Icon, Fox, King...

[wfo9]

It's heat and pressure that become the downfall of most shocks...

If you buy something like a 2.5" remote rez shock, then you have a much larger thermal envelope than someone running a regular ole small body shock.

In a city truck I am not saying the shock would be maintenance free, but logic and common sense should help dictate the answer.

There is just not really much heat at all in most normal driving conditions. Yes, if you go fast offroad..But even trail use really puts no heat into the shock. If you do go fast off-road in rough conditions for extended periods... lots of heat can be created and many shocks will fail.

The remotes help with heat and allow for more oil volume... But it really does nothing to take stress off the seals and wear bands...which is mostly what the service interval is about.

Personally I like two approaches for shocks.

OME nitro charger - if ride quality is not that big of a deal the twin tube design can't be beat for durability as nothing else even compares long term. If you are going to sacrifice a bit on ride quality.. might as well get extreme durability.

If you are going to run a mono tube... just run quality stuff like Icon, Fox, or King....Because they all wear out anyway... might as well get something rebuild-able and enjoy the high quality ride vs the compromise.

 

[marshal]

Race level maintenance? no. I see your point but you're also exaggerating. Especially if he's in a dry climate. :tea:

am i?

 

[Jetboy]

No matter what you do with them - the spherical bushings will only last 3-5 years. In my view that's not really a "rebuild", but you do have to take them off to replace them. Rubber lasts a lot longer.

As far as rebuild life on the internals - it's a matter of when they leak. The biggest culprit is pitting of the piston rod causing it to wear the seals going into the body. Street use will last a long time without leaking. I think 100k miles wouldn't be out of the question.

If you want them to last longer - skip the reservoir. There's no need for it on a street driven truck. The stroke of the piston on a 4runner is maybe 4 inches. There is more than adequate room to locate the floating piston (the second piston in a monotube shock) inside the main shock body and eliminate the reservoir. I've been having a lot of issues with mine recently and the reservoir is the problem. That's what's requiring a rebuild for me. And it's due to a leaky seal, not something related to heavy use.

The big downside to the rebuild is not he cost. It's cheap. It's the down time. You generally have to mail them somewhere and plan on a week or two of down time. For me I'm going to have to drive through the winter on what I got because I can't ride my bike until spring to mail them in. I've already stripped them down and done the basic seal kit rebuild myself - but it still leaks - and I'm not sure how to fix them beyond that other than replace or get Fox to give it a shot at getting a better seal. Currently Fox's repair service is about a month out from receiving them.

 

[nb rob]

it is a lot of spherical bearings to maintain. And they can get noisy well before seals need replacement.

I think a fair number of king/icon/fox consumer on this board assumes that they will be silent and trouble free for 2+ years. And they maybe don't really have a plan for removing them and sending them away to be rebuilt, if they don't have the tools or patience to do it themselves.

For someone who isn't going to order the parts and rebuild the shocks themselves, I'd recommend shocks with bushings in the eyes. Dobinsons, OME nitrochargers, bilsteins.
Their pricing reflects the service life of them.

 

[wfo9]

A few other notes to add on durability.

In the rear on a mono tube.... adding a shock boot will make a huge difference in longevity. I have no idea why they don''t include these on some brands. I leave them open on the bottom, but it keeps the shaft from getting pitted by rocks... which as stated above is the main point of rebuild. Once the shaft is burred.. it will just keep eating seals.

The spherical bearings are typically only on the coil overs and the lower ones do need maintenance and replacement depending on conditions... (the uppers pretty much last forever from what I have seen). But it is super easy to swap/service them if you are a DIY type person. I've cleaned and lubed mine with dry lube twice and I'm still running the same ones going on 3 years, but I don't put that many road miles on my truck (20k in 3 years).

I actually have set of OME shocks/struts that I keep around for loaner/rebuild/spare. I've never needed to use them myself, but have loaned them out to a few friends while they had their stuff serviced. Most were actually failures from trail damage and not routine rebuilds BTW....The chance of that seems higher if you actually offroad much.. and the remotes seem to clearly add to that damage potential as that has been the case a few times with hose damage....

 

[DesertCanyons]

Rebuilding shocks

... Yes, if you go fast offroad..But even trail use really puts no heat into the shock. If you do go fast off-road in rough conditions for extended periods... .

The remotes help with heat and allow for more oil volume... But it really does nothing to take stress off the seals and wear bands...which is mostly what the service interval is about. ...

Got your point wfo9. Lots of good info here in the 3 or 4 posts above.

If You drive fast offroad plan on breaking other stuff too.

Something everyone seems to be overlooking is that the remote does something else besides increase oil volume and dissipate heat. If you're using a single piston shock without a remote, the shock works as an emulsion shock and the gas is likely to mix with the oil. If you have remote reservoirs then the nitrogen gas is all in the reservoir and the shock piston moves only in oil. :tea:

 

[Jetboy]

Got your point wfo9. Lots of good info here in the 3 or 4 posts above.

