How To Purchase a 4Runner

[007Runner]

I have no clue! I have a sales contract with the details, and the dealer has no clue what is in the pipeline. They also told me that it is too early to preference a order. They offer me a deposit refund, or I will just have to wait till whenever because they are in the dark. I called several other dealers and the story was the same so I know that I am being told the truth. They took my order because they were promised what they needed by the regional sales manager to make it happen for me. Now not even he knows what is going on.

To make matters even worse only 3% are being made with the V8 engine, and navigation, xreas and rear air package is even rarer. Then I had to pick blue, now we know for sure this order will have to be requested by Toyota, and nobody even knows if they will build it like that.

The dealers tell me they can make no promises. They all want to sell me a 4Runner but Toyota apparently builds what they feel like, not what the customer wants. I never in my life had a hard time spending money until this morning. I am happy that the 4Runner and Toyota quality is so good that whatever they decide to build people buy. However I am not going to purchase a $40,000 vehicle that is not built the way I want.

So I call the Toyota corporate number this morning, tell them the story and they tell me they will document it. More like toss it away. They ask me if I looked into Lexus. I asked if they wanted to give me the $12,000 more I would need to purchase a Lexus, total silence. Then I hang up. Wish Toyota was not so big and powerful but retained the quality. Maybe then TSB issues would get resolved in a timely manner, and a simple order for a vehicle could get filled. I want option package B, they show it that way on Build a Toyota, yeah right. I wonder why Toyota thinks this is good business?

 

[drake3]

I, like you, was very disappointed to find that Toyota does not do a-la-carte ordering on the options. Different sales regions put together option packages that they think will best meet thier local customer needs and wants. It makes sense and you know why because you said it yourself, Toyota is big. It saves them money to do it like that instead of building each unit to order. Economies of scale.

When I ordered my BMW I could do each option separately, but that was a luxury car. I expected to be able to do that with Toyota, but unfortunately, unless you know the right people you won't get far through the dealer network.

Personally I made comprises and am very pleased with my new 4runner. I could have waited for a special order, but the options in my case were not that important to me.

Now, for your case, you may have complained to the wrong people. Many people when they think Toyota Corporate they call TMC. Who you really need to call is TMS (Toyota Motor Sales). Not Toyota Motor Corporation - you need to talk to the sales/distribution channel, not the manufacturer. Find out from your dealer or sales manager who your district sales manager is and then contact them directly. If your local dealer sales staff is nice (and you are resonable) they will give you this information. Your district manager is the person who can help you by actually seeing what has been scheduled for production and possibly ordering one for you if the build matrix is possible.

And as always when ordering a car, have patience. Good things come to those who wait.

 

[007Runner]

I spoke to the people that you suggested with no luck. They only want me to speak with other dealerships, gee I contacted 4 now with no real answers. Xreas and rear air on a limited V8, I would have thought this to be easy to get.

 

[007Runner]

Looks like one of the contacts you suggested got me some answers. I was told the dealer can preference the order today, however it will take about 2 months to see if the factory will accept the order. Then it can take an average of 4 to 6 months to actually get your vehicle.

So now that this information has been confirmed by Toyota Motor Corp. If I even get my vehicle at all, it will be in 6 to 8 months. And the dealer can not commit in writing any hard figures because the dealer will not know the pricing structure this far in advance. So much for my October delivery date.

This is ridiculous I think on the part of Toyota. It is not fair to the customer, and it does not make it easy for the dealer either. Buying a new car should not cause this much stress and inconvenience on any body. It should be a simple straight forward transaction, without wondering after all your hard work to get a fair price you don't even know for 2 months if the factory is even going to accept your order. If American cars were not such shit boxes, I certainly would not tolerate this nonsense.

 

[drake3]

So now that this information has been confirmed by Toyota Motor Corp. If I even get my vehicle at all, it will be in 6 to 8 months. And the dealer can not commit in writing any hard figures because the dealer will not know the pricing structure this far in advance. So much for my October delivery date.

