I'm having issues... Electrically speaking.

[Tucson4runner]

Hey guys,

Pep boys is having a great sale on batteries, 35% off every one in stock, so I decided to upgrade to an optima yellow top. I'm having a few issues that hopefully someone can help me out with... [MENTION=10169]TheDurk[/MENTION] [MENTION=120071]mtbtim[/MENTION] [MENTION=98153]MStudt[/MENTION]

My first issue is that my scan gauge is reading 13.8 volts on start-up. Shouldn't it be higher considering its a new battery? My 4yo duralast was still reading 13.9-14 volts at start-up.

Second, this could have been an issue before but I never use my cruise control so I'm not sure. Driving down the highway, cruise control set to 75, turn on my left blinker to switch lanes and the cruise control shuts off. The cruise light doesn't turn off but it's like I canceled the set point. Doesn't happen with the right blinker only the left. I installed leds in the rear so my blinkers are hyper flashing until the new relay comes in and my right blinker on the front is damaged so that blinker buzzes and stays on. I figured that would be my problem one but that one doesn't mess with the cruise control.

Third and final problem, I have my ditch lights hooked up to my fog light wires so they act as my fogs. Use same switch and relay. I did the fog light mod so they come on independently as well as flash when I press the lock/unlock buttons on my remote. Locked the runner today and the lights flickered and stayed flickering until I turned them off at the stalk switch. Then when I turned the stalk to turn my headlights on everything went dead. Turned it all off and back to only fogs and parking lights and they both turned on, switched headlights on and everything died again. Did it again with the key in acc and it killed everything. Went and popped the hood and inspected the wires and everything looked good. Tried to cause the short again with the hood up and everything worked fine. Shut the hood and for now the problem hasn't happened again.


Not sure what's going on here but any help would be appreciated. I do have a bird's nest of wires for all of my lights until I get my fuse block installed but all connections are secure and all wires are insulated and damage free.

Thanks guys.

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[mtbtim]

Hey Buddy,

I think I can offer an intelligent response to the first question. The scan gauge is showing what your alternator is charging the system at. Supposedly, a fully charged battery should be reading 12.6 volts. What I don't know for sure is if a weak battery could cause you to see a lower value from your charging system. My charging system shows a 13.8 volt output as well via an OBD II reader and the Torque Pro app. So, I don't think there's anything wrong here. But, if you don't have a multimeter or other testing instrument, you could bring your rig to an auto parts store like O'Reilly that will test your battery and charging system for free. There is a very good chance the battery you bought sat for a very long time at that store and lost power.

I wish I could offer you some help on the other problems but I've never messed with automotive electrical other than replacing batteries, a starter and an alternator. Maybe one day I'll learn to diagnose and fix electrical issues.

I'm guessing [MENTION=10169]TheDurk[/MENTION], [MENTION=98153]MStudt[/MENTION] and others will be able to offer you some good advice.

I reckon I'll subscribe so I can learn something.

 

[MStudt]

Hopefully [MENTION=10169]TheDurk[/MENTION] chimes in since he's the electrical guru on here.

The only thing that comes to mind with me are the LED bulbs. I know the LED bulbs have caused issues with cruise control for others, and replacing the relay did help with that issue.

Sorry I can't be more help either.

 

[BrianSD_42]

Did you install an additional fuse box for these accessories? (Blue Sea)

 

[mtbtim]

I read the following from a website so it appears the strength of the battery can affect what the charging system is putting out.

ALTERNATOR CHARGING VOLTAGE

Most alternators that are charging properly should produce a voltage of about 13.8 to 14.2 volts at idle with the lights and accessories off. Always refer to the vehicle manufacturer's specifications. Many Asian vehicles, for example, have higher charging voltages of around 15 volts.

When the engine is first started, the charging voltage should rise quickly to about two volts above base battery voltage, then taper off, leveling out at the specified voltage.

The exact charging voltage will vary according to the battery's state of charge, the load on the vehicle's electrical system, and temperature. The lower the temperature the higher the charging voltage, and the higher the temperature the lower the charging voltage. The "normal" charging voltage on a typical application might be 13.9 to 15.1 volts at 77 degrees F. But at 20 degrees F. below zero, the charging voltage might jump as high as 14.9 to 15.8 volts for a short period of time. On a hot engine on a hot day, the normal charging voltage might drop to 13.5 to 14.3 volts

 

[alumarine]

Voltage reading is just fine.

