Help Needed: 15k service today. Some issues, what to ask for, etc.

[optik]

I've scheduled my 15k maintenance for today, in roughly 2.5 hours (1:30 CST). Help and advice would be greatly appreciated.

Background info: 2012 TE with KDSS. Daystar spacer leveling kit in front and rear. Goodyear Duratracs (285/70/17).

• Vertical Shake: I've noticed that, since getting my 285/70/17 Duratracs, I get a noticeable shake (vertical I think not horizontal) when traveling >35mph. Could this be an out of balance tire? How should I ask Toyota to review this issue?
• Passenger Sag: I recently noticed a suspension sag on the PASSENGER side of at least 1/2" (maybe more). I did install a Daystar leveling kit about a month or two before putting my new tires on. How should I ask Toyota to inspect this? My assumption is that they'll point to the leveling kit as the cause of the issue. How can I best rebut so that they actually check for other potential issues?
• General: What other questions or requests should I have for my 15k maintenance, if any?

Thanks in advance everyone... as always, this community has been a huge help (even though my wife blames it for the constant stream of UPS packages). :lmao:

 

[Stifler]

1. YES and Toyota will say the lift and tires are the cause
2. SEARCH this horse has had the shit kicked out of it. NORMAL
3. Nothing unless you have lumbar crunch or hazy headlights:yo:

 

[eddiebx]

Not sure how cool your dealership is, but could you ask them to let you tag along while going on a test drive to show them the vibration you are trying to describe? Otherwise I guess all you really can do is describe it to them just as you did here and hope for the best...as far as the sagging, I am really not sure there's much they can do for you especially since you modified the suspension with the spacers, so don't get your hopes too high. If I recall correctly, I think even the service manual states that up to approximately 1/2"-3/4" lean is "normal". Good luck!

 

[optik]

1. YES and Toyota will say the lift and tires are the cause
2. SEARCH this horse has had the shit kicked out of it. NORMAL
3. Nothing unless you have lumbar crunch or hazy headlights:yo:

Re-1: For 15k service, don't they rotate and balance the tires anyway? Should I wait until AFTER the service to see if the issue goes away?

Re-2: I have searched... and I lurk so often (usually on the couch from my phone when I'm bored with Reddit) that I've seen the question many many times. However, the sag people usually refer to is on the DRIVER side, not the PASSENGER side (from what I've seen, on average, in my opinion, etc.), which is why I specifically asked about PASSENGER side sag. I may be wrong, so I'll search again just to be thorough.

 

[optik]

Not sure how cool your dealership is, but could you ask them to let you tag along while going on a test drive to show them the vibration you are trying to describe? Otherwise I guess all you really can do is describe it to them just as you did here and hope for the best...as far as the sagging, I am really not sure there's much they can do for you especially since you modified the suspension with the spacers, so don't get your hopes too high. If I recall correctly, I think even the service manual states that up to approximately 1/2"-3/4" lean is "normal". Good luck!

Thanks, I'll ask about a tag-along ride. I mentioned this above, but based on the 15k service, should I just wait to mention the vibration until after getting the truck back to see if the issues are resolved by the 15k service items performed?

 

[1engineer]

I've scheduled my 15k maintenance for today, in roughly 2.5 hours (1:30 CST). Help and advice would be greatly appreciated.

Background info: 2012 TE with KDSS. Daystar spacer leveling kit in front and rear. Goodyear Duratracs (285/70/17).

• Vertical Shake: I've noticed that, since getting my 285/70/17 Duratracs, I get a noticeable shake (vertical I think not horizontal) when traveling >35mph. Could this be an out of balance tire? How should I ask Toyota to review this issue?
• Passenger Sag: I recently noticed a suspension sag on the PASSENGER side of at least 1/2" (maybe more). I did install a Daystar leveling kit about a month or two before putting my new tires on. How should I ask Toyota to inspect this? My assumption is that they'll point to the leveling kit as the cause of the issue. How can I best rebut so that they actually check for other potential issues?
• General: What other questions or requests should I have for my 15k maintenance, if any?

Thanks in advance everyone... as always, this community has been a huge help (even though my wife blames it for the constant stream of UPS packages). :lmao:

Unless they did the modifications at the dealership, you won't get anything.
15K service is basically rotate (not balance) tires and check fluids and visually inspect hoses, belts, etc.

Look, you had the lift done, you got new +2 tires, what part of that should the dealer, and not you, be responsible for? Take it to the place that sold you the tires and installed the spacers for resolution.