What you are saying here does not make sense. If you talked to your district manager who works for Toyota Motor Sales (If you are not in North Carolina or an area controller by Leith sales group) then they should have told you the MSRP on your vehicle order with options. The MSRP is not going to change for a 2007 build. Do you get what I am saying here? MSRP is not going to change through the model year. Sounds like you are still getting your information through the dealers to me.

 

[007Runner]

What you are saying here does not make sense. If you talked to your district manager who works for Toyota Motor Sales (If you are not in North Carolina or an area controller by Leith sales group) then they should have told you the MSRP on your vehicle order with options. The MSRP is not going to change for a 2007 build. Do you get what I am saying here? MSRP is not going to change through the model year. Sounds like you are still getting your information through the dealers to me.

I am not paying MSRP, The original deal was for 127 dollars over the invoice price. I am using Edmund's as the price guide here.

So now I need to do a new contract to reflect the fact the price may go up or down but to still remain at the 127 dollar target price. I f I was going to be paying the sticker price do you really think a few dollars up and down would make any difference? I hope this makes it clear.

 

[drake3]

I am not paying MSRP, The original deal was for 127 dollars over the invoice price. I am using Edmund's as the price guide here.

So now I need to do a new contract to reflect the fact the price may go up or down but to still remain at the 127 dollar target price. I f I was going to be paying the sticker price do you really think a few dollars up and down would make any difference? I hope this makes it clear.

Of course I assumed you were not paying MSRP, but when you order a car you usually draw up the order first with all options at MSRP so you know the total price and then work the sale down with the local dealer. Now knowing that you had a previous deal at a set amount near invoice makes sense. So OK, you can get an MSRP price for your build-to-order truck, but who knows, in 4 months maybe the "market value" for the truck may be different than today. Get a signed buyer's order so you can have something to fall back on.

 

[007Runner]

Of course I assumed you were not paying MSRP, but when you order a car you usually draw up the order first with all options at MSRP so you know the total price and then work the sale down with the local dealer.

Never ever start at the MSRP for any thing. Refuse to even discuss the MSRP. All negotiations should start at the Invoice price period.
Do you know what car dealers think the MSRP stands for? Mighty Stupid Retarted people who think they will get a great deal by trying to get the dealer to drop the price from the sticker.

I had my car in for service one day, and I overheard that from a sales meeting.

 

[drake3]

Never ever start at the MSRP for any thing. Refuse to even discuss the MSRP. All negotiations should start at the Invoice price period.
Do you know what car dealers think the MSRP stands for? Mighty Stupid Retarted people who think they will get a great deal by trying to get the dealer to drop the price from the sticker.

I had my car in for service one day, and I overheard that from a sales meeting.

Dude, you are reading between the lines. Look, I told you to contact your district sales manager who works for TMS. Do you think you are going to negotiate a price with this person? This person is not going to sell you a car because they are up in the channel, but will help you place an order with TMC for the 4runner you want. Maybe you did not understand this. The DSM should give you the build and the MSRP which after they would give to the dealer of your choice to negotiate the price. Don't assume I am moron because I have assumed you are actually understanding my posts.

 

[Uneek]

The problem with not being able to get what you want is NOT Toyota's fault, but the regional distributor is the blame. The regional distributor orders what it thinks will sell and what customer's want, i.e. (in my area) navigation is only found on 4WD V8 Limiteds, JBL are only 4WD V6 Limiteds, only 2WD is V6 SR5, etc. When I was shopping for mine, every other dealer said they can't special order a 4Runner and I had to take what's on the lot.

