How often do you rotate your tires?

[zig]

Every 7,500 on my Mich's. Toyota does it for free and gives me free tires for life as long as I keep it up. The wife is usually in the area anyways, so she picks up an oil filter while she's at it. The oil filter will probably stop soon though as I think that I might switch.

Going on 70K and tires still look great.

 

[EDGE]

Oh yes, the M3 you had no intentions on keeping I did like your comments on that board, I found them funny but many of the members where just way to serious to enjoy any of your comedic remarks

 

[PMac]

It doesn't seem to me, that there is a significant advantage to rotating tires more often than at half of their expected life.

 

[EDGE]

It doesn't seem to me, that there is a significant advantage to rotating tires more often than at half of their expected life.

What do you mean, tires don't have any real life, it's all just a guess on how long they last, so if the tires are supposedly 40k tires is what your saying, leave them as is for the 1st 20 then rotate, the tires depending on driving conditions and vehicle could be very uneven or bald

 

[kimboy]

With those that are rotating so often (less than 7K mile intervals) I assume you are using the 5 tire rotation method?

I have a 04 Sport 4x4 and performed my first rotation/balance at costco 14K. This is before they changed their policy. From here on in though, I do not anticipate rotating and balancing them until 30K miles. I will however make sure the weights are the sticker kind that goes inside the wheel well.

 

[TechWrench]

I rotate about every 6k when I switch from one set of tires/wheels to the other, and as long as there are no vibration problems I don't worry about the balance. I do a 5 wheel rotation on the OEM Bridgestone H/Ts (summer), and a 4 wheel rotation on the Bridgestone REVOs (winter). At 24k, no unusual wear problem on either set.

 

[EDGE]

Don't they rotate everytime you drive

 

[MicaBlue03]

Is there really a benefit to rotating the spare?

I'd like some advice on this issue. The 5 tire rotation would seem like a good idea in terms of evening out the wear all around (better for the 4WD system, I guess) and getting maximum wear out of all tires, including the spare.

However IIRC, the recommended 5 tire rotation swaps 3 tires on one side (with the spare) and 2 tires on the other side. Always the same side.

So it seems that you wouldn't get any more wear out of the set of 5 tires, since you'd change the tires when the first ones wore out, presumably on the 2 tire rotation side.

And that brings up a reason to do a 4 tire rotation instead. Assume you were doing the 5 tire rotation and had a tire fail completely (a cut or a bad hole) at maybe 10k-20k miles and the failure was on the 2 tire rotation side. If you wanted to just replace the failed tire with the spare, that might be a bad idea since that spare had been rotating the other direction when it was in service on the other side of the vehicle previously. I've heard you're not supposed to change the way a tire rotates after using it for a few hundred miles or more in one direction.

The fix, I guess, would be to go to a tire shop and have them turn the tire around on the rim, but if there is no benefit to a 5 tire rotation, why go to the trouble. Just keep the original spare as the spare always, unless you change tire size.

Perhaps I'm missing something here; I'd appreciate some clarification or user experience. I have some tires that need rotating!

 

[Kanab]

You can reverse the direction of travel on these tires. Your thinking about some high performance tires that are one direction only tires. The reason I don't get the spare involved in the rotation is that I got the Michelin Cross Terrain on my 4runner and after I wearout this set I will buy 3 new Michelin Cross Terrains and use the best wornout Cross Terrain as the spare. That way I only have to buy 3 new tires instead of 4.

 

[ToolmanJohn]

In a circle on tire rotation

I rotate the order in a circular pattern. If you look at the truck from the top down, I rotate clockwise, including the spare. My tires are not uni-directional, and neither are my wheels, which are symmetrical. A balanced tire is a balanced tire, and it's direction of rotation means nothing if the tread pattern is not uni-directional.

So the reasons for including the spare is so that when I have to someday replace the tires, I can easily justify 5 new tires when switching brands, or sizes. They will all be relatively worn the same amount, except for the tire that was originally the spare., which will be slightly less worn, but barely.

There are some types of tires which are supposed to be rotated in only one direction, and that's why it's safe for Toyota to show the spare being rotated on one side of the vehicle. I don't ever remember seeing a truck tire that was uni-directional, but a lot of sport tires are.

 

[Hoomiester]

I rotate all 5 and change the oil (Mobile 1) every 5000 miles. For me, that averages out to just about every two months. I have a 55 mile (one-way) commute and have no problems with my Dunlops. They have very even tread wear even though I was running 32psi for 10K and then tried 36psi at that point. I like the feel of 36psi when driving the 4Runner and still feel "wrong" about not running the recommended 32. (I am a conformist and hate to not follow the rules!)

I know very little about tires and vehicles and may be running two facing the wrong direction but find that the 4Runner gets me through all of the snow and rain that I've faced so far when others could not. I have to say that I', in love with this vehicle and plan on owning one forever!

 

[MicaBlue03]

Maybe advice about not switching sides is outdated

Pitbull, your idea about using the spare in the next new set of tires makes sense, but not for me. I don't drive too many miles and it would be too long (years) before I'd need a new set. The chances that the *exact* tire would still be available concern me, plus I don't want to combine brand new rubber with years-old stuff. There were reports about problems with old rubber during the post Firestone-Explorer era, and even some proposals about date-coding tires for expiration (last sale dates, anyway).

Now I don't know if these are actual problems, or just speculation. The same may go for the prohibition against swapping rotational direction on radial tires. I'm aware of the situation with unidirectional tires (and studded snows) but that's not what I'm talking about. For a long time after radial tires became popular there were strong recommendations against switching the rotational direction of these tires. The reason was reportedly that the belts (unlike bias ply tires) would take a "set" and rotating them the other direction could eventually cause tread or belt separation.