 

[eddiebx]

Thanks, I'll ask about a tag-along ride. I mentioned this above, but based on the 15k service, should I just wait to mention the vibration until after getting the truck back to see if the issues are resolved by the 15k service items performed?

I really doubt they are going to perform anything that's going to resolve it without asking

From what you describe it sounds like a balancing issue, and I don't think they warranty that, especially considering that you put on aftermarket tires. It's worth a shot to ask though!

 

[optik]

Unless they did the modifications at the dealership, you won't get anything.
15K service is basically rotate (not balance) tires and check fluids and visually inspect hoses, belts, etc.

Look, you had the lift done, you got new +2 tires, what part of that should the dealer, and not you, be responsible for? Take it to the place that sold you the tires and installed the spacers for resolution.

I hope I'm not being misunderstood here... I'm not trying to "fool" the dealership or anything. I'm all about calling things as they are. Just looking for opinions, advice based on experience, etc.

I also know, having worked in the service industry, that there can sometimes be a tendency to point a quick finger at any 3rd party as a potential cause of an issue. I just want to do what I can to see that the real cause is identified; be it mine due to the spacers/tires or the dealer/manufacturer. Just looking for the real answer, not a quick and easy answer... not matter whose responsibility it ends up being.

 

[1engineer]

I hope I'm not being misunderstood here... I'm not trying to "fool" the dealership or anything. I'm all about calling things as they are. Just looking for opinions, advice based on experience, etc.

I also know, having worked in the service industry, that there can sometimes be a tendency to point a quick finger at any 3rd party as a potential cause of an issue. I just want to do what I can to see that the real cause is identified; be it mine due to the spacers/tires or the dealer/manufacturer. Just looking for the real answer, not a quick and easy answer... not matter whose responsibility it ends up being.

Not saying you are fooling or trying to fool someone. Did it shake before you had the new tires put on? Did it sag before you had the spacers installed? If the answer is no to either then your dealership will kindly point that out to you. If you are going to ask for the dealer's opinion on what the causes could be then by all means ask away.

 

[optik]

Not saying you are fooling or trying to fool someone. Did it shake before you had the new tires put on? Did it sag before you had the spacers installed? If the answer is no to either then your dealership will kindly point that out to you. If you are going to ask for the dealer's opinion on what the causes could be then by all means ask away.

No, it didn't shake before... nor did it shake for ~3 weeks after. The shaking started approximately 3 weeks after getting the new tires installed (installed ~April 19th).

No, the right passenger side didn't sag before... nor did it sag immediately after installing the spacers (installed ~March 9th). The sag became noticeable after returning from a camping trip about 2 weeks ago. Didn't do anything crazy when camping, unless driving around with my labradors hanging out of the windows counts.

I guess this is why I'm asking for help/opinions... if either had happened immediately (or even moderately close) to the spacer install or tire change, I'd be quick to blame the changes. I agree that the changes are the most simple (and most probable) causes, but the amount of time between each install and problem is what lowers my confidence in the "obvious install" answers/causes.

 

[eddiebx]

No, it didn't shake before... nor did it shake for ~3 weeks after. The shaking started approximately 3 weeks after getting the new tires installed (installed ~April 19th).

No, the right passenger side didn't sag before... nor did it sag immediately after installing the spacers (installed ~March 9th). The sag became noticeable after returning from a camping trip about 2 weeks ago. Didn't do anything crazy when camping, unless driving around with my labradors hanging out of the windows counts.

I guess this is why I'm asking for help/opinions... if either had happened immediately (or even moderately close) to the spacer install or tire change, I'd be quick to blame the changes. I agree that the changes are the most simple (and most probable) causes, but the amount of time between each install and problem is what lowers my confidence in the "obvious install" answers/causes.

Have you tried taking a quick peek at your wheels to see if any of the balancing weights might have fallen off? If not maybe look at the inner barrels to see if there are any missing stick-on weights.

As far as the sagging, I'm still leaning towards possibly normal? I think we're all more alert about such issues after we go off-road and come back looking for things wrong with it . One idea is also to take a look at the spacers to make sure they appear to be all seated properly still.

I know you're looking for suggestions on how to approach the dealership, and I'm giving you suggestions to diagnose the issues yourself; but I think it would help you to diagnose it a bit yourself so you go in with a bit more knowledge in case they try to dance around and blame your mods.

 

[453030]

I'm no expert on a Daystar spacer kit, but unless that makes the truck a bit unstable, you should be able to get those Duratracs dialed in. Maybe a weight came loose from one of the wheels? I just changed from 285 DTs to 285 MT/Rs, and it is so smooth at 80 I really cannot believe it. I expect some little shake in the wheel and it is just smooth smooth. My Duras were the same. I would have your tire shop examine the balance of each tire to eliminate that as a potential problem.

