Schargedtaco
New member
On a 2nd note I have had no glitches or problems adding to both my vehicles and the fuel savings seems to outweigh the risk the car may die as I haven't seen any issues
I found the key to unlocking your 3rd Gens mileage
- Thread starter Schargedtaco
- Start date
Kurtis
New member
I don't know what scale you are using but the fuel "savings" (as you call it), do not out weight breaking your truck. Your MPG hasn't changed, just your distance to empty has. When you get your P0446 code make sure to post on this thread. The discussion of filling up after the first click and it's negative effects has been had on this forum multiple times. Not trying to sound like an jerk here. Anyone that has posted above me knows what they are talking about.
Schargedtaco
New member
If you have a better method for calculating mileage than taking totall miles divided by gallons used at click please let me know? The calculation does not lie. I've been doing this on my carolla for 2 years with no problems and think the code is nonsense. I wouldn't be surprised with people like snivilous out there who either gave no clue there tank holds more or are told not to top off for enviornmental reasons ontop of this p code stuff that its no wonder Noone really has a clue other than your math is wrong.
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snivilous
Senior Member
[MENTION=93491]Schargedtaco[/MENTION] I had some trouble following your post, so I will summarize how I read it, please correct me if I'm wrong:
So you are saying you filled your tank with 14 gallons to fill it back to the same level you started at before driving 265 miles, correct? 265/14 = ~19mpg
To accurately calculate mileage, you need to refill the tank to the same point it was originally filled to so you can figure out how much gas you burned. This paragraph sounds like you are not doing that. It sounds like you add two gallons of fuel past the click off, but then you refill to the click off and use that quantity as the amount you burned. You can't do that because you haven't refilled to the same point as before, so in that case your mileage is 265/16 = ~16.5mpg.
You need to fill to click off, then burn gas and refill to click off. OR fill to click off, add two gallons, drive, fill to click off and add two more gallons and now take that quantity refilled as the amount of fuel used. The point being, you refill to the same tank level every time as that is the variable that must remain constant.
If I'm missing something again, please correct me. I'm all for saving money!
So you are saying you filled your tank with 14 gallons to fill it back to the same level you started at before driving 265 miles, correct? 265/14 = ~19mpg
To accurately calculate mileage, you need to refill the tank to the same point it was originally filled to so you can figure out how much gas you burned. This paragraph sounds like you are not doing that. It sounds like you add two gallons of fuel past the click off, but then you refill to the click off and use that quantity as the amount you burned. You can't do that because you haven't refilled to the same point as before, so in that case your mileage is 265/16 = ~16.5mpg.
You need to fill to click off, then burn gas and refill to click off. OR fill to click off, add two gallons, drive, fill to click off and add two more gallons and now take that quantity refilled as the amount of fuel used. The point being, you refill to the same tank level every time as that is the variable that must remain constant.
If I'm missing something again, please correct me. I'm all for saving money!
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Schargedtaco
New member
If I went 265 miles on 12 gallons to click that's 22 mpg . I then add 2 more and in the next fillup 12 gallons to click equals same as before. I then add 2 more gallons. The 2 extra gallons I'm adding is 14,totall not 16. So 308/14= 22 if you equate in the 14 totall
smkd13
New member
Ok so let me get this straight??? Your saying that your getting batter mileage when your filling up past the click. (Bad idea in the first place) and your adding 2 gal to your tank. Honestly this will not get you better mileage but pretty much just more distance on one tank. That does not equate to better mileage.
The Lucas cleaner might and I mean might have actually cleaned out your injectors but it is not gonna help you have that much of a gain in MPGs. Fuel delivery to the cylinder will be better possibly but roughly that is it. You can get the same effects by running a higher octane. Plus you will actually see a mileage gain there.
I average between 18-19.5 mpg at 70 mph for highway and 16-18 for mixed. I see a difference when I run 91 as compared to 87. Difference is almost 2 mpg or so. Btw I am also lifted w/ 285s. My average tank for 15 gallons that I use before I fill is 250-300.
