Huge Parasitic Battery Drain Problem

[pax]

I got a major problem and need some help. I have got a major parasitic battery drain problem of around 9.5 amps and have exhausted my knowledge base for answers. I'd run it to a mechanic now but am presently unemployed and don't have the cash. It is on an 2002 4Runner 4X4. Here is is what I have done to ID the problem:

1. New battery (I replaced the battery earlier in the year and got the shop to swap it out for me).

2. Pulled the alternator and had it tested twice at different shops - good. Thought it might have been a diode issue.

3. Pulled ALL the fuses one at a time with amp meter in series to find a short in one of the circuits - Nothing. I checked the two fuse boxes in the engine compartment and the one on the driver side. Is there any others I am missing?

4. Disconnected all the extra equipment.

My next step is to check the ground connections but not sure where are they are all located.

I am also planning to double check the fuses to make sure I didn't make a mistake there.

What am I overlooking and any ideas as where I go next with this?

Thanks

 

[brian2sun]

Obviously figuring out the draw would be best, but since you've done all that and still weren't able to find it and can't afford to take it to a mechanic right now, you may consider installing a battery cut-off switch in the meantime. Do you have abig sound system in it or something?

 

[pax]

Obviously figuring out the draw would be best, but since you've done all that and still weren't able to find it and can't afford to take it to a mechanic right now, you may consider installing a battery cut-off switch in the meantime. Do you have abig sound system in it or something?

Sound system is a XM radio I plug into the cassette player on the stock system and a cb that I disconnected already.

Yeah I got bought the cutoff switch this morning...been raining around here all day. Going to save that for tomorrow's addition.

Thanks

 

[TheDurk]

The one thing that lies outside the fuse system is the starter. Perhaps one of the brushes is shorted somehow and half the windings are energized full time. 9.5 amps is enough that I'd think it might warm up the starter case. Try getting your hand in there. Have you tried to isolate whether the drain is through the thick starter positive cable or the smaller 'everything else' cable?

 

[Ghostrider]

I don't think this can cause that large of a drain but what did you power the XM from and are you sure it turns off? I once hooked a cruise control to the radio fuse except it was the fuse for the radio clock so the cruise was always hot. Drained the battery overnight.

 

[RDS3030]

Sound system is a XM radio I plug into the cassette player on the stock system and a cb that I disconnected already.

Yeah I got bought the cutoff switch this morning...been raining around here all day. Going to save that for tomorrow's addition.

Thanks

If its wired to the battery and you dont have a power toggle switch installed that could be the problem since the power may always be on. id get that switch in asap. I just put one into my 4runners dash for the amp to my subs. Let me know if you want some photos.

 

[pax]

Thanks Durk. I think you put me on the right track here. It is so easy to look at a problem so hard that the simple things escape and are over looked.

The xm radio would explode if it had 9 amps running through it. It is just a little samsung helix which is about the size of a credit card that plugs into one of the cig plugs (old school name I know).

I follow up when I get it solved.

Thanks

 

[pax]

Ran the heat trick on the starter motor last night....just as cool as everything else.

Start going throught fuse box again looking for voltage and what the amps were if there was power. The ECU B fuse has around 9 volts but about 6.5 amps with ign. switch in the locked position. That just seems really high to me since the fuse is only rated at 7.5. I could not find a reference number for that so wated to see if anyone had any idea what it should be?

Thanks

 

[Sig220]

Don't have the answer you are looking for, but a recent experience may help you find it!!

Had a Ford come in with the complaint of freezing up A/C and battery going dead over night. Checked the A/C compressor while engine was running and found that the A/C clutch was still engaged with the A/C switch off.....WTH??

Dug around a little more and found that the breaker/relay for the A/C clutch was locked in the closed position and when you pulled the ground from the battery found it was pulling a lot of amps. Even with the ignition switch off.

Replaced the breaker/relay and the A/C works as it should and the battery drain stopped.

You can check to confirm a drain on the battery by pulling the negative cable and putting a test light/voltage meter between the cable and the negative post.

Good Luck to you!!

 

[TheDurk]

Ran the heat trick on the starter motor last night....just as cool as everything else.

Start going throught fuse box again looking for voltage and what the amps were if there was power. The ECU B fuse has around 9 volts but about 6.5 amps with ign. switch in the locked position. That just seems really high to me since the fuse is only rated at 7.5. I could not find a reference number for that so wated to see if anyone had any idea what it should be?

Thanks

No idea, sorry. ECU-B is the Body ECU, which includes a LOT of key-off loads. Alarm, keyless entry, door locks, etc. Also includes the power to all those relay controls by the fuses left of the steering wheel and a few under the dash. My first thought is faulty relay. Look for a warm one and maybe try pulling a few to see where that power is going.

How much is total draw if you pull that fuse?

 

[Obadiah]

I have a 2004 4Runner with the exact same issue. I am on my third battery. I went from the OEM Panasonic, which lasted about three years to an Optima (junk), which lasted about 9 months, to a Sears Platinum which is about a 1 1/2 years old.