If You drive fast offroad plan on breaking other stuff too.

Something everyone seems to be overlooking is that the remote does something else besides increase oil volume and dissipate heat. If you're using a single piston shock without a remote, the shock works as an emulsion shock and the gas is likely to mix with the oil. If you have remote reservoirs then the nitrogen gas is all in the reservoir and the shock piston moves only in oil. :tea:

I can't speak for all of the companies - but the fox shocks without a reservoir still use a floating piston. It's just inside the main shock body. Same setup as the reservoir. It does come at the cost of travel - but in this application that's not an issue. This is just a generic pic of ??, but shows how they are internally.

 

[wfo9]

I can't speak for all of the companies - but the fox shocks without a reservoir still use a floating piston. It's just inside the main shock body. Same setup as the reservoir. It does come at the cost of travel - but in this application that's not an issue. This is just a generic pic of ??, but shows how they are internally.

Yea all the higher end coil overs fox/king/icon use a floating piston for separation of gas and oil . I see no benefit to the remote res from that perspective. It's just where it is located that changes.

 

[honda250xtitan]

Got your point wfo9. Lots of good info here in the 3 or 4 posts above.

If You drive fast offroad plan on breaking other stuff too.

Something everyone seems to be overlooking is that the remote does something else besides increase oil volume and dissipate heat. If you're using a single piston shock without a remote, the shock works as an emulsion shock and the gas is likely to mix with the oil. If you have remote reservoirs then the nitrogen gas is all in the reservoir and the shock piston moves only in oil. :tea:

no they are not emulsion shocks just because they don't have a reservoir. The increased oil volume and extra heat dissipation is negligible for literally everyone on here. Except lawndart on his baja trip. The "biggest" benefit is the extra valving that is located in the resi. Its still a huge f1cking waste of money though. But its dope, sexy, and why not? lol

 

[DesertCanyons]

Remote Reservoir benefits

I can't speak for all of the companies - but the fox shocks without a reservoir still use a floating piston. It's just inside the main shock body. Same setup as the reservoir. It does come at the cost of travel - but in this application that's not an issue. This is just a generic pic of ??, but shows how they are internally.

Not aiming this comment at anyone above, but mostly the last 3 comments above. According to Filthy Motor Sports videos the remote reservoir houses the nitrogen and oil in separate compartments of the remote res'.

What's the use of a high end shock if it limits travel? The two most important benefits of a shock upgrade is stiffness on rough roads and extended, long travel for obstacles. If travel is the same or reduced why bother? Just get spacers and be done with the lift.

 

[Bumbo]

Not aiming this comment at anyone above, but mostly the last 3 comments above. According to Filthy Motor Sports videos the remote reservoir houses the nitrogen and oil in separate compartments of the remote res'.

What's the use of a high end shock if it limits travel? The two most important benefits of a shock upgrade is stiffness on rough roads and extended, long travel for obstacles. If travel is the same or reduced why bother? Just get spacers and be done with the lift.

Because you still get the benefits of a larger diameter shock body for the stroke it does have.

There is no replacement for displacement, and the dampening and the ability to tame/control the load is still improved.

Its the same reason the 6112 is still a better shock option than a 5100. Its not like ur getting more travel, but all the benefits of a large body are present and it absolutely shows even in city driving.

That said, I do agree with you, ur already more than 1/2 way there, you might as well pony up for the big boy stuff.

 

[honda250xtitan]

Not aiming this comment at anyone above, but mostly the last 3 comments above. According to Filthy Motor Sports videos the remote reservoir houses the nitrogen and oil in separate compartments of the remote res'.

What's the use of a high end shock if it limits travel? The two most important benefits of a shock upgrade is stiffness on rough roads and extended, long travel for obstacles. If travel is the same or reduced why bother? Just get spacers and be done with the lift.

Thats not entirely true. A well tuned 12" of travel is better then a shitty 18" of travel (both numbers are way more then a stock track width 4runner.). You do realize that "extended travel" is like .5" of down travel right? that ICON kit you just bought isn't giving that much more travel. But the real benefit you get is the better valving and better control of the vehicle and the unsprung weight. And yeah, the shocks won't overheat. Due to the IFP setup, the oil and air is kept separate, you don't get cavitation, etc. We pay ALOT of money for a 4" stroke shock. Think about that lol. Its just silly.

The resi houses MORE of the oil/air/valving, that doesnt mean theres nothing in the actual shock.

Not even gonna comment on the spacers comment lol, you know better!

 

[honda250xtitan]

That said, I do agree with you, ur already more than 1/2 way there, you might as well pony up for the big boy stuff.

so true, its like a 500$ difference. 2.5" coilover up front with a Fox/icon/radflo 2.0 in the rear.

 

[Bumbo]

You do realize that "extended travel" is like .5" of down travel right? that ICON kit you just bought isn't giving that much more travel.

This...

Extended Travel shocks increase downward travel (droop)...