I may well be wrong, but I think the recommended 5-tire rotation pattern in the Toyota manual doesn't include switching sides. I'll have to check it tonight, unless someone here has their manual handy.

I'm searched around and lots of folks (including the Bridgestone website) indicate that side-to-side rotation is now ok, including use of the spare in the pattern. See the Bridgestone site at http://www.tiresafety.com/service/serv_nav.htm

So I guess I'll check my manual and do the 5-tire cross rotation if that's allowed. That seems like the best bet for my situation, where I'd rather wear all these tires out at the same time.

Thanks for the suggestions and enlightenment, guys.

 

[spyne]

I rotate at 5K, just as many others do, when I change my oil. I don't trust the dealership for either the oil change or rotation since they way over torqued the lugnuts and oil filter the first time. I'd rather do it myself these days.

I have 24K on the truck and the tires appear to be about 50% worn (Michelin X Terrains) so I'm guessing they'll last about 50K.

 

[TechWrench]

As earlier stated, the issue with changing tire rotation direction is not a problem with modern tires. This myth stems from some supposed problems with very early radials, and to my knowledge isn't an issue any more. The Toyota manual specifically recommends swapping sides during a 4 or 5 tire rotation on 4wd vehicles. The bridgestone site also recommends this, so I don't think it is a problem, as long as you don't have rotation specific tires. With the 5 wheel rotation patern, in time, all tires will see approximately the same amount of road time, and I would prefer replacing all 5 when the time comes. As earlier mentioned, IMHO, I would not want to put a 5 or 6 year old spare tire into daily use with three 'new' ones, and there is the problem with matching the same tire later on. Also, doing a 5 tire rotation should give me about 20% more overall tire life, and when the time comes I will accept the hit and get 5 new ones. Given the constant evolution in tire technology, I don't see the benefit in 'saving' the spare for later one.

 

[MicaBlue03]

Thanks, TechWrench, for your clear and well-reasoned response. I think it answers all the concerns I have, and now I know what I should do.

 

[MicaBlue03]

Tire mfr. disagrees with Toyota manual

Well, I just checked the 2003 operator's manual and it shows ONLY a front-to-back rotation. For a 5 tire rotation, it shows the spare rotating to the right rear; the right rear rotating to the right front; and the right front rotating to the spare position.

So Toyota's recommendation is indeed in some degree of conflict with that of Bridgestone. Bridgestone actually recommends a cross rotation for vehicles like ours, but indicates that front-to-back is ok, and was developed in the early years of radial tires.

I suppose Toyota is just being conservative. Maybe Dunlop or Michelin recommends someting different. Can anybody speak for what's in the '04 or '05 manuals, or what is recommended by Michelin or Dunlop?

 

[Hitman]

Yes, you are correct. The manual does not show a side-to-side tire rotation.

My only words of advice-- follow the manual... not what others tell you.

I was wondering if someone was going to read the manual and post this information.... especially considering that there is a big picture with arrows clearly showing the tires staying on the same sides of the vehicle.

 

[TechWrench]

Well, I stand corrected.

I must have my manuals mixed up. In any case, the Bridgestone site does recommend a side to side pattern, so I will keep doing it that way. After all, they built the tires.

PS: I checked the Michelin, Dunlop, and Goodyear sites, and they all recommend a crossing pattern for all-season and 4wd tires. Interestingly, the Goodyear and Dunlop sites have virtually the same word for word expaination for their rotation recommendations. Plagiarism, or does Goodyear own Dunlop?

 

[MicaBlue03]

Thanks, gentlemen. Both of your perspectives have merit in my eyes. Now that we're looking at manuals and "official" recommendations I guess I should spend a minute or two digging out the tire booklet that came with the Bridgestones and see what it says.

Do I get an award for making this issue way too hard?

 

[Jim_Chow]

Re: Tire mfr. disagrees with Toyota manual

Well, I just checked the 2003 operator's manual and it shows ONLY a front-to-back rotation. For a 5 tire rotation, it shows the spare rotating to the right rear; the right rear rotating to the right front; and the right front rotating to the spare position.

So Toyota's recommendation is indeed in some degree of conflict with that of Bridgestone. Bridgestone actually recommends a cross rotation for vehicles like ours, but indicates that front-to-back is ok, and was developed in the early years of radial tires.

I suppose Toyota is just being conservative. Maybe Dunlop or Michelin recommends someting different. Can anybody speak for what's in the '04 or '05 manuals, or what is recommended by Michelin or Dunlop?

I rotate 5 tires, cross-rotation pattern (spare to driver-rear, driver rear to driver-front, driver-front to pass. rear, pass. rear to pass front, pass front to spare). To me, a 5-tire rotation increases the use you get out of your set of tires by 20%, and keeps them the same diameter. Unless your next set is the same brand/model/size, you could easily end up w/ tires 1/2" in diameter different using the same "size" but different brand. Also, the cross-rotation helps even wear a little more, but it assumes your treads are symmetrical.

My father had been getting his tires rotated at the honda dealer. They rotated front to rear only. After his third rotation or so, the car was pulling to one side, so I swapped the passenger and driver front tires, problem solved. The front tires wear more than the rears due to the caster/camber/toe. Not only that, but the amounts are not necessarily equal for both front tires. The tech at SouthBay Toyota in Torrance, CA, told me they set one tire a fraction of a degree off from the other so the vehicle tracks straight on the freeways, which are canted outward for drainage.

--Jim