I found "The One", 2001 Sport Ed. TRD SC'd

[quicksilvr]

Dude, if you EVER sell this 4Runner......I'm calling first dibs. But I know you won't. :thumb3:

 

[99NWA4R]

Dude, if you EVER sell this 4Runner......I'm calling first dibs. But I know you won't. :thumb3:

lol i totally call second! just in case

 

[BigFishAllDay]

I'm into it for a little shy of $15K, so hit me with your best offer above that and it's yours!

No really though, I wouldn't sell this thing, even at that price. I couldn't build it again for that money, much less find a 4Runner in the same condition to start with. This one's going the distance... I'm gonna drive it till the wheels fall off!

Thanks for the compliments guys... and for all you hardcore off-road guys reading this thread, those upgrades are coming too. I want to get the engine, s/c, trans, and tuning dialed in so it will be reliable and hold up when I drive the snot out of it, and then it'll be on to the armor, winch, and a locker.

 

[BigFishAllDay]

I got a little more work done today, and just got done ordering a Scangauge II. I'm excited to play with that thing, I've wanted one for awhile and figured I'd jump. This guy sells them for 150 shipped >>> http://scangaugesales.com/ Also I called before I ordered to make sure it was a legit site, and he picked up at 8pm and was more than helpful.

Also, I had to move the transmission cooler. When I bought the vehicle, it was installed in this location:

Behind the bumper, mounted low. The upper brackets were tied into the hood latch support and one of the front crossmembers, but the bottom mounts were attached to the bumper. Well... I have plans of replacing the stock bumper with an ARB or ???, which would leave me with no place for the bottom mounts, except the skidplate bolts, so I decided to move the cooler up in front of the A/C condenser where I mounted my B&M on my '97.

I had to run new lines because the existing ones were too short, so I took advantage of the opportunity to install the trans temp. guage sender in the send line. Now I don't have to deal with draining the lines/adding fluid twice.

New location:

Notice the metal fittings coming off the TRD cooler are now at 90 degree angles toward each other. They don't come like that. You have to back off the torque on the fitting, turn it, and re-torque it. It's the only way I could mount the TRD cooler in this location with the inlet at the top, an the outlet at the bottom.

The smoke test again... looking good... (this is with the truck idling at 600 rpm)

I got the cooler mounted up in it's new location using a mounting kit from B&M. They sell these directly through their site for about $10. They're different from the one's that come with coolers, but they work just the same.

And some shots of the sender... from directly underneath...

...from the pass side...

... and from the front... It's mounted in the send line, about 3 inches from the end of the metal line coming from the transmission.

FYI: FOR A TON OF INFO ON TRANSMISSION COOLERS AND INSTALLATION INFO, CHECK OUT THIS THREAD:

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...oler-transmission-cooler-install-3rd-gen.html

 

[quicksilvr]

Wait....why a temp sender if you just bought a SGII? Curious....


never mind. I see one of your pillar gauges is trans temp...

 

[BigFishAllDay]

That's still a valid question Quicksilver... and that same train of thought is what led to buying the scangauge tonight.

When I was considering what types of guages I wanted to have, I knew for sure I wanted boost, and I need the wideband A/F to tune, and I decided I wanted a trans. temp guage to keep an eye on that too. (I had heard of, but completely spaced the fact that the SG will give you trans. temp on 2000+ model years). So I bought the guages.

Well, tonight after I got done working on the 'runner I was showing my wife the SG and realized it would read trans temp. I wanted to kick myself because I've spent alot of time on the trans. temp guage install.

I decided that while the scangauge will show the trans. temp, I'll prob have it set to monitor other functions most of the time. If I want to see the trans temp I'd have to change the settings while driving (distraction = hazardous driving, right?). On top of that, if I'm on another display with the SG and the trans temps spike, I won't know until I get a warning light on the dash, and by then it's too late. I decided the trans temp is something that's important enough to have a dedicated full time guage, esp. w/the S/C. So..... I'm gonna continue on w/the trans. temp guage install, even though it's redundant, just so I can have the info at a glance at all times.

Also, the pillar guages are the wideband and boost.... the trans temp is going in front of the transfer case shifter.

 

[quicksilvr]

That's still a valid question Quicksilver... and that same train of thought is what led to buying the scangauge tonight.

