I want to go fast offroad

[rideexileex]

What’s a flutter valve and how do you get the setup you’re talking about? I’d love to know more about it

Off-Road Shock Tuning Guide | How To Tune and Valve Off-Road Racing Shocks

 

[Iron duke]

The best cheap option is

-Bilstein 6112 shocks up front
- air down some very strong C rated tires
-good sway bar link setup adjusted properly
-5160 Bilstein rears
- whatever rear spring (2890 ome gives me way more rear travel before hitting the Duro bumps.
-Duro bumps
-sort out the panhard bar once above 1.5-2" lift.

Your in the $1500-$1700 ish range I'd say with those parts. I can rally rough fire roads in the 40 to 60 mph range pretty easily. That's going to be as good as you can go without getting too far in the custom parts and that will still keep it a regular-ish vehicle.

Beyond that, things get a lot more complicated and way more expensive.

I'm going to probably say something that may not resonate well here. But if your goal is truly extremely high speed, I think you have the wrong machine. You need, most likely a side-by-side with some awesome travel and power. Even long traveled out 3rd gen or 4th gen with extra power, is still not going to perform like a Can-Am or a razor. It's the power to weight ratio always that determines the outcome.

Go find a used or new side by side, get it financed on the cheap and go rally.

If your requirement was hey, I need a full body vehicle with air conditioning, five seats, I want to do some spirited offloading, maybe some crawling, and still have space for luggage, then yeah, you have the perfect rig.

But a full body rig for the all out speed rally..... naw. It'll never deliver on your expectations. Get a turbo side by side. Once you need beyond the factory suspension capability seek out the companies that can do better. My neighbor spent $4000 on valving and springs for his to 2 seat can am turbo. It's a monster. Quite literally eats large bumps like nothing. Bumps that would break my 4runner in half at 65. Of course, he used to race stock cars, has a basement full of trophies, and wasn't too sad when he wrecked the roll cage on it and we put a new one on. So there's that I guess. But he also goes to Yuma Arizona in the winter time and they will rally their side-by-side's into Mexico doing hundreds of miles per day of road. They run the helmet radios, neck braces and the whole bit.

If speed is what you are really after, I think you are wasting your time with a 3rd gen 4runner. I say this as a guy that absolutely loves 3rd gens as it is probably my favorite vehicle.

I do wish it had power like my 2023 tundra through. That damn thing launches like a roller coaster.

For sure, I totally understand and I think for baja 1000 type driving the 3rd gens would be like how the stock beetle class would be lol. That just isn't the type of terrain I'm on though. just long straight washboard roads. I can get up to the desired speed I want, it's just the 5100's up front are terrible. out back I have OME 890's on Fox 2.0x12 Reservoir shocks. Rear end is keeping up just fine it's just the front end that's garbage. I have a dirt bike for crazier things, but I just wanted to spice up the daily.

 

[thezentree]

For flat dirt roads through pine forests? Some kind of rebuildable 2.5" coilover, UCAs, durobumps, and like 25psi in your tires ought to get you into plenty of trouble.

Just watch out for holes appearing out of nowhere - you're still rocking basically a stock suspension.

 

[Iron duke]

For flat dirt roads through pine forests? Some kind of rebuildable 2.5" coilover, UCAs, durobumps, and like 25psi in your tires ought to get you into plenty of trouble.

Just watch out for holes appearing out of nowhere - you're still rocking basically a stock suspension.

Definitely going on a low speed sweep before giving it the goose for anything that could mess me up. Got the UCA's, I need new bumpstops anyways so that's a good thing to know. Would 2.5's be to stiff for essentially stock weight? Or is it just more oil capacity for more cooling, and spring rate and valving have the most impact on that.

 

[Devbot]

Just watch out for holes appearing out of nowhere - you're still rocking basically a stock suspension.

That "whrrrrTHUMP-THUMP" sound of slamming the brakes too late is burned into my brain :lol:

 

[thezentree]

Definitely going on a low speed sweep before giving it the goose for anything that could mess me up. Got the UCA's, I need new bumpstops anyways so that's a good thing to know. Would 2.5's be to stiff for essentially stock weight? Or is it just more oil capacity for more cooling, and spring rate and valving have the most impact on that.

Yeah the 2.5" vs 2" just gives you more oil for better shock cooling. I'm sure the bigger diameter piston helps with damping too, but I won't claim to know anything about that. Spring rate is going to have a much bigger effect on how stiff the ride is. If you're really concerned with shock tuning, you might consider buying your shocks through someone like Accutune. I have off the shelf Kings with 600lb springs that I think ride great.