You need to find a sales rep and dealer willing to put in a preference order. My dealer's allocation are seven 4Runners, which for my region are 2WD SR5s; 4WD V6 or V8 SR5s, Sport Editions and Limiteds. When I preferenced mine, my rep made changes to model 8668 (4WD V6 Limited) with the options I wanted. He changed what's normally on a 4WD V6 Limited: moonroof, spoiler, hitch, JBL 10-speaker, and side/curtain bags and specified interior and exterior colors. The system will show if the changes are saved. Then he moved my configuration to the top of of allocation list.

After about a month and half since making the changes, the allocation list shows that changes to Model 8668 is accepted. That meant that my configuration is going to be released to the plant's build schedule. It was all waiting from then for another one and half months before my truck's VIN showed up to the allocation schedule of what's arriving to port. It took about two weeks from when the truck's VIN showed up to taking delivery.

In total, from the time I asked my rep to preference my truck to delivery it was a bit over three months. Other members who have ordered theirs, waited between three to four months including members near the East coast. The only reason why the dealer would not preference a truck for you, is because it takes up one of their allocation units. I believe another reason, dealers don't want to deal with ordering, is because if they can get you to settle then one of the vehicles on their lot is sold rather than having that one sit there and hoping that a potential customer in the future might want it. If there is no one willing buy a particular vehicle, then they have to discount it, thus better deals on colors that no one wants.

 

[snap315]

Okay....

Talk to the FLEET or INTERNET Sales manager at the LARGEST dealership near you.

They should be able to put in the order to your specs.

NEVER COMPROMISE ON A $30 - $40,000 VEHICLE!!
Don't settle for anything less than what you want, especially the color!

And you are right to only deal from Invoice.

I was lucky and someone on this board give me the name of a great salesman in the Internet/Fleet department of the largest dealership in SoCal. He knew I had done my homework and offered me a great deal at $500 over invoice, plus I got to use any Toyota incentives that were available at the time the vehicle arrived (which turned out to be $2,500 off ).

It's a good idea to have the specs of exactly what you want printed out; including option codes & price.

And around this time of year, a preference order should take about 3 to 5 months total, including the wait to see if Toyota agrees to build it.


:biggrin2:

 

[007Runner]

I got my preference order in. Now I just get to sit on my hands for 2 months to see if Toyota accepts the order. It is a shame to have to buy a car this way. If all goes well maybe I will get it before the 2008 models role in. I sure do feel like a fool to jump through hoops like this. You are so right, we are spending so much money, compromise is something I refuse to do as well.

 

[Uneek]

I got my preference order in. Now I just get to sit on my hands for 2 months to see if Toyota accepts the order. It is a shame to have to buy a car this way. If all goes well maybe I will get it before the 2008 models role in. I sure do feel like a fool to jump through hoops like this. You are so right, we are spending so much money, compromise is something I refuse to do as well.

Congrats. You should have your truck right around New Year's. Definately don't settle, if you have to, at least end up with more than what you want rather than less. Better to have and not need it, than to need and not have it. But at $40k, the process should be a easier. Best thing about having it ordered, it'll probably have the fewest number of miles when you get it. My 4Runner had one and Tacoma had two--both had to be ordered.

 

[007Runner]

I ordered the Limited 4wd V8, I got ever option except the 3rd row seat and rear DVD player. Blows my mind, you buy a top of the line model and load it up, you have to order it because it does not come that way. Xreas and the rear air suspension screwed things up for me. The navigation system looks complicated. Probably take me years to figure it out!

 

[Uneek]

I ordered the Limited 4wd V8, I got ever option except the 3rd row seat and rear DVD player. Blows my mind, you buy a top of the line model and load it up, you have to order it because it does not come that way. Xreas and the rear air suspension screwed things up for me. The navigation system looks complicated. Probably take me years to figure it out!

Yeah, I think rear air suspension conflicts with the 3rd row. Navigation is very easy to use, however, trying to change display settings or using a different view while driving is difficult. It's not hard at all if you're stopped and you're trying to enter a destination, the system is very intuitive. On a side note, I think the reason why there isn't a "fully loaded" or optioned out 4Runner is because the MSRP will probably be closer to $45k, many buyers will start wondering at why not consider the GX470.