When I was considering what types of guages I wanted to have, I knew for sure I wanted boost, and I need the wideband A/F to tune, and I decided I wanted a trans. temp guage to keep an eye on that too. (I had heard of, but completely spaced the fact that the SG will give you trans. temp on 2000+ model years). So I bought the guages.

Well, tonight after I got done working on the 'runner I was showing my wife the SG and realized it would read trans temp. I wanted to kick myself because I've spent alot of time on the trans. temp guage install.

I decided that while the scangauge will show the trans. temp, I'll prob have it set to monitor other functions most of the time. If I want to see the trans temp I'd have to change the settings while driving (distraction = hazardous driving, right?). On top of that, if I'm on another display with the SG and the trans temps spike, I won't know until I get a warning light on the dash, and by then it's too late. I decided the trans temp is something that's important enough to have a dedicated full time guage, esp. w/the S/C. So..... I'm gonna continue on w/the trans. temp guage install, even though it's redundant, just so I can have the info at a glance at all times.

Also, the pillar guages are the wideband and boost.... the trans temp is going in front of the transfer case shifter.

Well thought out, I'd probably do the same thing. It will be intriguing to me to see how much difference in temperature you read between the SGII and the analog gauge.

 

[AddictedOffroad]

FWIW, the SCII will also run wide band A/F ratio. I run it on mine.

Also, I have noticed that my Tranny Temp gauge on the A-pillar is not very accurate in comparison to the SCII. I think it has to do with it being mounted up front under the radiator, but still exposed to the elements/air flow. It routinely reads about 30* cooler than the SCII. I definitely trust the SCII more than the gauge. So, at this point the A-Pillar gauge is fairly obsolete.

 

[BigFishAllDay]

Addicted,

I saw that it had display outputs for the O2 sensors, and I know the late model year trucks use a wideband for the front O2 sensor, but I wasn't sure if it would translate that from a voltage reading into the actual A/F ratio on the display. What do you get on your SG2 display? How fast is the refresh rate on it? I guess I'll see soon enough, the thing is supposed to get here by Tuesday.

EDIT: I was just checking out the X-guage info on SG's website and in the far right hand column for the A/F ratio display under notes it has "ratio" so I take that to mean it will give the actual A/F ratio for sensor 1 and 2. Still curious about the refresh rate though.

 

[AddictedOffroad]

Addicted,

I saw that it had display outputs for the O2 sensors, and I know the late model year trucks use a wideband for the front O2 sensor, but I wasn't sure if it would translate that from a voltage reading into the actual A/F ratio on the display. What do you get on your SG2 display? How fast is the refresh rate on it? I guess I'll see soon enough, the thing is supposed to get here by Tuesday.

EDIT: I was just checking out the X-guage info on SG's website and in the far right hand column for the A/F ratio display under notes it has "ratio" so I take that to mean it will give the actual A/F ratio for sensor 1 and 2. Still curious about the refresh rate though.

It refreshes every couple seconds. Mine will give a number around 1453-1489 and fluctuates around that number at idle for instance. I have seen it move as high as 1580 and as low as 1383 depending on WOT or full vacuum.

 

[BigFishAllDay]

For tuning purposes, every couple seconds would be too slow a refresh rate for the wideband info. Having read through the tuning manuals for the URD 7th kit, you need to have instant info on the A/F ratio in order to pinpoint the cells on the fuel/timing maps that need adjustment. The Innovative wideband reacts instantaneously to changes in the A/F ratio so I feel good about having the information that it provides me.

While the SG2 is a very capable instrument, I wouldn't feel comfortable trying to tune with it's A/F ratio output with that kind of refresh rate. Also, as far as I know, it still doesn't provide a boost guage, so the A-Pillar route isn't looking so obsolete after all. All that aside, it's still a nice cosmetic upgrade for the interior and I like it for that aspect if nothing else.

 

[AddictedOffroad]

For tuning purposes, every couple seconds would be too slow a refresh rate for the wideband info. Having read through the tuning manuals for the URD 7th kit, you need to have instant info on the A/F ratio in order to pinpoint the cells on the fuel/timing maps that need adjustment. The Innovative wideband reacts instantaneously to changes in the A/F ratio so I feel good about having the information that it provides me.