If you end up shelling out the cash for fancy coilovers, make sure they're rebuildable, like King or Fox. For as much money as they cost, anything that isn't rebuildable is going to end up costing you double (looking at you, Toytec).

That "whrrrrTHUMP-THUMP" sound of slamming the brakes too late is burned into my brain :lol:

haha yep, been there too.

 

[Romeo1]

For sure, I totally understand and I think for baja 1000 type driving the 3rd gens would be like how the stock beetle class would be lol. That just isn't the type of terrain I'm on though. just long straight washboard roads. I can get up to the desired speed I want, it's just the 5100's up front are terrible. out back I have OME 890's on Fox 2.0x12 Reservoir shocks. Rear end is keeping up just fine it's just the front end that's garbage. I have a dirt bike for crazier things, but I just wanted to spice up the daily.

Get a better front coils and some Duro bumps and call it a day then. I really have enjoyed my 6112's so far.

 

[97t4r81]

Hey bud, all great responses. I only want add that you might want to think about the abs on these rigs, it’s primitive and has caused issues before. Hope you enjoy the machine and the outdoors.

 

[Iron duke]

Yeah the 2.5" vs 2" just gives you more oil for better shock cooling. I'm sure the bigger diameter piston helps with damping too, but I won't claim to know anything about that. Spring rate is going to have a much bigger effect on how stiff the ride is. If you're really concerned with shock tuning, you might consider buying your shocks through someone like Accutune. I have off the shelf Kings with 600lb springs that I think ride great.

If you end up shelling out the cash for fancy coilovers, make sure they're rebuildable, like King or Fox. For as much money as they cost, anything that isn't rebuildable is going to end up costing you double (looking at you, Toytec).

Oh for sure. I'd definitely want to go Fox (just because I like the DSC) from Accutune because of the custom tune like you mentioned if I can afford it. I'll have to read up on 2.0 vs 2.5, but if I can afford it, I'll be getting the best (buy once cry once).

Get a better front coils and some Duro bumps and call it a day then. I really have enjoyed my 6112's so far.

Ok, that's really good insight. Less than $800 for 2.5's is very decent.

Hey bud, all great responses. I only want add that you might want to think about the abs on these rigs, it’s primitive and has caused issues before. Hope you enjoy the machine and the outdoors.

For sure man, I've actually removed the ABS feature for this reason. It almost messed me up and I've only driven vehicles without ABS, so I know how to brake without it for sure. Enjoying the machine and outdoors are why we do what we do haha

 

[chapolito]

Curious if everyone's input here would also apply to moderate speeds on dirt roads? I do a lot of under 40mph driving, and the car feels like it is about to shake into a million pieces on washboards. I suspect the Bilstein 4600 are largely to blame.
[MENTION=158195]thezentree[/MENTION] how do you kings feel on washboards?

 

[Romeo1]

Oh for sure. I'd definitely want to go Fox (just because I like the DSC) from Accutune because of the custom tune like you mentioned if I can afford it. I'll have to read up on 2.0 vs 2.5, but if I can afford it, I'll be getting the best (buy once cry once).



Ok, that's really good insight. Less than $800 for 2.5's is very decent.



For sure man, I've actually removed the ABS feature for this reason. It almost messed me up and I've only driven vehicles without ABS, so I know how to brake without it for sure. Enjoying the machine and outdoors are why we do what we do haha

I think if you like to drive hard/sported, you'll appreciate a digressive shock like the 6112. For the price it's really difficult to beat. Is there a better valving out there with custom valving? Possibly. There's a point though where you really start splitting hairs and it's no longer a value proposition. Not to mention the trade off in life cycle. For me it was easy. I dislike a boaty squishy suspension. There's times they are better, as long as you have enough travel. I greatly prefer a tight firm setup over a tippy boaty one. That 6112 coil over setup gave me the very predictable, flat handling nature and it rally's very very well with a very acceptable level of low speed road driving comfort for me.

Ride quality is all relative. I came from a world of driving grain and farm trucks with Hendrickson walking beams and camel backs. Everything rides awesome after that[emoji481]. Some people state they feel that the Bilsteins are harsh rising though. I think my 4runner rides like a cloud compared to my old 97' F350, so I don't know.......

I think if a person is going to go crazy and spend $4,000-$5000 on shocks, it would be very, very hard not to want to move into the electronic valving world. Looks like SDI is getting ready to release a Tacoma setup. The already offer an electronic reservoir. Let's face it, that's where the future is. For now, I'm happy with the 6112/5160/Duro bump combo. If I ever get a chance to have an electronic set up with internal bumps though, that's probably going to be a shut up and take my money right effing now situation....lol...