I spent about $200 on the Sears Platinum battery thinking I would get the beast, but something is clearly wrong with my 4Runner. I've noticed the vehicle turning over more slowly over the past few weeks again. And then my car was dead this morning following one day I did not use my vehicle.

In the past I had the dealer check for parasitic draw along with an electrical check and everything checked out okay.

But something is wrong with my 4Runner and I think this is an issue with many 4Runners.

 

[pax]

Hey Durk,

When I pull the two ECU fuses the reading doesn't change but the odd thing today is the amps have gone down to 7 amps. Weather conditions have changed, it has not rained around here in 24 which is a first since I noticed the problem. That kind of makes me think about grounds and harnesses. I am going to check out the relays first though...LOL...they are the easiest to get too.

Obadiah, I'll pass on what I come up with. LOL.....I hope that dealer diagnoses was "on the house".

Thanks

 

[pax]

I just went back out to work some more and the drain is down to 4.6 amps. I am thinking it has got to be moisture related.

I had to get the windshield replaced this summer, I wondering if it is not completely dried in?

 

[TheDurk]

Hey Durk,

That kind of makes me think about grounds and harnesses.

Grounds cause all kinds of weird sh***, but I don't know how a ground can cause a parasitic drain. Unless a positive is shorting to it. Keep at it, these things are frustrating.

 

[muddertrucker99]

Pax this summer i had altenator issue on my tacoma! I went to auto zone and they said it fine. So i pulled all the fuses to everything that i thought would drain it.
Bought a new battery and the problem didnt get fixed. So i pulled the batt and alt it checked fine. Went advance this time. They noticed that it didnt spin free enough. They said it was stuck open or closed can't remember how its supposed to be. But i went to the local toyota junk yard picked up a new one and it took care of it!

 

[pax]

LOL...I restarted the truck and took a couple measurements, shut down took another amp reading and I am sitting at 7.5 amps again. Atleast I am not at 9.5 again. Nothing is broken (not working) or even to close to malfunctioning so I'll keep trying.

Yeah Mudd., everything is suspect. At the mileage I am at with zero mechanical problems since I bought the rig new, I would expect something to wear out. I've been lucky, I guess, up to my current electrical issue. This rig just got past its break in period.

Thanks for your help guys.

 

[notrayray]

If you pull the AM1 and AM2 fusible links that will remove the starting system and ignition from the loop....something to try if you have not yet.
Also, careful pulling those things out, they are easy to break.

 

[pax]

Update

I had to take the rig to the state emissions for my annual test. I really wanted to find my short before I went there but today was the last day.

I ran the engine for a good 35 miles (city and highway) and close to an hour before I went to get tested so I hoped there was going to be enough data points since I have to disconnect the battery constantly.

FAILED....because the OBD system said that the catalytic converter and evap system were not ready. I looked at the "drive cycle" for Toyota's and there is no reason to believe that I didn't complete the cycle. Info on the drive cycle:

http://www.rlescalambre.com/images/Toyota-Drive-Cycle-1S.jpg

Guess it brings the question forward is if the ECU could be my problem? I am guessing that the ECU system is internally modular in nature thus allowing all other systems to function normally in the event of a non-critical failure. I figured a DTC would be generated but there never are any codes in the system how ever long I run it and I've checked multiple times. Just another clue in the mystery to run down.

 

[TheDurk]

Update

I had to take the rig to the state emissions for my annual test. I really wanted to find my short before I went there but today was the last day.

I ran the engine for a good 35 miles (city and highway) and close to an hour before I went to get tested so I hoped there was going to be enough data points since I have to disconnect the battery constantly.

FAILED....because the OBD system said that the catalytic converter and evap system were not ready. I looked at the "drive cycle" for Toyota's and there is no reason to believe that I didn't complete the cycle. Info on the drive cycle:

http://www.rlescalambre.com/images/Toyota-Drive-Cycle-1S.jpg

Guess it brings the question forward is if the ECU could be my problem? I am guessing that the ECU system is internally modular in nature thus allowing all other systems to function normally in the event of a non-critical failure. I figured a DTC would be generated but there never are any codes in the system how ever long I run it and I've checked multiple times. Just another clue in the mystery to run down.

I assume you are aware that pulling the EFI fuse or the battery cable resets the ECM. Then it's two trip detection and it takes a while to complete--like most of a tank. I've never tried to 'drive' it to completion but I understand it's picky. So you may just need more time driving since your diagnostic activities for it to set 'ready' again.

 

[pax]

Thanks Durk.

Yeah I am having to disconnect the battery if the truck isn't going to run for a couple hours so I am resetting the ecu everyday at min.. Battery was discharging faster than I restarting it.

LOL...I got to find this "critter" soon, I am having dreams about millimeters and continuity testers. Maybe a drive out to the PA mountains to look for a remote trout stream spot is in order one early morning.

Durk, do you know if the NJ emissions re-test is a one shot deal or multiple times (if needed) until the deadline date? I haven't been able to find the answer to that on the web.

Thanks for all your help, I really appreciate it.