Help Needed: Bouncy Ride - 5100’s and Rear Spacers

[honda250xtitan]

did you torque the front end components in the air? the UCA and LCA bushings will bind. They need to be torqued with the weight of the vehicle on the ground. That can also cause bouncing like its a spring issue.

I've also seen a proper alignment help everything settle. This is stuff i've learned from wrenching on a titan back in the day, but its the same style front end.

 

[woodsby]

You know, I did not. I pulled the two bolts at the LCA on either side of the ball joint, loosened the cam bolts and gently dropped the LCA to pull the shocks/springs.
When complete, I jacked the LCA’s back up and put everything together and torqued - some weight on the suspension, but certainly not full vehicle weight.
I guess I should jack up the frame, loosen the bolts, retighten to wrench tight, then lower the vehicle to the ground and torque?

 

[woodsby]

So, to follow up on this, I have done:

Replaced rear OEM springs and 2” spacer with OME 2895E
Replaced rear OEM sway bar links with Skyjacker extended links; used energy poly bushings on the links
Replaced front OEM springs with OME 2884 and dropped the 5100 circlip to zero lift
Installed Dobinsons front sway bar relocation bracket
I had a 1/2 top out spacer on the fronts - I got rid of that.
Dropped/extended all bump stops (I know this is superficial for my problem)

On the short ride I just took, it’s a massive improvement. No more squishy bouncing. No more uncomfortable leaning into dips in the road.

Have an alignment and UCA replacement scheduled for tomorrow - hopefully that makes the highway wandering go away, and improves my camber as well. I’d have done the UCA myself, but the shop didn’t want much to change them and I don’t have a convenient second set of hands to work the long bolt out.


I’ll post back in a couple days. Thanks to all that have helped.

 

[2021nightshade4x4]

So spacers are a no go for anyone thinking about trying them? Did you have X-REAS in place with the spacers?


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[woodsby]

I did for a couple of days, and it certainly felt better with XREAS than with the 5100’s, but a couple of my coworkers commented that the truck looked like it was bouncing too much front to back, and that got into my head. And I read so many positive things about the 5100’s and some negative things about XREAS. In hindsight, XREAS is a good system, but inability to maintain the system kind of pisses me off.
I will say that preloading OEM springs definitely feels worse than stiffer lift springs. That said, I do keep a minimum of 200 lbs extra in the rear and about 70-80 lbs extra under the hood.
Also, keep in mind, to keep XREAS, I’m pretty sure you have to install a shock spacer in the rear as well. I used the Revtek kit cheap off Mercari, but that shock spacer looks cheesy.

 

[woodsby]

Following up... got my UCA's replaced and got a proper alignment today - camber and toe close to 0, and caster around 4.5. I'm happy to say I love driving this truck again. Looks great and rides great.

Just have to take a heat gun to the little mud flaps and put the skid plates back on.

 

[mrblah]

Following up... got my UCA's replaced and got a proper alignment today - camber and toe close to 0, and caster around 4.5. I'm happy to say I love driving this truck again. Looks great and rides great.

Just have to take a heat gun to the little mud flaps and put the skid plates back on.

im glad you got this all resolved, now go out and enjoy that bad boy!!!

 

[85GT-79FJ40]

reading this from the beginning I was thinking to myself that the XREAS trucks have to have a really soft spring considering how the shocks do a lot to control sway so the combo with 5100's and stock springs had to be interesting. I have eibachs and 5100's in mine with JBA arms and poly sway bar bushings. On 285/70/17's. It's no slot car but it handles FAR better than it should.

 

[honda250xtitan]

Hi, just installed bilstein 5100’s set at 2.5 in the front and a 2” spacer in the back on my 2021 Limited. I kept the stock springs, and installed Toyo AT3’s 275/60R20 on the stock wheels. Now the car feels considerably bouncy both front to back and side to side. This isn’t a stiff bounce… it’s a soft rocking bounce. When I pull down on the roof rack to one side, it seems to rock side to side at least two times (two times noticeably plus some minor residual bounce). A couple of notes:
1. My caster in the front is low ~1.4 - scheduled for an alignment with a shop that knows an alignment is more than just getting the toe right (don’t ask).
2. My tire pressure was around 37 psi when I checked this AM. I’m guessing this is high for the larger tires, but again, the bounce feels soft, not stiff.
3. I have not yet installed extended rear sway bar links and poly bushings or the front sway bar relocation kit - still waiting on those. Still on factory sway bar end links/bushings in the rear.
4. Maybe this is normal - never lifted a vehicle before. Forgive my ignorance here.

Any thoughts on what the issue is? Sway bar, track bar, springs, something else? Most of what I read seems to indicate a stiffer ride after a lift.