 

[Tucson4runner]

Did you install an additional fuse box for these accessories? (Blue Sea)

Not yet. Currently have all fuses and relays stuffed into a corner under the hood.

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[Tucson4runner]

Thanks for the input guys. The new relay for the blinkers is in the mailbox so I'll install today and post any changes.

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[kolelt]

Thanks for the input guys. The new relay for the blinkers is in the mailbox so I'll install today and post any changes.

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You shouldn't really need a relay. The stock ones run of a relay.... You probably need LED RESISTOR. As the LED bulb takes less power vs the stock bulb. That's why you have hyper flash.

 

[Tucson4runner]

You shouldn't really need a relay. The stock ones run of a relay.... You probably need LED RESISTOR. As the LED bulb takes less power vs the stock bulb. That's why you have hyper flash.

The new relay supposedly has a resistor to stop the hyper flashing. It's from the same place I bought the led bulbs from.

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[MStudt]

You shouldn't really need a relay. The stock ones run of a relay.... You probably need LED RESISTOR. As the LED bulb takes less power vs the stock bulb. That's why you have hyper flash.

The new relay supposedly has a resistor to stop the hyper flashing. It's from the same place I bought the led bulbs from.

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The new relay will work as the resistor in this situation. Others have added resistors to the bulbs, but the relay is the easiest way to go.

Now if you ad more LED's like the 3rd brake light, or front blinkers. You'll most likely need to add resistors in that situation.

 

[jeremyc74]

13.8V is fine, as long as the voltage stays in that range with your accessories on, the alternator is doing its job. The voltage regulator has temperature compensation circuitry in it that will vary the charge voltage, so there's going to be some fluctuation.

The cruise control is a symptom of the LED blinker issue. I had the same thing when I installed mine.

 

[Tucson4runner]

13.8V is fine, as long as the voltage stays in that range with your accessories on, the alternator is doing its job. The voltage regulator has temperature compensation circuitry in it that will vary the charge voltage, so there's going to be some fluctuation.

The cruise control is a symptom of the LED blinker issue. I had the same thing when I installed mine.

Good to know. I looked up the flickering lights read that it has been a symptom of low voltage but with it reading 13.8 I'm not sure what else could be causing that.

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[jeremyc74]

The new relay supposedly has a resistor to stop the hyper flashing. It's from the same place I bought the led bulbs from.

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The flasher relay works off of the current draw from the bulb. It's designed to hyper flash to let you know the current draw is too low when the bulb is blown. The relay that's designed for LEDs doesn't add a resistor, it's just set for a lower current draw.

Adding a resistor negates one of the major benefits to LEDs (which is the lower current draw) so the new flasher relay is the way to go.

 

[jeremyc74]

Good to know. I looked up the flickering lights read that it has been a symptom of low voltage but with it reading 13.8 I'm not sure what else could be causing that.

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The flickering is a similar issue to the blinkers. The time delay relay that makes the lights flash is designed for a specific current draw, and the new lights are too low for it to work properly.

Check this out if you want to understand it better:

The Thermal Flasher - How Turn Signals Work | HowStuffWorks

 

[Beaumont67]

Hey guys,

Pep boys is having a great sale on batteries, 35% off every one in stock, so I decided to upgrade to an optima yellow top. I'm having a few issues that hopefully someone can help me out with...........

:bash: ^^ I use to swear by Optima battery's, American made - had 2 old ones last between 9 & 10 years each.
- now that USA production is closed & Made in Mexico now, quality has suffered
In Canada, I buy USA made batteries still:
a) AGM battery at Canadian Tire with full 5 year warranty, and $60 cheaper than Optima
b) or get a conventional battery at Walmart, for half the Optima price & still with a full 3 year warranty

Optima yellow top warrenty = 36 months.
Support - Warranties - on or After 2-1-2009 | OPTIMABATTERIES

Interesting Read:
mgoad1971
05-18-2012, 01:19:55 PM / From another forum:
Optima Batteries - Quality Rumors? [Archive] - NastyZ28.com
Its official now. I have worked at Optima Batteries for 11 years. In 2000, Johnson controls bought Optima and immediatly began construction of a plant in mexico. We were told that our U.S. plant could not produce enough product so the plant in mexico would be to supply Europe. Slowly but surely, our product lines began being transferred to mexico. Then the week before Thanksgiving, we were told that the U.S. plant will be closed Jan.24 2009. Just thought you all would like to know.

