help with diagnostic

[4x4yota]

i have been having starting issues with my 4runner

specs
94 SR5
3.0 V6
auto
220k miles

For a while to start her i would have to hold the key for a few seconds before it would crank over and start fairly quick. Then got to the point it wouldn't start at all but i could come back in a few minutes-hours and it would start like stated before.

Now she will not start with out being jumped and she starts right away, no having to hold the key or more than a crank or two. I took the battery in and it tested good the starter also passed so i replaced the connectors , starter cable, ground cable and still wont start with out a jump.I

If I put the battery on a slow 2 amp charge for a couple hours she will start fine but eventually goes back to no start... my alt/charge gauge show everything is working normally. so this leads me to still think bad battery?

I am stumped please any advice would be much appreciated!

 

[KidVermicious]

Get a cheap voltmeter and check the battery voltage after she's been sitting overnight. Should be 12.5 volts or more with the truck off. You needing a charge or a jumpstart makes me think bad battery too.

If the battery has good voltage, there's some other stuff it could be, but get that out of the way first.

 

[77'911]

You might take a voltmeter and check the ignition switch. I had to replace ours a while back, along with the starter. Watch out, as sometimes those starters will pass for OK, when they are not.
regards

 

[4x4yota]

ok thanks guys... maybe Ill look into rebuilding my starter with new contacts

 

[4x4yota]

went out to try and work on the 4runner and my volt meter is died so that was a bust but I pulle dnad checked the starter relay and it was a little loose so I pulled it checked fine and plugged it back in and she actually turned over and started. fixed? I hope but she still hesitated before cranking over but did turn over with out a jump

i guess tomorrow when I leave for work i hope she starts i miss driving her...

 

[4x4yota]

so went to work this morning and same issue would crank over so I used the wifes car to jump it and she started after a few cranks and made a horrible clunking noise that didnt last long.

drove to work ran and drove great got a flat tire along the way but made it. then when leaving she cranked over a started right away no issue so I am lost an hoping that maybe sitting for a bit maybe just drained the battery and that short drives were never enought to keep it charged?

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Try a new relay? The old one was loose you said? Over time if its been loose it could go bad.

I would also check the ignition switch.

When you say you have to hold the key a few seconds, what do you mean? Does it try to turn over and you have to hold the key (Extended Crank situation) or does it just not do anything at all and after a couple seconds it fires up?

 

[4x4yota]

i have to hold the key and nothing happens for a few seconds and then it cranks over and starts... but after driving it today I made a couple stops and it cranked over and started right away which leads me to believe bad battery

 

[77'911]

i have to hold the key and nothing happens for a few seconds and then it cranks over and starts... but after driving it today I made a couple stops and it cranked over and started right away which leads me to believe bad battery

That's exactly what ours was doing. The contacts in the starters are so bad, our local dealer stocks the parts(was told they are $50), and they don't usually stock tune up parts on the shelf. Since our truck is driven by my father(read: over 75 years old) and I don't want him stuck anywhere. I opted to just make a bullet proof repair and do the ignition switch and a reman starter from Toyota. It's amazing how quick it fires off now. You might consider going through and clean the battery contacts and ground circuits. This has definitely helped us over the years as these trucks have aged and corrosion has set in to some of the plating. Best of luck with it.
regards

 

[4x4yota]

so had a couple days of good starts and then today back to the old habits going to get a new relay and rebuild the start and maybe just replace the battery since its old anyways

 

[Anthony1]

replace the brushes on the starter and you should be good to go....:thumb:

 

[RAD4Runner]

replace the brushes on the starter and you should be good to go....:thumb:

Oh NO!
Don't jump to conclusion, and just replace everything until you have thoroughly verified it is really the problem. Just because others replaced this and that does not mean you should replace those same parts on your own truck. Listen to others' experience but verify if you really have same problem.

Get a cheap voltmeter and check the battery voltage after she's been sitting overnight. Should be 12.5 volts or more...

Agree.

When you have the starting problem, do you hear/hear reg starter relay click? If not, you have a problem from battery, through ignition switch, to starter relay coil, through clutch safety switch to ground.

If starter relay clicks, but solenoid does not, that would indicate a problem from fuse block, to starter relay contacts, to starter solenoid coil, to ground via starter body. This could be because of high resistance in circuit.