I’ve noticed a couple of times the front end seems to sink a bit low if I’m going downhill and turning into a parking lot and hit a dip or bump as I turn in. One time I heard an unnerving clunk.

Any help is appreciated.

Edit: I’ll add that I have around 200 lbs of gear in the back, and an added battery under the hood on the passenger side along with a bunch of cabling. Although I never noticed this added weight with the stock tires/suspension.

are your rear bilsteins long enough to accommodate the rear spacers.

 

[honda250xtitan]

Following up... got my UCA's replaced and got a proper alignment today - camber and toe close to 0, and caster around 4.5. I'm happy to say I love driving this truck again. Looks great and rides great.

Just have to take a heat gun to the little mud flaps and put the skid plates back on.

oh NVM. looks perfect!

 

[woodsby]

Thanks. I’m really pleased with the ride. Just hope I can get rid of the rub. I’m guessing I can, but if not, it looks like I have a little wiggle room in the caster.

 

[clin9383]

So after all that would you say you stick with your current setup or if you had to do it all over with the knowledge you have now to replace xreas, what other complete system would you go with?

 

[woodsby]

That’s a tough question. XREAS at stock height certainly felt like the best ride. I read/saw that several people really like the Revtek 3/2 system and I figured it was cheap enough to do. That said, I did not like it and ended up ripping out every piece of that system one by one and replacing pretty much the entire suspension $100-$150/wheel at a time. It probably would have been wiser to go with a complete suspension upgrade kit as the cost difference wouldn’t have been that much in the end… and I likely would have justified getting slightly better quality equipment for a little bit more.
I’m an electrician, not a mechanic, but as far as I can tell, playing with the suspension involves a LOT of trial and error to find the right ride for the specific driver. Electrical work is definitely more predictable. I’m sure I’ll keep making changes over the next few years, but after tearing apart the suspension 3 times, I (and especially my wife) am just happy to wrap this up for a while.
If I were to do it again, I probably would have stuck with 275/55’s and a 2/1 or 1.5/1 lift. I don’t off-road (yet), but I wanted a little more clearance since I do work on some rough jobsites and we do a lot of camping, some pretty backcountry. And I did a bit of damage to my last truck when I built my house… mostly due to lower clearance (and me not walking around the vehicle before jumping in and taking off). Hopefully the front camera and higher clearance will help there.

 

[woodsby]

Another update… addressed the mud flap rub, but found another serious rub. While pulling into my garage, with my steering wheel turned almost full lock to the left, my passenger tire rubs the sway bar and is danger close to the UCA. It doesn’t happen all the time, but in a specific spot in my usual approach to the garage. At that spot, the passenger side is a little lower than the driver side. So, while in full lock and in contact with the sway bar, I put it in park, got under the truck and removed the sway bar relocation kit. While in that same spot, I was then able to slide a sheet of paper between tire and sway bar, but the credit card was a little tough.
While still parked, I happened to notice with the steering full lock to the left, my left wheel was extreme positive camber, which I read is normal when turning with higher caster. I’m wondering if the higher caster is also causing my right wheel to go negative camber enough to touch the sway bar and possibly the UCA.
I am at 4.48 left and 4.65 right caster, with SPC UCA’s.

I’m having a tough time finding alignment specs for the 2021 Limited, but the alignment report showed my caster within range (2.47-4.75 left, 2.67-4.96 right).

Anyone have any idea if my caster values are too high and if so, can this be causing my sway bar rub?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[tsfarling]

You'll want to get a wheel spacer or new rims to push the tires out away from that UCA

 

[woodsby]

You'll want to get a wheel spacer or new rims to push the tires out away from that UCA

I wasn’t rubbing the sway bar at all before I had the SPC UCA’s on. That’s why I’m wondering if the significantly higher caster is causing more dramatic camber at full lock. It appears the shop set the SPC’s to +3 caster and didn’t really try to get any caster adjustment out of the lowers.

I am so close to the body mount as it is, I’m concerned that with spacers I’ll definitely be rubbing there. I’d like to evaluate other possibilities first… especially since this wasn’t happening with stock UCA’s.

 

[tsfarling]

Oh okay, gotcha. Yeah, I would take it back to the shop and let them know its rubbing. Should be a lot of room to move around with aftermarket UCAs

 

[woodsby]

Oh okay, gotcha. Yeah, I would take it back to the shop and let them know its rubbing. Should be a lot of room to move around with aftermarket UCAs

That’s my plan, but I am hoping someone can chime in on my theory/question that the much higher caster (1.8 on stock, 4.65 on SPC’s) is causing significant enough camber on turns to rub. Would be good to have some ideas/suggestions before going back in.