496z28
My yellow top optima died yesterday.. I bought it 2 months ago. Every red top I have had (3) have failed since Jan this year. I thought, well maybe I need a yellow top for my needs. Nope... I returned the yellow today and got an Oreilly's brand battery..
I did not know Optima went to Mexico.. I'm done with Optima for good!!!

scottw383
That said, I have heard the rumors of declining quality too. One telling piece of data comes right from Optima's website: their warranty got weaker in Feb 2009. The warranty on red top batteries purchased before Feb 2009 was 36 months free replacement, and then pro-rated for another 36 months. After Feb 2009 the warranty is just the 36 month free replacement -- the additional 36 pro-rated months are now gone. I know this doesn't prove anyting, but why would Optima reduce their warranty coverage unless they were losing money on warranty costs? What does that imply about their opinion of their products?
Last week the battery in my wife's car bit the dust, and I was considering an Optima. Having only a 36 month warranty -- on an expensive battery -- was a deal breaker for me.

DEIVIONCRX
Every Optima I've purchased prior to say 08-09 has done me amazingly, still going strong. But it seems to be somethings changed, I've purchased 2 D51R's for my daily driver Civic, all from Advance Auto Parts here locally, I've had nothing but troubles with them. They all seem to develop a dead cell after about 9months to a year. They will hold a surface charge of 12volts, but you put any draw on them after that and they immediately drop to 10v. But I'm not 100% if its Optima or Advance, the others I've purchased in the past usually have come from Autozone, and 90% positive Advance is selling the same battery's over and over. The first one i was offered back in 08 was dirty, scratched up like it was installed on the sides and the terminals were scared up from what looked like cables or alligator style clips. I kept at them till they opened one new in the box for me, that one died and the warranty one they insisted i take was also dirty and scared up. Their explanation was that they had to charge them every so often to keep them topped up. But that never explained the marks and dirt on the casing. I went back after the warranty one gave up the ghost and they couldn't find my warranty info in the computer so i gave up left the battery there and bought a Duralast Gold.

artster
I just registered because I could not keep quiet any longer. I used to be a fan of optima batteries. I have 3 that are 6 - 7 year olds and they are still going. but I have 2 Mexico ones and both have failed in under 2 years. the reason optima says the have a less failures now is because they have made it very difficult for there product to be returned. I can not get warranty on either one. I bought one and lost the receipt. my bad. I thought I would never need it, I did not know they had changed factories. and the other came with my truck. the previous owner had just bought it when he sold me the truck. so no receipt, no warranty. there for neither one counted in "stats" that show they are supposedly better now. I will never buy another optima ever again. and I was a loyal customer,I have bought plenty. at least 15. but they have lost a customer here. and I would not ever recommend one again. I just purchased a USA made sears platinum agm. with 4 years free replacement and 6 years pro rated after that. we will see how it goes.

 

[TheDurk]

The charge voltage is fine. Gel mats are different so don't worry about it. Plus, lower initial voltage is probably a good thing. It means the battery is showing a higher level of charge than the other, all things being equal...which they probably are not.

l can troubleshoot stock wiring over the net because I can put up the wiring diagram and know what's going on. I can't do a 'rat's nest'. Sorry, you're on your own.

 

[cbr900boy]

FYI my scan gauge also reads 13.8 volts at idle. This is the voltage reading at the OBD II plug not the reading at the battery. If you take a multimeter and probe at the terminals you should get a reading above 14 volts at idle.

 

[jeremyc74]

FYI my scan gauge also reads 13.8 volts at idle. This is the voltage reading at the OBD II plug not the reading at the battery. If you take a multimeter and probe at the terminals you should get a reading above 14 volts at idle.

The two voltage readings should be exactly the same. There's no reason for a difference.

 

[cbr900boy]

The two voltage readings should be exactly the same. There's no reason for a difference.

I did this the other day and got 14.3 volts at the battery terminals while seeing 13.8 on my Torque App.