 

[Romeo1]

Whatever shocks you get though, do add some Duro bumps. They'll change your life.

 

[thezentree]

Whatever shocks you get though, do add some Duro bumps. They'll change your life.

HUGE bang for the buck with these.

 

[thezentree]

Curious if everyone's input here would also apply to moderate speeds on dirt roads? I do a lot of under 40mph driving, and the car feels like it is about to shake into a million pieces on washboards. I suspect the Bilstein 4600 are largely to blame.

[MENTION=158195]thezentree[/MENTION] how do you kings feel on washboards?

I think short of aired down 40s on trophy truck suspension you're always going to feel washboards, but these Kings are definitely better than the Toytecs I had before that. It had blown factory shocks when I got it, and I lifted it not long after I bought it so I don't really have much of a baseline. I will say that I have 5100s on my half ton GMC and they give a much firmer ride.

I can hit the railroad crossing behind my office at like 50, get all four tires off the pavement, and land with relative comfort with the Kings and durobumps though.

 

[Iron duke]

I think if you like to drive hard/sported, you'll appreciate a digressive shock like the 6112. For the price it's really difficult to beat. Is there a better valving out there with custom valving? Possibly. There's a point though where you really start splitting hairs and it's no longer a value proposition. Not to mention the trade off in life cycle. For me it was easy. I dislike a boaty squishy suspension. There's times they are better, as long as you have enough travel. I greatly prefer a tight firm setup over a tippy boaty one. That 6112 coil over setup gave me the very predictable, flat handling nature and it rally's very very well with a very acceptable level of low speed road driving comfort for me.

Ride quality is all relative. I came from a world of driving grain and farm trucks with Hendrickson walking beams and camel backs. Everything rides awesome after that[emoji481]. Some people state they feel that the Bilsteins are harsh rising though. I think my 4runner rides like a cloud compared to my old 97' F350, so I don't know.......

I think if a person is going to go crazy and spend $4,000-$5000 on shocks, it would be very, very hard not to want to move into the electronic valving world. Looks like SDI is getting ready to release a Tacoma setup. The already offer an electronic reservoir. Let's face it, that's where the future is. For now, I'm happy with the 6112/5160/Duro bump combo. If I ever get a chance to have an electronic set up with internal bumps though, that's probably going to be a shut up and take my money right effing now situation....lol...

The thing is I love the boaty feel. I hate my 5100’s because then valving is digressive so it blows through travel on larger stuff and becomes really stiff on the small stuff. I’d rather have less handling and super soft in the first little bit of travel and then have it firm up over larger hits. I also have essentially no added weight so that plays a part too.

Whatever shocks you get though, do add some Duro bumps. They'll change your life.

Definitely on the list. I was thinking air bumps, but the tech in this seems 80% as good for 1/2 the price

 

[Romeo1]

Sounds like you may need something progressively valved then. You may almost need to purchase your own gas, oil, and learn how to valve them yourself. Custom valving and budget minded tend to be mutually exclusive things.

I think tire pressure plays way more of a role in the small stutter bumps that shocks myself.

If the 5100s were blowing through for you, the question I would ask his do you have enough spring rate?

 

[Romeo1]

HUGE bang for the buck with these.

Yeah. They really are a great deal in my opinion.

 

[Romeo1]

I think short of aired down 40s on trophy truck suspension you're always going to feel washboards, but these Kings are definitely better than the Toytecs I had before that. It had blown factory shocks when I got it, and I lifted it not long after I bought it so I don't really have much of a baseline. I will say that I have 5100s on my half ton GMC and they give a much firmer ride.

I can hit the railroad crossing behind my office at like 50, get all four tires off the pavement, and land with relative comfort with the Kings and durobumps though.

I found that just airing down is a real game changer in the washboard. Everywhere really.

Trophy trucks are special though. I always love watching with those guys get the front wheels in the air and seeing how much the front suspension droops out. All 87" of it.....lol. Definitely levels of travel to be envious of, that's for sure.

 

[chapolito]

I think short of aired down 40s on trophy truck suspension you're always going to feel washboards

That will be my goal then! j/k but it is a strong motivator to bump up from stock to 35s...it won't make washboards go away, but it sure will help.

 

[Zhehan]

Sounds like you may need something progressively valved then. You may almost need to purchase your own gas, oil, and learn how to valve them yourself. Custom valving and budget minded tend to be mutually exclusive things.

I think tire pressure plays way more of a role in the small stutter bumps that shocks myself.

If the 5100s were blowing through for you, the question I would ask his do you have enough spring rate?

Good points and I think that a Digressive Shocks should be paired with Progressive Springs that match your vehicle weight and intended usage.