I rented a 2003 to see how it fit.

[RL Lemke]

Since my 2004 4Runner (V8 4x4 Sport) is still months away from delivery, I decided to rent one for a long weekend to see how it fit me. I rented a 2003 SR5 4x2 V6 for a trip to the Ozarks to host my annual motorcycle ride and enjoy the fall foliage.

This was my first extended drive in a "real" SUV. First impressions are:

1) 4 wheel drive is a MUST even with good road conditions. Where the front end is under steering when going around tight mountain corners flooring a 2 wheel drive does not help. Permanent 4 wheel drive in the same situation snaps back the turning motion and pulls thru the corner. The traction differences when on gravel and dirt roads are frightening. When climbing muddy dirt Forest Service switchbacks the 2 wheel drive is like steering a boat with a tiller. Permanent 4 wheel drive allows me to rip on muddy dirt roads.

2) The 4Runner takes the Forest Service road water bars and invisible rocks very well. The reaction of the suspension is predictable and shows no bump steer.

3) If one were prone to carsickness the rough road ride would cause a need for barf bags. I cannot imagine owning a SUV with the horse and buggy suspension of a pick-up. I became used to the jerky ride, but cannot say I like it. In life there are trade-offs. I have decided to give up on a compliant ride in exchange for more off-road ability.

4) The V6 is OK, but I am glad I am getting a 5-speed transmission and the extra two cylinders. Pulling a dirt bike trailer I got 16.4 indicated mileage.

5) The 4Runner is very quiet. I find all of the controls very good. The windshield wipers cleared an exceptional portion of the glass area.

6) The high dash makes seeing where the vehicle is more difficult than my other vehicles. I am 6'2" tall and I had to lift the seat most of the way up to see where the left fender was. This may just be the nature of the beast.

7) Backing down mountain trails was not too bad. The exceptional side view mirrors really helped. The opening rear window allowed for a clear view when I was driving with my head turned to watch behind the vehicle.

8) I found I could carry a lot more stuff in back when the shelf was flat. I wish I did not order it now.

9) The headlights did a very good job of illuminating the mountain roads.

and 10) The 4Runner pulled the dirt bike trailer like it was not there. Even backing the trailer up was easy.

I am still glad I have a 4Runner on order. The items I did not like are a fair trade for the off-road abilities the vehicle offers.

 

[RL Lemke]

Water Crossing

Here is one of the water crossings I made this weekend. The Ozark National Forest offers so many excellent travel options.

 

[jharris2]

Renting a vehicle before you buy is a good way to test it out. Glad you like what you bought -- V6 or V8, you can't go wrong.

Now -- how much longer before yours comes in?

 

[RL Lemke]

Now -- how much longer before yours comes in?

I have had my order in for more than a month. Still, Toyota has not accepted it. I don't expect to see it for five months.

 

[RL Lemke]

One more photo

I think there are endless miles of quiet dirt roads in the Ozark National Forest. I was out in the forest all day and hardly ever saw another soul. To keep from getting lost I use a Garmin 176C and the Forest Service map.

 

[Good Times]

The items I did not like are a fair trade for the off-road abilities the vehicle offers.

Still better than any SUV out there in it's class or even other classes.

Don't forget it's usually 90% driver skills and 10% vehicle! I've seen some stock vehicles do miracles.

Hope ya get ur 4runner soon!

 

[RL Lemke]

By far, the smoothest 4x4 I have ever used. I am amazed how smooth Toyota got the 4R. Maybe it's because I'm coming from suv's and trucks while you are coming from cars?

That is it exactly. I am used to ripping down mountain roads in a Subaru Outback. What caused me to order the 4Runner was the updates of the 4th generation, the better trailer towing, and the better off-road ability. I am willing to give up the better road ride and rally handling. I'm not picking on the 4Runner, just saying it like I see it. I really like the 4Runner overall. It is the only SUV I would even consider outside of the Toureg. With the Toyota I get a vehicle I can rely on to get me out of the middle of any forest. Since I am part of that very small percentage that actually goes off-road a lot, I need the capabilities the 4Runner offers. The Toureg is still suffering from teething problems.

As for my lust for blacktop lust for speed the 4Runner did an admirable job of handling every 15 mph switchback, while pulling a trailer. For real speed I will focus on the motorcycles more.

Below is a photo of one more of the hundreds of creek crossings I have found in the Ozarks. You can see why I need to switch to a more capable off-road rig.

 

[Thai]

A few comments:

1. I assume that you have driven a 4wd along the same road (since you don't have your 4runner yet). Actually, in theory, 4wd will cause UNDERSTEER more than 2wd. However, Torsen does limit the understeer by putting more power to the rear axle. But, if you want to "feel" better going around a corner, then 2wd will provide more "feel" (more oversteer feel) because 100% of power to rear wheels (think RWD sports car). AWD sports cars cannot compete with RWD cars in terms of road feel and DRY handling.

