Help with Rear axle Seal leak!!

[fightman80]

As the title states.... The d@mn rear driver side seal is leaking again!! Should I replace the bearing?? Could the seal have blown because the bodyshop had used and seized my e-brake??

I have read BigFish's thread inside and out, and have also looked over DrCoffee's thread as well. Both recommend getting the bearing replaced, and one recommend's moving the retainer 1mm and flipping it backwards, in order to get more of a matting surface for the seal to sit on.

I have to say, I like what DrCoffee has to say about moving the retainer, and would rather not replace the bearing, unless it's absolutely necessary. I don't like the idea of bringing the axle in to a shop to have the parts installed for me. I'm trying to save money right now, as I'm not working much these days....

I'm just wondering if ANYBODY has come to the realization that this issue can be caused by the E-brake seizing, and overheating the axle tube. When I mean seizing, I mean it get's stuck on the locked position, and driven for 30 miles!!

I realize that this is a re-post to my original thread... but haven't gotten many replies to the other thread, and thinking maybe it's because the thread title is a little ambiguous???

Thanks goes out to DrCoffee for his replies during the past 2 days, and I look forward to hearing from the rest of you!

Rob.

 

[aha2988]

reversing that collar will certainly fix your seal issue as it provides a new surface for the new axle seal.

The reason you'll likely have to replace the hub bearing is that you have to press the axle shaft off the collar. there isn't really a way to just press the collar off you have to use a device to attach to the hub bearing and press the axle out through everything at once.

Typically when you do this the outer bearing of the hub bearing assembly doesn't like to hang onto the hub bearing and come off while the pressing process is taking place so you wind up damaging the hub bearing assembly just to get the collar off. you have to use a cut off wheel on an angle grinder to cut the outer bearing cup off the axle shaft. Replace the hub bearing assembly then reinstall the collar in the reversed orientation from factory to provide the new mating surface.

I'm having the same issue I'm just tired of working with my rear axle at the moment as I've replaced the axle shafts and hub bearing's last fall when i installed lockers. Unfortunately I didn't become aware of the axle seal surface situation with a new axle seal until after i had everything installed and noticed that the brand new seal is letting oil seep out.

I'll have to pull both shafts again... press both axle shafts out again probably purchase new hub bearing assemblies unless I get lucky and they actually press off without breaking. just to reverse that stupid collar.

I've heard that aftermarket axle seals have a tighter sealing cup compared to OEM so maybe just going with a timken seal opposed to OEM may fix the issue without reversing the collar purely speculation on that difference in seal option.

 

[Drcoffee]

I know you keep saying you want to do it on the cheap and you can. Honestly, if you use a dremmel with cutoff disc to remove the inner retainer and carry the new retainer and axle to a parts store with a machine shop, it should not cost you more than $20 each side to press on the new retainer. Just tell him where to place it.

Parts
retainer $12
press work $20
OEM seal $8
x2 for L&R

you can't do it much cheaper than that. Just call around for pricing. Down here in the lower 48 CARQUEST does press work and machine work.

Just a side note. apply a bead of gear oil resistant RTV on the joints between the axle and retainer and seal and housing. That way if you scarred the axle or housing, it wont leak past it.

 

[aha2988]

I know you keep saying you want to do it on the cheap and you can. Honestly, if you use a dremmel with cutoff disc to remove the inner retainer and carry the new retainer and axle to a parts store with a machine shop, it should not cost you more than $20 each side to press on the new retainer. Just tell him where to place it.

Parts
retainer $12
press work $20
OEM seal $8
x2 for L&R

you can't do it much cheaper than that. Just call around for pricing. Down here in the lower 48 CARQUEST does press work and machine work.

Just a side note. apply a bead of gear oil resistant RTV on the joints between the axle and retainer and seal and housing. That way if you scarred the axle or housing, it wont leak past it.

foghorn leghorn:"that there I say I say boy" is the best idea I've heard of to fix this issue. I've got the press looks like ill just have to order some retainer collars

 

[fightman80]

I think I'm going to look for a local machine shop.....

 

[wjamyers]

bumping the latest thread to discuss this issue....

I have this problem again after having it done when I bought it 2 years 9 months ago. a small local place charged me $250.00 labor + $40.00 parts.

I'm getting ready to do it myself but waiting on tools, parts and a non-workday, meanwhile still driving it 10 miles back and forth to work.

QUESTION:
Am I risking destroying my rear diff this way? It's been about two weeks and I plan to do the job this weekend. I'm babying it as much as I can.

Please advise. thanks.

 

[fightman80]

I don't believe this is a huge concern.... unless you're spewing enormous amounts of gear oil out of the axle tube. To be safe.... you could keep topping off the rear diff with fluid... until you get a chance to do the work....

I'm pulling my brakes again today, to check mine. Then most likely gonna order a bearing and set an appointment with the same shop to do the bearing press for me.....

Good luck with your repair!

 

[aha2988]

I wound up re-doing the process of replacing the hub bearing, bought two new hub bearings, two new retaining collars, and replaced the outer oil retaining gasket that gets pressed against the back of the wheel flange with the wheel studs.

I got the passenger side done a week or so ago, kinda been procrastinating the driver side as i'll have to make a new bearing puller for the mirrored bolt pattern of the driver side hub bearing.

no more leaks on the passenger side though finally got it wrapped up tight.
the driver side is only leaking into the wheel bearing currently it hasn't produced a problem other than the bearing going bad. It will last until I replace it in the near future though.

