than 2000 miles ago. Even then, the ABS never acted funny. Those parts only had about 116k on them before getting replaced though.
The other 1996 is still on original drums. The shoes still had some life in them.
Something tells me the underhood module might be a cause. The good 1996 gives off a very strong buzzing when the ABS triggers, while the other one sounds weaker. Before I cycled the ABS numerous times(it sat for a few months before I bought it) , it would almost make a groaning. Now it's a buzzing noise, but it sounds weaker.
Beer_is_so_Awesome
New member
Hahaha, this made my day.
mmendelscfi
New member
Abs
We live up in the hills in the snow belt and for the next several months (if it ever starts snowing) will give our ABS systems a pretty good workout.
Several "challenging" intersections at the bottom of a hill the way to and from our house.
I've watched the various you tubes on static vs. kinetic friction (ABS intended to keep a tire in the static mode) but when you are heading into a stop sign at an intersection with the pedal held to the floor and the wheels clattering and a snow plow coming cross ways it's sometimes hard for my brain to reconcile the "science" with the "reality".
I'm not that smart to begin with.......
We live up in the hills in the snow belt and for the next several months (if it ever starts snowing) will give our ABS systems a pretty good workout.
Several "challenging" intersections at the bottom of a hill the way to and from our house.
I've watched the various you tubes on static vs. kinetic friction (ABS intended to keep a tire in the static mode) but when you are heading into a stop sign at an intersection with the pedal held to the floor and the wheels clattering and a snow plow coming cross ways it's sometimes hard for my brain to reconcile the "science" with the "reality".
I'm not that smart to begin with.......
Tundra/4Runner
New member
I changed the struts on my 2008 yesterday, now the ABS is going F'ing crazy. Thanks for these pics. I'll see if I messed up the sensors.
T4R2014
Elite Member
Just updating, but my mechanic believes that the ABS pump is bad on my used 1996. There are no ABS lights on the dash, and you can hear the pump cycling with the key in the ACC position. The main difference is when the ABS triggers. This used 1996 is way more prone to triggering the ABS than my other 1996 that has never exhibited any ABS problems in 19 years. The pumps do not sound the same when ABS starts working either. This presumed "bad" pump gives off more of a groan than the pump in the good 4Runner which gives off a strong buzzing.
Does anyone know of a place that rebuilds these Aisin ABS pumps? There are used options, but if these pumps wear out after 200k then why risk it with another worn junkyard one?
FWIW, it seems the pump part number changed in 2001, which was when Toyota introduced the VSC system. I'm pretty sure 96-00 is 3-channel ABS while the 01-02 is 4-channel. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Does anyone know of a place that rebuilds these Aisin ABS pumps? There are used options, but if these pumps wear out after 200k then why risk it with another worn junkyard one?
FWIW, it seems the pump part number changed in 2001, which was when Toyota introduced the VSC system. I'm pretty sure 96-00 is 3-channel ABS while the 01-02 is 4-channel. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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12BYotaFan
New member
I agree, the ABS system is terrible.
My '99 makes a terrible grinding popping clicking sound and the system draws so much power it causes my headlights to dim to almost nothing.
This is my second winter with it, and second set of tires. Previous tires were highway tread, good tread depth, lots of siping. Replaced them with falken wildpeak at's in September.
Still had issues stopping in the snow.
First snow fall, damn near slid through three intersections driving around post, because it locked everything up and started me into a slide.
I yanked the fuse for it. Now, I pulse my brakes gently, and can stop.
People forget you can feel the wheel slip/hop through the brake pedal. Once the tires start slipping, you ease up and let them spin back up, then back on the pedal nice and slow.
The ABS in my old jeep cherokee was much the same, but no crazy ****ing noises. Yanked the relay for that, too.
My '99 makes a terrible grinding popping clicking sound and the system draws so much power it causes my headlights to dim to almost nothing.
This is my second winter with it, and second set of tires. Previous tires were highway tread, good tread depth, lots of siping. Replaced them with falken wildpeak at's in September.
Still had issues stopping in the snow.
First snow fall, damn near slid through three intersections driving around post, because it locked everything up and started me into a slide.
I yanked the fuse for it. Now, I pulse my brakes gently, and can stop.
People forget you can feel the wheel slip/hop through the brake pedal. Once the tires start slipping, you ease up and let them spin back up, then back on the pedal nice and slow.
The ABS in my old jeep cherokee was much the same, but no crazy ****ing noises. Yanked the relay for that, too.
T4R2014
Elite Member
That's not part of Toyota's design. Neither of mine nor did any other I've driven has ever done that.