Have fun with your $700 coal canister.
The Lucas cleaner might and I mean might have actually cleaned out your injectors but it is not gonna help you have that much of a gain in MPGs. Fuel delivery to the cylinder will be better possibly but roughly that is it. You can get the same effects by running a higher octane. Plus you will actually see a mileage gain there.
I average between 18-19.5 mpg at 70 mph for highway and 16-18 for mixed. I see a difference when I run 91 as compared to 87. Difference is almost 2 mpg or so. Btw I am also lifted w/ 285s. My average tank for 15 gallons that I use before I fill is 250-300.
Have fun with your $700 coal canister.
snivilous
Senior Member
No, you can't add 2 gallons and then on the next fillup go to the click and use that as your measurement. You have to either fill from click to click, or fill from click + 2 to click + 2.
So say you fill it up to the click, then add 2 gallons. Now you drive 265 miles and you fill up to the click and it's 12 gallons. Well you haven't filled up to the same level as you originally filled up so you need to add 2 more gallons to get to where you started so you really burned 14 gallons. What I'm reading is that you are filling to full, adding 2 gallons, and then the next time just filling to the click. If you do that then you have to add 2 gallons to what you burned since the click off isn't registering that the tank was overfilled in the beginning.
Unless I'm totally reading this wrong (wouldn't be a first) and you are saying you are filling it to the same spot everytime and using that as your fuel burned.
And slightly off topic, higher octane shouldn't boost mileage unless the engine is designed for it in which case it should always run it. Correct me if I'm wrong...
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smkd13
New member
You actually understood what he was trying to say??? Cause I was confused as hell.
BigFishAllDay
New member
this thread:
I have a feeling I'll be wasting my time with an explanation, but here goes;
In your scenario, forget about the pump click. All that matters when calculating MPG's is miles driven divided by the amount of gas used.
If you always fill your tank to where the gas backs up the filler neck, to where you can actually see the gas before it overflows onto the ground, you have to repeat that every time you fill up, and divide by the total amount of gas pumped into the tank, not some arbitrary lower limit. That is if you want your calculations to be accurate.
It's not advisable for the continued operation of your emissions system, but I'll get to that in a moment.
In your example you said you pumped gas until it was about to overflow from the filler neck, drove 265 miles, and then pumped 14 gallons total to the same nearly overflowing point again. That means you got 18.92 mpg.
The reason there is extra space in the gas tank, is so that if you were to fill your tank to the fuel shutoff, and it's relatively cool out, than drive a mile or so home and park in the sun, and the ambient temps go up, the gas in the tank will expand. If there is no room for that expansion, because you've filled your tank to the brim, the gas will back up into your evaporative emissions canister. If that happens enough, it will ruin the evap canister, set a CEL, and you won't pass emissions until you replace the expensive evap canister.
I used to work on consumer cars for a living, I saw this fairly often.
That's why the smart advice is to not top off the tank. If you always drive longer distances immediately after topping off the tank, you might luck out, and use the gas in the overfilled tank, before it can expand, and saturate the evap canister.
Cars get worse MPG's in winter for numerous reasons.
Winter blend gas has less BTU content than summer gas, so there is less energy available per gallon.
Engines that are started when cold, run at richer A/F mixtures, thus using more gas until the engine reaches operating temp.
All of the oil in the driveline is thicker when it's cold, so there is more mechanical drag on all oil lubricated moving parts, until the various oils reach operating temp.
Lots of people start their engine and let it run while the car sits stationary, so the heater will work when they finally get in to drive. A car that is running, but not moving, is getting 0 MPG. That will further bring the overall MPG average down in a hurry.
Schargedtaco said:
In your scenario, forget about the pump click. All that matters when calculating MPG's is miles driven divided by the amount of gas used.
If you always fill your tank to where the gas backs up the filler neck, to where you can actually see the gas before it overflows onto the ground, you have to repeat that every time you fill up, and divide by the total amount of gas pumped into the tank, not some arbitrary lower limit. That is if you want your calculations to be accurate.