 

[007Runner]

I think the reason why there isn't a "fully loaded" or optioned out 4Runner is because the MSRP will probably be closer to $45k, many buyers will start wondering at why not consider the GX470.

You are correct about the price of the 4Runner, but I'm paying around $40,000 for the vehicle. Toyota dealers, are for the most part anxious to deal.

I actually looked at the Gx470. Because like you said it is a lot of money, and why not consider the Lexus. Lexus was willing to take 500 dollars off the sticker. Don't even think about trying to deal or talk invoice price with these crooks. They acted like they were going to the poor house to give me the 500 dollar discount of the sticker. This means they want to make about 9 thousand dollars over invoice according to Edmund's. The final cost differences between the 2 models came to about $13,500.

I could win the lottery and no way on this green earth would I be willing to let a dealer rape me like that. I bet others feel the same way too. But if some guy is in desperate need of transportation, he might just go with the Lexus instead of the long wait and uncertainty of a preference order 4Runner.

So what do you get for the extra $13,500? Not much really, a year is added to the basic warranty. Like reliability is such a worry factor on a Toyota product. You get nicer seats, dash, and interior. The ride is nicer, but the 4Runner had slightly better handling in my opinion. It was also more silent regarding wind, and road noise. But the difference was not enough to be very impressive. Your also stuck with a worthless 3rd row seat, and the back end opens like a barn door. If you parallel park, you may not even be able to open the back end. I actually tested that for my self. The Lexus engine only adds about 3 horse power and 5 ft pounds torque over the 4Runner. Those figures are very close but I did it from memory, I may be off but by very little. No Led tail lights on the Lexus, the 4Runner has that. 18 in tires on the Runner, 17 in the Lexus. Both have the same projection headlights, nothing fancy at all for the Lexus lighting.

They do like to call you sir and open the door for you a lot at Lexus. I do like the Lexus emblem, it is prestigious and really does get you more attention then a Toyota I suppose. Service and parts for the Lexus are substantially more then the Toyota. In 5yrs both vehicles are only worth about a 3rd of what you paid for it.

Overall to me, the 4Runner is the more intelligent choice. The 4Runner seems to have some stuff the Lexus does not, like LED tail lights and 18 in tires. The Lexus does have the KDDS I know it is wrong, but it is superior to the Xreas system. That in a nut shell wraps things up. I will own a quality vehicle, in some ways actually ahead of the Lexus, save $13,500 over the purchase price, save who knows how much by not paying the Lexus premium on parts and service.

I could afford to go with the Lexus, but I am using my brain, not my heart to make this purchase. Shame on you Lexus for trying to screw people the way you do!

 

[Uneek]

007Runner,

Exactly. The major difference with the GX is it has more headroom. I'm 6'1" and I don't have a problem with the 4R even with the moonroof though I wouldn't mind have an extra inch or two though.

I didn't consider the GX (hate the barn door), but I did look at the RX330 (entirely a different animal) because I wanted something with AWD for snowboarding. But I'm happier that the RX fell through, got the Camry then and now the 4R. If I won the lotto, I'd get a LS600h and a RS4, but I'm still keeping my 4R.

The extra power on the Lexus is testing with premium gas.

 

[007Runner]

I am under 6 feet, but if I had your height the GX with the greater head room might be the better choice. The RX is now the model 350, got a bigger engine. My main reason for getting the 4Runner is that I know it can handle 20 in of snow. I am not sure if the Lexus 350 can do that. Both vehicles MSRP was about the same price.

If I had proof the Lexus RX350 can go in heavy snow like that, it would have been my first choice only because of the price of gas.
I asked around, but the most snow anybody saw in that vehicle was 6 in. The dealers were no help, they said the lots get plowed all the time and never get much accumulation.

So I ended up with the 4Runner, and with the price of gas I know I will be spending a bit more money.