While the SG2 is a very capable instrument, I wouldn't feel comfortable trying to tune with it's A/F ratio output with that kind of refresh rate. Also, as far as I know, it still doesn't provide a boost guage, so the A-Pillar route isn't looking so obsolete after all. All that aside, it's still a nice cosmetic upgrade for the interior and I like it for that aspect if nothing else.

True, if you are planning on tuning directly from the gauge, but when you plug it into a laptop(which is how everyone would tune it to begin with) its real-time instant info. The gauge is nothing more than a way to watch it if there is a problem. Which is all the A-pillar gauge should be for as well. The laptop is where the real tuning is taking place and the only place that should be trusted as 100% accurate.

FWIW, I also have a regular OBD-II scanner that pulls info as well for tuning. Both can be plugged into my laptop.

 

[BigFishAllDay]

True, if you are planning on tuning directly from the gauge, but when you plug it into a laptop(which is how everyone would tune it to begin with) its real-time instant info. The gauge is nothing more than a way to watch it if there is a problem. Which is all the A-pillar gauge should be for as well. The laptop is where the real tuning is taking place and the only place that should be trusted as 100% accurate.

Not sure if you're telling me this because you think I'm just winging it here, but I've done my research... countless hours worth... and I know that you do not tune using the output on the gauge. I don't remember even implying that... When I said "having the information that it provides me", I was referring to having both the info on the display, and the output to the laptop. Come on man! Maybe it's just me, but that came off as condescending.

(EDIT:

While the SG2 is a very capable instrument, I wouldn't feel comfortable trying to tune with it's A/F ratio output with that kind of refresh rate.

I think this is the part of my last post where you inferred that I'd be tuning off the gauge's output. I guess I could see how it came across that way, as that sentence implies that if the refresh rate was faster, I might try tuning off the SG2 output, right?)

I'm planning on using the Logworks software that's included with the Innovative W/B, the software for the URD 7th kit, and the CamStudio software that records the laptop's display to tune the vehicle.

Am I understanding you correctly in that you are saying the SG2 will connect to a laptop and output "real time instant info"? Because I was not/am not aware of the SG2 having that capability. Also, I'm familiar with the BR-3, which I plan on getting as well, mainly because the SG2 (as far as I know) will not connect to a laptop, whereas the BR-3 will so you can use the info provided on open/closed loop status, fuel trims, etc to aid in the tuning process.

 

[quicksilvr]

It refreshes every couple seconds. Mine will give a number around 1453-1489 and fluctuates around that number at idle for instance. I have seen it move as high as 1580 and as low as 1383 depending on WOT or full vacuum.

I need to get the xgauge code for this, didn't realize I could see AF/R. I wonder if you can change it to display correctly...like 14.53 instead of 1453.

Interesting that it only varies by basically 1 point from stoich either way.

True, if you are planning on tuning directly from the gauge, but when you plug it into a laptop(which is how everyone would tune it to begin with) its real-time instant info. The gauge is nothing more than a way to watch it if there is a problem. Which is all the A-pillar gauge should be for as well. The laptop is where the real tuning is taking place and the only place that should be trusted as 100% accurate.

FWIW, I also have a regular OBD-II scanner that pulls info as well for tuning. Both can be plugged into my laptop.

SGII connects to computer? It has proprietary software? Whoa, where is all this goodness? I got alot for my $150 if this is true....

 

[quicksilvr]

Not sure if you're telling me this because you think I'm just winging it here, but I've done my research... countless hours worth... and I know that you do not tune using the output on the gauge. I don't remember even implying that... When I said "having the information that it provides me", I was referring to having both the info on the display, and the output to the laptop. Come on man! Maybe it's just me, but that came off as condescending.

(EDIT:

I think this is the part of my last post where you inferred that I'd be tuning off the gauge's output. I guess I could see how it came across that way, as that sentence implies that if the refresh rate was faster, I might try tuning off the SG2 output, right?)

I'm planning on using the Logworks software that's included with the Innovative W/B, the software for the URD 7th kit, and the CamStudio software that records the laptop's display to tune the vehicle.

Am I understanding you correctly in that you are saying the SG2 will connect to a laptop and output "real time instant info"? Because I was not/am not aware of the SG2 having that capability. Also, I'm familiar with the BR-3, which I plan on getting as well, mainly because the SG2 (as far as I know) will not connect to a laptop, whereas the BR-3 will so you can use the info provided on open/closed loop status, fuel trims, etc to aid in the tuning process.