It's not advisable for the continued operation of your emissions system, but I'll get to that in a moment.
In your example you said you pumped gas until it was about to overflow from the filler neck, drove 265 miles, and then pumped 14 gallons total to the same nearly overflowing point again. That means you got 18.92 mpg.
The reason there is extra space in the gas tank, is so that if you were to fill your tank to the fuel shutoff, and it's relatively cool out, than drive a mile or so home and park in the sun, and the ambient temps go up, the gas in the tank will expand. If there is no room for that expansion, because you've filled your tank to the brim, the gas will back up into your evaporative emissions canister. If that happens enough, it will ruin the evap canister, set a CEL, and you won't pass emissions until you replace the expensive evap canister.
I used to work on consumer cars for a living, I saw this fairly often.
That's why the smart advice is to not top off the tank. If you always drive longer distances immediately after topping off the tank, you might luck out, and use the gas in the overfilled tank, before it can expand, and saturate the evap canister.
Cars get worse MPG's in winter for numerous reasons.
Winter blend gas has less BTU content than summer gas, so there is less energy available per gallon.
Engines that are started when cold, run at richer A/F mixtures, thus using more gas until the engine reaches operating temp.
All of the oil in the driveline is thicker when it's cold, so there is more mechanical drag on all oil lubricated moving parts, until the various oils reach operating temp.
Lots of people start their engine and let it run while the car sits stationary, so the heater will work when they finally get in to drive. A car that is running, but not moving, is getting 0 MPG. That will further bring the overall MPG average down in a hurry.
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BrianSD_42
New member
No offense (because its not personal) but I simply don't believe these threads.
It has been well documented that our V6 get 15-17, maybe 18 or 19 under certain circumstances.
How you are getting 23 MPG baffles me because it defies science.
It has been well documented that our V6 get 15-17, maybe 18 or 19 under certain circumstances.
How you are getting 23 MPG baffles me because it defies science.
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BrianSD_42
New member
For some data points of PERFECTLY NORMAL milage see here:
Toyota 4Runner MPG Reports | Fuelly
Consistent averages from 17-19 MPG
Toyota 4Runner MPG Reports | Fuelly
Consistent averages from 17-19 MPG
Attachments
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Schargedtaco
New member
In your example you said you pumped gas until it was about to overflow from the filler neck, drove 265 miles, and then pumped 14 gallons total to the same nearly overflowing point again. That means you got 18.92 mpg.
Yes during mixed city driving I get 18.92,mpg taking 265/12 gallons! I would say that isn't to bad!! During straight highway travel on trips I get 308 at minimum, take 308/12= 25.6 what I had stated in my initial post to California. Add back in the 2 gallons above the click so 14 gallons.. 308/14= 22 mpg highway..... Is this not clicking yet! The bottom line is I'm not denying I could have a failure as I did not understand the back flow into canister issue but I've yet to have a hiccup on my vehicles as I do drive 80-100 miles a day and work nights in under covered parking so the vehicle rarely sits out in the heat all day and I go through the tank quickly. So again my encouragement is to do this mainly on trips where your gonna drive immediately and burn through the first few gallons quickly to free up space for expansion! Either way I'm seeing a 3 mpg increase on the runner highway and 8 mpg on my carolla highway. You can disbelieve all you want but I've explained the figures and if that's not good enough you'll just have to settle with what your getting!
Yes during mixed city driving I get 18.92,mpg taking 265/12 gallons! I would say that isn't to bad!! During straight highway travel on trips I get 308 at minimum, take 308/12= 25.6 what I had stated in my initial post to California. Add back in the 2 gallons above the click so 14 gallons.. 308/14= 22 mpg highway..... Is this not clicking yet! The bottom line is I'm not denying I could have a failure as I did not understand the back flow into canister issue but I've yet to have a hiccup on my vehicles as I do drive 80-100 miles a day and work nights in under covered parking so the vehicle rarely sits out in the heat all day and I go through the tank quickly. So again my encouragement is to do this mainly on trips where your gonna drive immediately and burn through the first few gallons quickly to free up space for expansion! Either way I'm seeing a 3 mpg increase on the runner highway and 8 mpg on my carolla highway. You can disbelieve all you want but I've explained the figures and if that's not good enough you'll just have to settle with what your getting!
