How to Charge Towed RV Battery while running?

bass-o-matic

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I have a 2002 3rd Gen.

While I'm towing my travel trailer (yet to be wired) I was wondering if I could run a line to it's onboard 12v Marine Deep Cycle and charge it while running?

1. Yup, it's 12v.
2. I could get a true 12v House Battery.
3. This would be nuts but… I wonder if I could use the RV battery to START the 4Runner in a pinch? I mean it's got 300+ watts of solar panels on it.

I guess the safest way would be to take it out of the RV box and just hook it up as a jump box to the 4runner… but it would be fun to have a cable THICK enough to start the 4Runner off of it while it's on the tongue of the RV! Na…that's nuts.

Anyway…. I'm thinking minimally:

Isolator
8 gauge wire ? from the isolator to the RV batt
I can use my existing alternator?

Any tips, laughs, sighs welcome.

Thanks
 
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If you are using a round plug connection from your car to your rv some will charge the battery while you drive ,if the rv has a converter to do so. how much does your RV weigh ? just curious .
 
I have a 2002 3rd Gen.

While I'm towing my travel trailer (yet to be wired) I was wondering if I could run a line to it's onboard 12v Marine Deep Cycle and charge it while running?

1. Yup, it's 12v.
2. I could get a true 12v House Battery.
3. This would be nuts but… I wonder if I could use the RV battery to START the 4Runner in a pinch? I mean it's got 300+ watts of solar panels on it.

I guess the safest way would be to take it out of the RV box and just hook it up as a jump box to the 4runner… but it would be fun to have a cable THICK enough to start the 4Runner off of it while it's on the tongue of the RV! Na…that's nuts.

Anyway…. I'm thinking minimally:

Isolator
8 gauge wire ? from the isolator to the RV batt
I can use my existing alternator?

Any tips, laughs, sighs welcome.

Thanks

yes you can run a line to charge it. it doesn't need to be very heavy, just enough to run a low charge to it. pull it from a HOT WHILE RUNNING source.

as to being able to start the 4runner via that wire? it would indeed need to be very heavy. or wait a long time for it to slowly charge the 4runner battery.
if it were me, I wouldn't want it set up that way.
 
If you have the 7 blade connector it should be charging if everything is wired correctly. It is SLOW though. It is generally used to keep things charged while rolling.
 
yes its possible. for one if you have a large enough RV then you should have a 7 pin trailer harness system on your 4runner and your trailer ie trailer brakes. so what you could do is wire it up so that the center pin in the 7 pin is the constant power source while the 4runner is running and that way as you are towing its charging. though that would not really let you start your 4runner from the trailer, as the wire would not be large enough gauge. but what i would do is get some 1/0g wire and plugs like these; http://www.zorotools.com/g/Battery and Cable Connectors/00052575/ and http://www.zorotools.com/g/Booster Cable/00009764/ cut then ends off the booster cables in install the quick connects and use that to run from your batter back to the back of the truck and then from the trailer to the the batteries in the trailer. -plus with that it now gives you power for a rear winch and or the ability to jump your dead vehicle from the rear or the front...
 
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Hey Thanks everyone!

I get it finally. I think I will Wire the truck and RV with the 7Way, slow charge from there.

The jumping the truck from the battery thing is a bit overkill. In a pinch I could always just pull the battery off the tongue of the RV and take it over to the truck.

Drrrrrrr....
 
Hey Thanks everyone!

I get it finally. I think I will Wire the truck and RV with the 7Way, slow charge from there.

The jumping the truck from the battery thing is a bit overkill. In a pinch I could always just pull the battery off the tongue of the RV and take it over to the truck.

Drrrrrrr....

I don't understand why anyone is telling you it would slow charge. If you run an 8g wire it will charge at a decent rate. I prefer not to use solid state Isolators, instead I use a continuous duty solenoid wired to activate when the key is on. It looks like this

http://rvpowerpartsplus.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=17&products_id=216&gclid=CKv6gsSpnb8CFQpefgodoboATA

This is what RV manufacturers use, and they work well for a long time. I have done this for Slide in Campers, travel trailers, motor homes and 2nd batteries on work trucks, vehicles with large inverters, and of course Toyotas. 8 g would give you plenty of amperage flow and you could get your "house" battery charged up at your campsite with an hour or so of idle time. Make sure you use a high quality circuit breaker or fuse! Some thing like this.

Resettable Circuit Breaker Cooper Bussmann

Keep the amperage rating a little below your alternator capacity. I think 70 or 50 would be fine for what you want, just don't go above 100. Technically 8g could never handle 100 amps, so better keep it lower.
 