When you lift the truck, you take away from the amount of droop you have available to you. The point of extended travel is to basically help re-capture some of that center line you moved from lifting. Lift is where you gained compression and gave up droop.

It matters most for people who like the jack the trucks up to the sky and for general performance too. Not enough droop is the difference between a tire falling into a pothole, vs the entire truck falling into a pot hole.

Note: All this still has to function within the factory suspension geometry... also why things like long travel kits exist.

 

[DesertCanyons]

Remote reservoirs

Thanks Bumbo and Honda. Good feedback.

Yes, if you're buying 2 1/2" shocks the remote reservoirs are only a little more money (20-25%) for a great added benefit and dial-in adjust-ability.

As for the spacers, a friend of mine has 2" spacers on his Lexus GX 470 and he has much more ground clearance than I do with my stock 4Runner, and we all know it is the same frame and suspension. I want more than a lift on the same Toyota shocks so I'm upgrading to the ICON Stage 7.

 

[wfo9]

Not aiming this comment at anyone above, but mostly the last 3 comments above. According to Filthy Motor Sports videos the remote reservoir houses the nitrogen and oil in separate compartments of the remote res'.

What's the use of a high end shock if it limits travel? The two most important benefits of a shock upgrade is stiffness on rough roads and extended, long travel for obstacles. If travel is the same or reduced why bother? Just get spacers and be done with the lift.

The remote is just like the main shock body from that perspective. There is a floating piston that keeps the nitrogen separated. It compresses as the shaft goes into the main body and the shaft takes up oil volume space. You could in theory get another inch of travel or so out of the same body as you don't have the floating piston taking up that space... but in our application it makes no difference as the remote vs non-remote versions offer the exact same travel. I'm not saying there is no benefit.. Just that the juice is not worth the squeeze for most avg users. If speed is in you plans.. well worth it. Also the fox adjustment circuitry makes it potentially worth the investment on those particular shocks. The others.. not near as useful. And as far as this thread goes... no difference in service interval.

Another big factor is packaging... Be aware that FOX and KINGs with remote res are not recommend to be pre-load adjusted on the truck. They do say the non-remotes can be done (although it is still not easy). ICON can be done on both styles and one of the reasons I like ICON. However, I would avoid their UCAs as they have been problematic for many.

 

[ADBSR5]

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread so far. Some super good info in here. Very informative.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JSparky]

Remote reservoirs aren't just for wheeling. Do you think they just house extra oil? They are much more complicated than that and they allow from control of compression damping with the clickers. Great for the street just as much as offroad.

Yes, external reservoirs do "just house extra oil" and they are not more complicated than that. You're talking about dampening adjusters, which are an added feature that can be built into them at extra cost. It'd be correct to say that external reservoirs enable you to add dampening adjusters, but it has nothing to do with the reservoir itself.

There's pro's and con's to everything. If you really need the increased cooling capacity an argument could be made for finely-tuned external reservoir coilovers* without adjusters due to the increased heat generated by that second shim stack. Again it's application specific.

What I'd like to to know is why performance street coilovers are built with adjusters in either the base or top of the shock itself, but I'd wager it has something to do with the heat generated in offroad race conditions and overall size and space limitations.

 

[Jetboy]

I think the confusion is that the coilover would bottom out if the IFP were inside the shock. The shock body on the reservoir version is the same as the non-res version. The only difference is that the ifp lives in the reservoir instead of the shock body.

In some cases it's absolutely true that the IFP would reduce the stroke of the shock. That's not the case on the 4runner shocks. They simply don't use all of the available travel either way. The total stroke is less than 4 inches. The difference between a regular and extended travel version is nothing more than removing the rubber limiter bumper from the normal version to become the extended travel version. The reservoirs add oil and some cooling capacity in trade for having to fight with mounting them and deal with essentially a full second shock worth of seals and the hoses. But they look cool!

 

[borfoo3]

Adding to the topic of this thread.. there is truly no replacement for displacement. Going from stock to a bilstein 6112/5160 combo to KING extended travel shocks with resi's and adjusters I really felt the difference as I moved up the chain (this is comparing my relatively high speed off-road/ rough terrain driving experiences.. on tarmac the differences between the two monotube setups aren't as exaggerated as moving up from the boaty stock twin tubes).

Biggest difference felt was by upgrading the rear 2.0" 5160 to the 2.5" KING shocks. This massively improved controlling the rear steel SSO bumper weight and damping the ICON 3" overland coils.
Even before the addition of a steel bumper/ heavy coil setup, the rear end of the 4Runner simply never felt it can 'match' the front end capability as the bigger bored 6112 felt far more composed.

On the other hand, the front 6112 with my mostly stock front weight end never really struggled much in comparison and acted closer to the KINGs than to stock in terms of ride control. With a ~2.36" (60mm) shock body on the 6112 vs the 2.5" KING, this is no surprise.

Comparing the two setups is obviously not a fair comparison.. but the differences are real. So is the price