Yes, when climbing a dirt road, it's better to have 4wd.

2. That's the beauty of independent front suspension vs. solid axle.

3. I agree with above...the new 4runner has one of the smoothest ride of any solid rear axle SUV. Maybe you should think about getting those car-based SUVs (Explorer, Pilot, MDX, Highlander, etc.), who has independent suspension all-around.

If you were to get XREAS suspension, then the off-road ride may be slightly better controlled. XREAS has monotube shocks which are firmer but have better control and less fading.

4. True, more so on the highway than city.

5. True.

6. Nature of the beast. Lack of headroom is the culprit in my opinion. Same for my '02 4runner. However, my '02 is a lot slimmer so it's easier to maneuver.

7. I truly think the rearview mirrors on 4runners are the best around!


I think that you should testdrive an XREAS-4runner. It's a bit firmer than standard.

Good luck.

 

[Thai]

As far as the Touareg is concerned, i am still not convinced of it's abilities:

1. No suspension travel...please see pics in COMPARISONS section. Unlike the Range Rover, the Touareg does not have cross-linking shocks to improve it's wheel articulation.

2. Rear differential locker and center differential are CLUTCH-based...more wear-and-tear and not as quick acting as the Torsen unit in 4runner.

3. Unknown reliability...could be really bad. VW and Audi are known for their interiors...but their quality/durability is far from top-notch, which i think is very important in an off-roader. This is also VW's first jump into SUV-category.

4. It looks like a bloated station wagon!

5. It's side slope, water crossing ability, and hill climb are nothing special...despite what VW advertises.

6. It looks like a bloated station wagon!

The ONLY thing i like is the new V10 turbodiesel engine. Other than that, if i were to spend some $$, then i would go all the way and get the new RANGE ROVER or the proven Lexus LX470.

Otherwise, i would get a 4runner or Land Cruiser or GX470/LX470.

My opinion.

 

[RL Lemke]

Re: Re: I rented a 2003 to see how it fit.

I assume that you have driven a 4wd along the same road (since you don't have your 4runner yet). Actually, in theory, 4wd will cause UNDERSTEER more than 2wd. However, Torsen does limit the understeer by putting more power to the rear axle. But, if you want to "feel" better going around a corner, then 2wd will provide more "feel" (more oversteer feel) because 100% of power to rear wheels (think RWD sports car). AWD sports cars cannot compete with RWD cars in terms of road feel and DRY handling.

I have driven over the same roads numerous times with different vehicles. Mostly the AWD Subaru. I used to drive RWD sports cars and have even competed in the SCCA Solo Series. I have a real passion for the grip I find in permanent 4-wheel drive. If I am going into a corner hot, I can get the front end to snap back to the line I want by applying more throttle. Yes, RWD can be power steered to the correct alignment but it requires more skill. Maybe this snap back feature is limited to Subaru. I don

 

[Thai]

I don't think that there's an argument which system (4wd vs. 2wd) is better over unpredictable roads.

 

[peter78]

As far as the Touareg is concerned, i am still not convinced of it's abilities:

Thai, haven't seen the comerical where the Touareg goes over the snow bank 3 feet tall??? I am sure it could go to the Mall and other wild places just fine.

 

[jharris2]

Thai, haven't seen the comerical where the Touareg goes over the snow bank 3 feet tall??? I am sure it could go to the Mall and other wild places just fine.

Kind of like the old Grand Cherokee commercial where it ran under the snow? Or the Explorer commercial where the woman picks up her husband from the submarine on the polar ice cap?

 

[peter78]

Speaking of Commericals

"While Volkswagen of America insists the Touareg can safely tow Sinclair's Airstream, unbelievably, the company now admits its nationwide TV and magazine campaign is misleading. The ads showing a larger Airstream being towed are a gimmick, they're simply not true!

"We did make a mistake." Volkwagen's embarrassed Press Relations Manager spoke with us via satellite from Detroit. Tony Fouladpour admitted the tongue weight of the trailer in the ad is too heavy for the Touareg, a fact VW's marketing department failed to check.

"It's our first SUV and our marketing folks wanted to be very dramatic in what the car can do,

 

[sliaa]

RL Lemke

Do you have snorkel or somethin in ur 4r ?? I did not know that 4runner can cross river that deep.

 

[Iman74]

I do not really get all the technical aspect

However, in the beginning of this thread there was mention about being car sick by the bumping and shaking. Now being that other than the driver seat, I have been in the passenger for those long drives and I let my wife drive (me being nervious) I do not notice it. But I got complaints from my wife and her sister-inlaw about when they are in the back they feel like they are getting car sick. This is on streets only, but conditions go from one extreme to the other. Has anyone else been getting these comments/complaints?