I'm pretty sure you are correct BigFish. Your Innovative wideband and software is the way to go.

How much wiring is required to get it into the ECU? And are the pinouts pretty easy to follow? I'm just really curious, because no one really tunes 4runners here on the forum. And I like this stuff!

 

[BigFishAllDay]

The Innovate doesn't feed into the factory ECU at all. Wiring it up is relatively straightforward, a couple of grounds, a couple connections to the gauge (which is actually optional), and a power wire. The guage is really an add on feature that, like Addicted said, allows you to keep an eye on the AFR's at all times to watch for problems. You could still use the Innovate wideband strictly for tuning, and never hook up a gauge. The Innovate has two wires coming off the control box that look like headphone jacks, and you plug an adaptor that they provide (headphone jack to serial port) in between the Innovate control box and a laptop. They provide a powerful software called LogWorks that you upload to the laptop, and the software interprets the data from the wideband for use in the tuning process.

The hard part (as I found out this afternoon) is getting the section of the exhaust system containing the catalytic converters out from underneath the truck to have the bung for the wideband 02 sensor welded in. I had to call on all my Tetris skills to get that thing out of there today. (This may be easier or harder for some guys depending on their exhaust setup)

Beyond that, URD's software contains the fuel/timing maps that you configure and then save to the URD controller. Once saved, those maps control the operation of the additional injector and the stock ECU's timing.

Then you have the BR-3 which is like the scanguage, except it's just a box and a cable that interprets the OBD2 info from the ECU into a software that you load on the laptop. That info is in real time, and is very accurate. You use this to see what the ECU is doing with regard to fuel trims and timing advance, so you know what values to put into the maps on the URD software.

Finally, you have the CamStudio, which records everything that transpires on the screen of your laptop during a tuning run. So you get the truck out there, run it, pull over and playback the recording and see what everything was doing, make the necessary adjustments, then do it again and again until you've got it dialed in.

The goal is to get the ECU to a point where it's got to do as little work as possible in terms of fuel trims, while giving it the largest regulating range possible in terms of timing advance/re t a r d, in order to allow it to hit the target AFR without pinging.

This will be my first time tuning a vehicle, so I'm learning as I go, but you know I'll post things up as I figure them out.

 

[quicksilvr]

Wow, lots of hardware to make this all work. But thanks for the explanation, I was horribly curious what was getting tuned. It sounds like just the 7th injector and the spark timing. And you want it tuned such that the factory ecu is operating as close to factory specs as possible, in regards to both timing and fuel. Makes sense to me!

 

[Black02]

OH...MY...GOD...Im going to follow this to the letter....

I bought a Really nice 02 runner sport edition less than a year ago.

Like an idiot I didn't research the super charger issues and Mine pings really bad and has gotten worse. WHY, I don't know. NOW I know, and i the fix is the 7th injector kit...correct?

Your 7th was already installed when you bought it, but you seem to have a great wealth of knowledge, so Im wondering how difficult it is to install and will it really solve the ping issue?

Cheers to you man...keep it up!
:cheers:

 

[BigFishAllDay]

Black02,

I noticed you're in CA, near sea level, which causes these trucks to ping much more commonly than at higher elevations. I bet if you took a drive up into the Sierras one weekend, you'd notice the pinging decrease as you got higher and higher in elevation. The denser air you've got at sea level helps that fuel light off in the cylinders easier than the thin air at high elevations, which results in more ping.

A 7th injector setup would probably take care of your problems. In the meantime, there's two things you can do to help the situation.

1. Replace the spark plugs with some cooler plugs... Most people recommend two steps cooler, some people get away with one step cooler. There's a thread over on YT that has some great info on spark plugs for S/C'd 3.4's.. read though it and you'll get a good understanding of "cooler plugs." I've got a set of Denso IK22's that I'm gonna put in mine shortly. I'm not sure what's in there now, I haven't pulled the plugs since I bought it.