If both starter relay and starter solenoid click/clunk, but no crank, solenoid contacts may be bad. Now is the time to take out the starter to inspect/rebuild.

Divide the problem in 2 parts. This test will isolate whether problem is from your starter solenoid and downstream to starter motor, OR from solenoid and upstream, to starter relay, clutch safety switch, to ignition switch.

If it does crank consistently using above test, chances are problem is upstream. You may have too much resistance from fuse block, to starter relay to solenoid connector. This causes too much voltage drop so less voltage ends up at the solenoid coil, ant able to energize it. Remember that it takes around 12 Amps to energize the starter solenoid.

Keep us posted, then we'll go from there. Posting schematic of your starter system would greatly help because some of us who could help may not have same model as yours.

 

[Anthony1]

I'm just going by my experience...... take it or leave it......

 

[mistersnowman97]

hit the starter with a hammer

 

[4x4yota]

tried the hammer trick doesn't work...

been driving her more often and she seems to be getting better i redid some connectors and seems to be making a difference still take a few before she cranks over but she does start on her own now but still on the look out for the starter relay and a starter rebuild kit and possibly a new battery

i am having trouble finding a wiring diagram but the truck is a 94 3.0 V6 auto SR5 if that is any help

 

[giro]

I like Rad4Runner's tips. That's the way to do it.

As a side thing about it happening occasionally, but when it does it sounds like it's always first thing in the morning, that could be a temperature or battery voltage (which potentially is also temp related) thing. When my starter went out, it was a slow thing. One winter it stopped starting consistently, so I replaced the battery (it was time). The next winter the same thing started happening. I replaced the battery again (under warranty) but it still happened. That's when I looked deeper and decided it was likely the starter. After replacing that, it's been starting fine every time, even after sitting a week or down near 0° F. Basically as the starter died it needed a little more power. A new battery or warmer temps gave that for a while, but it was still on it's way out.

Same thing with both the relay for the rear window motor and and now the rear window motor itself. The relay got to the point where it only worked with the truck on, so it had a little more voltage. And then even that was spotty. Now 7 years later, the window motor is on it's way out. It started really crawling last year during ski season, but magically worked fine all summer long. But when we had a couple sub-freezing days, it was crawling again. It's time to buy a new replacement, or try swapping it out with the rear left one, so that I have tailgate usage at the slopes.

Follow Rad4Runner's steps if you can (though on our gen of 4runners the starter is a known replacement part, and if it hasn't been done then at 220k and 20 years you're due). But those examples might help give you a reason for the sporadic behavior, no matter which part in the system is on it's way out.

 

[crazy gringo]

It seems some people forget that these things came with an automatic transmission also, such as your and mine and they have alot of experiance with 4 runners and i`m not knocking the advice which is very sound. but you have a neutral safety switch on the transmission that keeps you from starting the car in gear and operates the revers lights and a couple of other things also. I had a similar problem and replaced a few things(ie.battery, starter contacts, starter ,cables,relays,cable ends,ignition switch) come to find out it was the safety switch. just my 2 cents

 

[Robmills72]

Had a similar problem a couple years back, try taking a wire brush/pocket knife to the battery poles and all of your contact hoops to make sure it's not corrosion causing a bad connection. I know for mine it was nearly a 6 year old battery and I ruined my favorite knife because there was so much caked on there.

 

[zeak]

When you say

Then got to the point it wouldn't start at all but i could come back in a few minutes-hours and it would start.

Do you mean it just cranks and cranks or has no power at all?
Mine did something similar with no power sometimes and power at others.
I had my son sit in the driver seat with the key to the (on) position.
Went under the hood and started moving wires until the dash lit back up. It turned out to be the negative wire from the battery to the fuse box next to it with a very bad connection.

 

[RAD4Runner]

I had a similar problem and replaced a few things(ie.battery, starter contacts, starter ,cables,relays,cable ends,ignition switch) come to find out it was the safety switch. just my 2 cents

To keep it simple, our choices are:

1. Understand the system then, VERIFY, VERIFY, VERIFY, or
2. Replace part A, try again. Same problem? Replace part B, Same problem? Replace part C, Same problem? Replace part D..Same problem? repeat until you have replaced the whole truck.

LOL!