 

[optik]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I asked the dealer about the vibration, and their 32 year service vet checked my girl out, took her for a drive, and said that technically (and from a "safety perspective"), everything checks out fine.

Rather than point to the spacers or tires, he thought the vibration I'm feeling might be related to turbulence from my dual set of Yakima Mako saddles and Showboat mounted on the roof. Not only that, but I got quite a few ego-inflating complements on my T4R.

That being said, tomorrow I'll be looking at the weights and I'll be calling the shop that I got my tires from (to check balancing).

As far as the sag goes, after getting her back from the dealership, I went around and took a bunch of measurements... And it looks like my right (rear) side is sagging somewhere around 3/4".

I don't think my driveway is perfectly level, so I'll take more official measurements tomorrow on a level surface and report back.

Thanks again everyone.

 

[optik]

Well, I couldn't take it... So I put on my head-lamp and went look at the weights on the wheels.

Driver front: No adhesive, no evidence of weights.
Driver rear: Adhesive but no weights... Looks like there were 4-5 weights there.

Passenger front: Some weights (5-6), adhesive for 2-3 missing weights.
Passenger rear: 7-8 weights, no adhesive indicating missing weights.

I'm not sure if or how many weights were there before getting the new tires (I assume any existing weights would be removed when mounting different tires anyway), but the semi-sticky adhesive residue next to existing weights is suspect. I'll be checking with the tire shop tomorrow for sure.

 

[Qjake]

So let me see if I got this right. Your complaint is a shake/vibration at speeds above 35 mph. A tech with 32 years experience takes a look, he see's you have 285 Duratrac's, he also see's you have a Yakima rack. With a straight face he points to the rack as the cause of your shake? Really?

DuraTrac's are notoriously difficult to balance and to keep balanced. I've had mine for approx 17k miles and have had them balanced 3 times due to shakes.

Do yourself a favor.Take your truck to a reputable independent shop and ask that they remove all the old weights and balance them correctly

 

[Stifler]

I knew my factory roof rails were causing problems!:gun6:

 

[optik]

So let me see if I got this right. Your complaint is a shake/vibration at speeds above 35 mph. A tech with 32 years experience takes a look, he see's you have 285 Duratrac's, he also see's you have a Yakima rack. With a straight face he points to the rack as the cause of your shake? Really?

DuraTrac's are notoriously difficult to balance and to keep balanced. I've had mine for approx 17k miles and have had them balanced 3 times due to shakes.

Do yourself a favor.Take your truck to a reputable independent shop and ask that they remove all the old weights and balance them correctly

Agreed, and thanks.

Any thoughts on the areas where it appears weights were at one point (sticky adhesive residue, weight outline)? Is it common to throw weights, or more likely that the person balancing just sloppily removed a few?

 

[eddiebx]

Agreed, and thanks.

Any thoughts on the areas where it appears weights were at one point (sticky adhesive residue, weight outline)? Is it common to throw weights, or more likely that the person balancing just sloppily removed a few?

One reason why there would be residue left over and not a weight is if the tire guy who rebalanced the new duratracs did not clean off the original weights' tape residue.

Do you know if they rotated your tires at the 15k service? If the same exact shake you are feeling is still there after a rotation, then either all 4 wheels are out of balance or it's something else other than wheel balance.

Do you know what kind of balancing machine your guys used to balance the duratracs? I have read they are hard to balance by incompetent people and require extra care. With that said, my tire guys balanced it perfectly on the first try, so I think they just need to know what they are doing to get it right.

I would not be so quick to rule out the turbulence idea, I know it sounds a bit ridiculous, but at this point the only two people whom have physically seen/felt this shake are OP and his mechanic; rest of us here are just web wrenching

I have no clue how "severe" the shaking is and/or how sensitive you perceive things, so who really knows what the true cause is. Might not hurt to pull off the rack if you've got nothing else better to do!

 

[Qjake]

Agreed, and thanks.

Any thoughts on the areas where it appears weights were at one point (sticky adhesive residue, weight outline)? Is it common to throw weights, or more likely that the person balancing just sloppily removed a few?

It's not uncommon at all to see glue left where there was once a weight, also it's not uncommon for a weight to come off especially if the tech didn't clean the area where the weight was applied.

Again. I would take it to a reputable shop, not the dealership for balancing. Ask that they remove all the old weights prior to balance then politely explain that this is your baby and ask that they take extra care to balance your tires properly.

Good luck!!

Oh and you could always remove the rack to satisfy yourself that it's not to blame