Link >>> Spark plug part numbers for Supercharged engines - YotaTech Forums

2. Do the "Free FMU" (Fuel Management Upgrade). It's a really easy way to get an extra 6-8psi of fuel pressure under boost. If you've got the 2nd gen (black) supercharger, look at the back of it and you should see either a brass nipple, or a brass plug. If you have the nipple on there, it may be capped, mine was. All you have to do is run a vacuum line from that brass nipple (which is a boost port for the S/C for hooking up things like boost guages, the URD computers, etc.) to the fuel pressure regulator. When the supercharger is installed, usually the vacuum line coming off the FPR is run to the intake tube between the airbox and the throttle body. The FPR is referencing atmospheric pressure here, but if you move the vacuum line to the boost port it will reference your boost pressure, and will give you more fuel pressure, which should help with the ping.

I'd try those two things first and see if it helps. If not, it might be time to look at adding a 7th injector kit from URD or TRD's 7th injector. The installation on both is pretty straightforward, but you'll have to do some wiring (one of my least favorite jobs). The TRD 7th is practically plug and play and could probably be done in 3-4 hours tops. The URD kit has quite a bit more involved.

I'm going to be removing my TRD 7th and converting to a URD 7th setup. I'll be re-using the TRD fuel injector, but the rest of the TRD 7th kit will be coming out... all it would need is an injector to be a complete kit, and I may sell it once I get the URD kit dialed in. If so, I'll keep you in mind.

 

[Black02]

Black02,

I noticed you're in CA, near sea level, which causes these trucks to ping much more commonly than at higher elevations. I bet if you took a drive up into the Sierras one weekend, you'd notice the pinging decrease as you got higher and higher in elevation. The denser air you've got at sea level helps that fuel light off in the cylinders easier than the thin air at high elevations, which results in more ping.

A 7th injector setup would probably take care of your problems. In the meantime, there's two things you can do to help the situation.

1. Replace the spark plugs with some cooler plugs... Most people recommend two steps cooler, some people get away with one step cooler. There's a thread over on YT that has some great info on spark plugs for S/C'd 3.4's.. read though it and you'll get a good understanding of "cooler plugs." I've got a set of Denso IK22's that I'm gonna put in mine shortly. I'm not sure what's in there now, I haven't pulled the plugs since I bought it.

Link >>> Spark plug part numbers for Supercharged engines - YotaTech Forums

2. Do the "Free FMU" (Fuel Management Upgrade). It's a really easy way to get an extra 6-8psi of fuel pressure under boost. If you've got the 2nd gen (black) supercharger, look at the back of it and you should see either a brass nipple, or a brass plug. If you have the nipple on there, it may be capped, mine was. All you have to do is run a vacuum line from that brass nipple (which is a boost port for the S/C for hooking up things like boost guages, the URD computers, etc.) to the fuel pressure regulator. When the supercharger is installed, usually the vacuum line coming off the FPR is run to the intake tube between the airbox and the throttle body. The FPR is referencing atmospheric pressure here, but if you move the vacuum line to the boost port it will reference your boost pressure, and will give you more fuel pressure, which should help with the ping.

I'd try those two things first and see if it helps. If not, it might be time to look at adding a 7th injector kit from URD or TRD's 7th injector. The installation on both is pretty straightforward, but you'll have to do some wiring (one of my least favorite jobs). The TRD 7th is practically plug and play and could probably be done in 3-4 hours tops. The URD kit has quite a bit more involved.

I'm going to be removing my TRD 7th and converting to a URD 7th setup. I'll be re-using the TRD fuel injector, but the rest of the TRD 7th kit will be coming out... all it would need is an injector to be a complete kit, and I may sell it once I get the URD kit dialed in. If so, I'll keep you in mind.

Thank you very muc for the info! I will definetly do the plugs soon!

I just went out to do the FMU mod and the vacuum line to the airbox is already plugged. the brass fitting on the back of the SC has a line coming out if it into what looks like a vacuum looking fitting. I couldnt even find the FMU AT ALL... Unless I just dont know what it looks like! Man Im pissed...I was looking forward to this mod too!

Now about the plugs. Lots of information for me to soak up, but the general consensus has been that the IK22's dont last long. is there another option to use? Why are you going to use them and not one of the others mentioned in that thread?

I MIGHT be able to get the 7th injector unit from the URD web site in a month or two. How soon do you think you will be taking yours off? I thought the URD 7th setup was an add on, not replacement.

Thanks again for all the info!!


edit:
What is the difference between the URD and TRD 7th kit? Which is better?