 

[Forrrrest]

Yes you have to replace the bearings. They're sealed bearings, meaning when your axle seal starts leaking the gear oil will push the grease out of the bearing causing it to fail. If you just replace the seal this will not solve your problem. Just a temporary fix. Because there will be play in your axle caused by a bad bearing allowing gear oil to seep through again.....do it once, do it right.....

 

[aha2988]

Yes you have to replace the bearings. They're sealed bearings, meaning when your axle seal starts leaking the gear oil will push the grease out of the bearing causing it to fail. If you just replace the seal this will not solve your problem. Just a temporary fix. Because there will be play in your axle caused by a bad bearing allowing gear oil to seep through again.....do it once, do it right.....

yeah I failed to replace the retaining collars and instead reused the old ones after replacing one hub bearing and both axle seals. the old retaining collars had a groove worn in where the old seal would ride as the axle rotated. Thus causing the leak and me having to do double the work. live and learn I always say lol

 

[wjamyers]

Yes you have to replace the bearings. They're sealed bearings, meaning when your axle seal starts leaking the gear oil will push the grease out of the bearing causing it to fail. If you just replace the seal this will not solve your problem. Just a temporary fix. Because there will be play in your axle caused by a bad bearing allowing gear oil to seep through again.....do it once, do it right.....

what a thoroughly stupid design.

"here kid, here are some poorly engineered axle seals destined to leak. once they do, they'll destroy your bearings. enjoy the truck! " - Toyota

I really don't get this. so basically, all the threads about "just change the seals" are bullcrap? everytime the seals leak they destroy the bearings? this is the very first i've read of it after reading all of the latest threads on on the issue.

out:

 

[wjamyers]

I don't believe this is a huge concern.... unless you're spewing enormous amounts of gear oil out of the axle tube. To be safe.... you could keep topping off the rear diff with fluid... until you get a chance to do the work....

I'm pulling my brakes again today, to check mine. Then most likely gonna order a bearing and set an appointment with the same shop to do the bearing press for me.....

Good luck with your repair!

thanks, although, now I'm rethinking everything now that i've been told the bearings must be done too.

 

[mliebal]

At risk of putting some one in the wrong direction, I had this issue on my 96 4runner. I replaced all the parts and got leaking seals again. I ended up pulling axle, popping the bearing seal out, cleaned and repacked it (it was like 1000 miles old) with new grease, but on the new inboard seal I popped the retainer spring out, unscrewed it, took 1/2" of length of and reinstalled. Its been 100k miles of driving with no issues. I certainly did wonder on every trip whether the bearing was going to last, lol!

 

[Forrrrest]

what a thoroughly stupid design.

"here kid, here are some poorly engineered axle seals destined to leak. once they do, they'll destroy your bearings. enjoy the truck! " - Toyota

I really don't get this. so basically, all the threads about "just change the seals" are bullcrap? everytime the seals leak they destroy the bearings? this is the very first i've read of it after reading all of the latest threads on on the issue.

out:

Yes think about it, it is a sealed bearing packed with grease not oil. When the seal fails it will have to go somewhwre and it travels through the bearing and taking some of that valuable grease with it. Do they always fail immediately after a seal goes bad, no. But they will over time. You said you've replaced them before correct?

 

[BrianSD_42]

I'm just wondering if ANYBODY has come to the realization that this issue can be caused by the E-brake seizing, and overheating the axle tube. When I mean seizing, I mean it get's stuck on the locked position, and driven for 30 miles!!

Fightman, did the above happen to you?

 

[wjamyers]

Yes think about it, it is a sealed bearing packed with grease not oil. When the seal fails it will have to go somewhwre and it travels through the bearing and taking some of that valuable grease with it. Do they always fail immediately after a seal goes bad, no. But they will over time. You said you've replaced them before correct?

no.

I have no idea if the bearings were ever replaced. still, since this is only a two hour job, I may just do the seals for now.

 

[aha2988]

no.

I have no idea if the bearings were ever replaced. still, since this is only a two hour job, I may just do the seals for now.

your going to have to replace the retaining collars that the axle seals, seal to as well. you can do this without removing the bearing by simply using a cut off wheel to cut the old retainer off, then you just have to press the new retainer on. this will fix the axle seal leak. Once you pull your axle/park brake assembly you will be able to feel any play in the bearing if there is any. This would indicate a bad hub bearing and note that you should replace that if you find it to be bad.

 

[RC57]

... Once you pull your axle/park brake assembly you will be able to feel any play in the bearing if there is any. This would indicate a bad hub bearing and note that you should replace that if you find it to be bad.

Even new bearings will wobble around a bit when the axle shaft/brake assembly is out of the axle housing. Play should be measured with it all bolted together. Something like 0.7mm axial play is allowed.

 

[fightman80]

Well.... gotta think about getting it done now..... just lost my job today...

 

[LittleCaesar]

Awwww man Fightman, after all you went through with training and so forth last year. I hope you got some severance out of it at least. My buddy has lost his job as a ship pipefitter in Virginia due to Congressional budget cuts in the US in January; he just landed a new one in Alabama that is paying him 35% more than what he was making. It stinks though that he has to move. Good luck with the job hunt.

I have only replaced the inner seals, and been lucky enough to never have either bearing go south on me, yet that is.