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Best overall setup is to get a good Lithium Iron Phosphate battery.
They are more expensive but last WAY longer, charge about twice as fast and you can use about 85% of the battery every time instead of about 30-40% of a regular lead acid battery.
So a 200ah Lithium you get about 170ah of usable power that does not drop off hardly at all.
A 200ah lead acid you get at most 100ah usable but really shouldn't even use that much.
A lithium doesn't need to be charged to full, in fact it is better of you don't.
 
The smaller 6-wire plug also has a wire for charging. It doesn't have to be the larger 7 blade plug.
 
The smaller 6-wire plug also has a wire for charging. It doesn't have to be the larger 7 blade plug.

Technically that is true. Realistically it isn't. You can't use an 8g wire on the smaller 6 wire plug. The 7 "blade" is the RV standard, meaning he can connect to any travel trailer and his brother in law or uncle can tow his with whatever truck he has.
 
My fifth wheel camper (way bigger than anything a t4r will ever tow) uses the smaller connector. There's no need for an 8ga wire either as the amperage shouldn't be that high for the charge wire.

Just because you can set it up to charge fast doesn't mean it should be. The factory wiring in tow rigs (I have an F350, F450, and a Kenworth T600) isn't 8ga as the amperage on factory wiring (7 blade plug) for the camper battery isn't very high. It's a trickle charge at best.
 
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My fifth wheel camper (way bigger than anything a t4r will ever tow) uses the smaller connector. There's no need for an 8ga wire either as the amperage shouldn't be that high for the charge wire.

Just because you can set it up to charge fast doesn't mean it should be. The factory wiring in tow rigs (I have an F350, F450, and a Kenworth T600) isn't 8ga as the amperage on factory wiring (7 blade plug) for the camper battery isn't very high. It's a trickle charge at best.

I never worked on a T600, but I've seen plenty of factory fords, and that is at LEAST a 12g wire, more likely a 10g. True, it's not an 8g wire, but Ford is more interested in cost savings than they are charging your trailer battery. We don't NEED an 8g wire, we don't NEED a lot of things. But if you want to charge the battery, it would be better to use a 7 blade RV connector than the cheap a$$ 6 pole. Let's see what the original question was? No, I get it, let's just tell everyone they don't need what they want instead.

:peace:
 
Really, because it's smaller and one less pole suddenly it's "cheap"?

I only mentioned it because it does have a more compact size and has more mounting options to avoid being torn off when four wheeling. This is a 4WD based site, isn't it? My reasons have nothing to do with cost of the parts.

It was an option given which can either be taken or left by the OP. Makes no difference to me.

Personally I'd put more effort into battery saving features like LED lighting instead of fast charging which has the potential of boiling out the electrolyte and overcharging the battery.
 
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Really, because it's smaller and one less pole suddenly it's "cheap"?

I only mentioned it because it does have a more compact size and has more mounting options to avoid being torn off when four wheeling. This is a 4WD based site, isn't it? My reasons have nothing to do with cost of the parts.

It was an option given which can either be taken or left by the OP. Makes no difference to me.

Personally I'd put more effort into battery saving features like LED lighting instead of fast charging which has the potential of boiling out the electrolyte and overcharging the battery.

I was much harsher than just cheap. I have good reason to think so too. And I wasn't referring to the cost. I understand you have your view, I just don't happen to agree with it, or believe it addresses the OP's question.

As to overcharging? Not going to happen with an 8g wire running 20ft back to a trailer. In fact I'd say the properly working alternator is incapable of overcharging said battery. Because the voltage regulator is getting the combined voltage of both batteries, it wouldn't even charge at the rate the discharged battery is demanding. I've used an inductive ammeter to check the rate of charge in just such a situation and never seen more than 35 to 40 amps after the first few seconds where it might spike to 70 or so. This with a 95 Amp alternator. There are dynamics at work here beyond my comprehension level, but I have a pretty good grasp of the concepts, and a lifetime of failures and success' to draw on.

So in a kinder gentler way I will say once again. The 6 pole connector is not the best solution to the OP's concern. The poles are so close together it's hard to get much wire in there, even harder with a 5 or 4 pole. The design makes the screws hard to deal with in there, and hard to keep out oxidation. The 7 blade RV connector has a larger footprint, but that means it is much easier to service, less prone to wire to wire contact and oxidation.

Sorry if I got a little personal, not really my style.