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smkd13
New member
^^^^ laying down the law 
Bwahahahahaha nice!!!
[MENTION=93491]Schargedtaco[/MENTION] here is the thing. You posted a thread that has been discussed numerous times. Everyone wants more MPGs but the fact is your driving metaphorically a brick on wheels. You don't drive trucks/SUVs for the mileage. You dive them for the comfort and capability.
That being said, the guys on this forum (especially the ones that just posted) are knowledgeable and don't BS around with trying to make things happen that just won't. Experience begets wisdom.
Bwahahahahaha nice!!!
[MENTION=93491]Schargedtaco[/MENTION] here is the thing. You posted a thread that has been discussed numerous times. Everyone wants more MPGs but the fact is your driving metaphorically a brick on wheels. You don't drive trucks/SUVs for the mileage. You dive them for the comfort and capability.
That being said, the guys on this forum (especially the ones that just posted) are knowledgeable and don't BS around with trying to make things happen that just won't. Experience begets wisdom.
Schargedtaco
New member
I completely disagree with that remark. I guess we all need to just take it up the ARS becouse we knowingly bought a brick on wheels. I think a good majority of peeps in here want better mileage but realize there aren't many options if any. I won't deny at all that it really dousnt make sence as I've spoken with several car enthusiasts who are engineers who state it's not logical but possible. The question remains though how many of you have tried it? I haven't heard one, all I hear is reasoning and explanation so until one of you actually tries it you don't actually know for certain now do you? There's been enough energy wasted in this to fill all your tanks. It won't change the mileage I'm seeing so keep tanking up normal. Don't say I didn't let ya know though
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BrianSD_42
New member
The thing is though there are plenty of us on this forum who ARE :usa2: engineers :usa2: (of many types) and can only dream of 22 or 23 MPG on any consistent basis.
There are some who have SC'd trucks and say they get above 20 quite often, many which I do actually believe.
However I have yet to see any convincing source to back up the claim that a standard V6 non-SC 4Runner gets that kind of mileage.
My main position is that all the data points I have seen back up the official MPG numbers of 15-18 average CITY/HWY for non-SC'd trucks.
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mysunroofworks
Member
:lmao:
This is too confusing. I use fuel log on my android phone to track. So far my worst mileage is 17.26, best is 21.41 and avg is 19.36. That seems simple enough to me.
01thunder
New member
i am confused as well. i've tried different things and still getting 16-18. on a good week, i get 260 miles on a tank full.
EatonKyleH
New member
I'm just in here looking for the key....
:hiding:
:hiding:
threadlessclimber
New member
I'm confounded with this thread but I keep reading. MPG has nothing to do with how much gas is in the tank. MPG's are based on the how much fuel is burned against how many miles traveled. The argument could be made that we should never fully fill our gas tanks because of the extra weight but an object this heavy I don't think that factors much. What this thread needs is an adopted standard for formulating MPG's so that every one is using the same math problem. Yesterday I filled the truck when the fuel light came on--the odometer read 278. I filled to the first click and the tank took 13.5 gallons, which means it took 13.5 gallon to get that 278 (20.5 mpg). The over fill equaling more mpg's makes no sense--if I had more gas in the tank I'd travel further but burn more gas, the MPG's are an effect of road, driving, and car maintenances. My truck is a 5speed 3.4 with recent tune. Bought it last year in S. Carolina and drove it home to NH and I never got below a quarter of a tank, never over filled and got an average of 21 mpg's. By the way, the biggest hit on MPG's is using the breaks, so I don't recommend stopping for anything.