:boom:
 
Electrical physics 001:
The smaller the gauge the wire the higher the resistance of the line over distance thus a higher voltage drop (potential) and a reduction in the ability to flow current (amperage). In the event of over current under sized wires like to melt at best or catch on fire at worst.

I am an Electrical Engineer and I am in the process of designing a 200W solar install project for my RV at 30A max. I will be using 4 gauge wiring from the panels to the charge controller and 1/0 gauge wires from the controller to the batteries. That's just for 30A max! Why? To reduce resistance so I can maximize the panel's out put to the batteries.

Let's get to being relevant to this topic. Running a 12 gauge wire from your battery through 6/7 pole connector (I also favor the 7 pole but that's just a preference. Not a requirement as they tend to be more of a standard with RV's so therefor easier to use) and it will maintain the battery but by no means charge it. At best you are going to get a 60-70% charge no matter how long you drive it meaning you have a 10-20% charge you can use without significantly reducing the life of the battery.

Do the same with a 8 gauge wire and what would the results be? About 10% more. Maybe. Not much but it's still a gain and all you had to is up the wire size. Now you have the added peace of mind knowing you won't over heat your wiring as well. Not saying you would with your #12 but you have significantly reduced the likely hood.

At the end of the day though relying on your truck to charge your RV battery is not going to cut it. Deep cycle batteries life curves drop off quickly if you deplete them more than 50%. The only way to be able to rely on the battery to last more than a year is to fully charge it before you start using it. Daily. There are lots of ways to accomplish this but it all starts with a quality charger. One that you can program to the type of battery you have (AGM, Gel, Flooded), has a temperature sense line, and has access to enough voltage to properly charge the battery. The power source can be a generator, your A/C wall socket, a solar setup, etc.

Larger diameter wire = faster recharging.
Shorter wire = faster recharging. Since you can't really make your truck or RV shorter (realistically) most people tend to opt for bigger wiring.

Again, this doesn't mean you can't use smaller wiring. A lot of people do but then they pay for it in the end by replacing a battery every 1-2 years because they constantly drained the battery below 50%. Even cheap batteries aren't cheap and buying a bigger battery just means a bigger cost to replace in that 1-2 year cycle. Properly charging a battery will net you a 3-5 year average life span and it is not unheard of to get 8+ years if you are doing it right.

So now you have heard it from an Electrical Engineer. Here's my disclosure. YMMV and if you aren't sure use your favorite form of research tool, seek professional guidance from a certified electrician, etc. I am merely stating what the laws of physics (as we know them) dictate, practical experience, and my own independent research beyond what I learned in school. My senior design project was an actual solar power installation at a Navajo hogan we designed from the ground up (yes it worked). I also did a solar panel setup for my pop up and was fully charging the battery each day off one 100W solar panel. Never once did I use a generator or my vehicle to charge the battery while camping. Now having said that in no way implies I am an expert. It just means I did my home work, came up with a design, and then put all the pieces together just to prove that I could do it myself.

It's your truck so do it your way. There is no wrong answer as long as you are happy with the results. Oh, and you can use a solar panel to charge your battery while driving if you secure the panel to the roof of the trailer as long as it isn't in the shade.
 
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Do I need to upgrade my alternator?

Finally getting around to thinking about doing this. Question...

Do I need to upgrade my alternator to something more biggers?

:girl:
 
Finally getting around to thinking about doing this. Question...

Do I need to upgrade my alternator to something more biggers?

I've towed travel trailers 10s of thousands of miles with the OEM alternators in my tow vehicles. There's not really a big need to put in a bigger alternator unless you need to recharge the RV batts in a short amount of time.
 
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There is lots of discussion about this on RV owners forums. I've played around with an ammeter in the charge line between the truck and the trailer. From what I was able to find out:

No need for a bigger alternator or particularly large wire. #10 is what usually comes with factory tow setups and is all you really can use with most trailer plugs anyway.

What happens is that the voltage regulator will see the battery with the highest charge and charge based on that reading. That's going to be the starting battery in your truck in most cases. The RV battery will charge but very slowly, no matter how big the wire is, mostly as a function of how quickly the RV battery tries to pull down the starting battery - not much.

The RV battery will charge a bit more quickly if you run with the headlights on but not a lot. It will also charge a bit more quickly if you let the starting battery run down a bit, and one way to do that is to leave the RV connected to the truck while you are camping so both batteries drain more or less evenly. The risk is, of course, that you may wake up and find BOTH batteries dead.

Starting the truck from the RV battery via the trailer connector is not going to work. The wire would have to be huge and the connector would most likely go up in flames.
 
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