Indicactor lights after timing belt replacement

jacksheadache

jacksheadache

New member
07 with the v8.

Finally got this thing all thrown back together. Started it up, it sounded fine and ran just fine on a short test drive. Parked it, did a coolant change, fired it up and found the an xmas tree on the dash with Check Engine, VSC OFF, Traction Control, and VSC TRAC lights all lit.

Autozone scanned and provided the following codes: P0016 (Crankshaft Position - Camshaft Position Correlation Bank 1), P0012(Crankshaft Position - Camshaft Position Correlation Bank 1), and C1202(A Camshaft Position - Timing Over-Retarted Bank 1

Not sure what is wrong here but very much hoping I don't have to pull the belt again.

For reference, here is the left cam / bank 2(https://imgur.com/DuHvfOz), right cam/bank 1 (https://imgur.com/hU4JP9R), and crank (https://imgur.com/30YBOqP)

If someone could reply with "you forgot to plug the xyz in" that'd be great.


Thanks!
 
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Just had a shop do the WP/TB on mine and it threw P0016 and P0018 for cam position sensor when I went to pick it up. Refused the work and they had to go back into it. There’s a forum post about this code combination which pretty much says “belt is off by a tooth”. I’d be willing to bet you’re off by 1 or more teeth on the belt and it’s not timed properly. Supposedly the vvt can make up for the belt not being exactly timed correctly and keep valves from getting smashed, however, you’ll get codes.

I didn’t tackle this job for fear of the same kind of thing you’re having happen, so definitely get some more opinions before diving back in.

The shop said that they thought the tensioner was maybe not working properly and that it allowed the belt to skip after the first start because they didn’t have codes when they test drove it, so maybe that could explain why your pictures show it matching and no codes on the first run? I think they screwed it up out of the gate and just cleared the codes and hoped I wouldn’t catch it, but their excuse sort of made sense too.

Also, C1202 is showing Brake Fluid Level Low for me in my workshop manual, not the camshaft like you’re saying, are you sure that’s the correct code?
 
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Just my 2 cents but the bottom crank looks off a tooth. Also are you sure you put back the crank position sensor gear correctly?
 
Thank you both for the replies. Had the timing been right I 100% would have had someone else take a stab at this, but it wasn't an option at the time.

Nice catch - typo with the one code, the last one is showing C1201 Engine Control System.

The battery tested bad (it sat for a long time) so I was hopeful that was causing some madness/lights. Ended up replacing it, the codes reset, I once again drove around just fine.. parked and fueled up.. then started it up and 30 seconds later the same lights came on.

4runn34, as far the crank tooth being off - I've been spinning on this for a few days and just noticed that as well... no idea what happened there.. but after noticing that and the battery replacement doing nothing.. unfortunately I decided the next option was to take it apart again.

At this point, I'm hoping that I can adjust the belt and line everything up correctly, being that it doesn't have to be removed entirely (I think?)

Round 2... I guess.


Thanks again
 
Okay so just to be clear, it is P1201, not C1202. P0012, and P0016 point at belt being off a tooth and the P1201 points at the ECM not getting the signal output from the cam position sensor that it expects (I think). I’m guessing you’re off by a tooth. I’m not sure where the cam position sensor is, but bad output there could be the problem, perhaps not plugged in if that’s something you pass along the way to the WP/TB, but I’m leaning more towards the belt not being aligned. The shop tried to tell me that the sensor probably went bad and that their work didn’t cause the code but I called BS in short order on that. The odds of the sensor failing on the first drive after a timing belt job are slim to none.
 
UncleBobby said:
Okay so just to be clear, it is P1201, not C1202. P0012, and P0016 point at belt being off a tooth and the P1201 points at the ECM not getting the signal output from the cam position sensor that it expects (I think). I’m guessing you’re off by a tooth. I’m not sure where the cam position sensor is, but bad output there could be the problem, perhaps not plugged in if that’s something you pass along the way to the WP/TB, but I’m leaning more towards the belt not being aligned. The shop tried to tell me that the sensor probably went bad and that their work didn’t cause the code but I called BS in short order on that. The odds of the sensor failing on the first drive after a timing belt job are slim to none.
Click to expand...

Thanks again. Yeah, that sounds about right. Sorry to hear about the hassle with your vehicle - and agreed on something like failing on the first drive sounds a bit off.

Going to continue to take it back apart as time allows and attempt to double check the cam sensor (not sure where that is either) and then take a look at the belt/cams/and crank alignment 100 times before putting it back together again.
 
Well damn. Anyone have any idea if there's any form of shortcut to line it back up? Or am I looking at taking it all the way back apart?


Thanks
 
There are no shortcuts, unfortunately. Take it apart and get all of those marks lined up. If you haven't already, watch Timmy The Toolman's 2uz tutorial. Very helpful and has all the info you need to do the job right.
 
Zero0575 said:
There are no shortcuts, unfortunately. Take it apart and get all of those marks lined up. If you haven't already, watch Timmy The Toolman's 2uz tutorial. Very helpful and has all the info you need to do the job right.
Click to expand...

Thanks for video recommendation. I'll have to check that one out.
 
thennen said:
In the crank photo, the belt is loose. You did tension it after the photo, I assume?
Click to expand...

Now that you say that.. yeah I'm guessing the pictures were taken before then. I installed the tensioner and pulled the pin.

That's another good point. I'll probably have to replace the tensioner? as it had a one and done pin?
 
jacksheadache said:
Now that you say that.. yeah I'm guessing the pictures were taken before then. I installed the tensioner and pulled the pin.

That's another good point. I'll probably have to replace the tensioner? as it had a one and done pin?
Click to expand...
I don't know. The only one I did was my 2001 and didn't run into that problem. There's probably a trick or work-around somewhere.
 
Alright, so I took it all back apart (fun stuff) and realigned the belt. Here's an image with the L and R cams spot on, and the notch on the crank now aligns with the dot/mark...

https://imgur.com/a/JOhxEd6

Anyone able to sanity check this before I put things back together? and assure me that as long as these 3 points align that everything as far as the timing belt is good to go?

Over thinking this now - obviously it was off already, so I didn't base any of this on where it was before I took it off again. I put the motor at TDC, then backed it off by 45° or so to drop pistons/provide clearance to align the cams, then crank back to TDC with cams aligned.

Bonus. Here's a side by side of previous and current crank alignment that I just looked at for about an hour: https://imgur.com/a/HmuzU4e

Thank you
 
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jacksheadache said:
Alright, so I took it all back apart (fun stuff) and realigned the belt. Here's an image with the L and R cams spot on, and the notch on the crank now aligns with the dot/mark...

https://imgur.com/a/JOhxEd6

Anyone able to sanity check this before I put things back together? and assure me that as long as these 3 points align that everything as far as the timing belt is good to go?

Over thinking this now - obviously it was off already, so I didn't base any of this on where it was before I took it off again. I put the motor at TDC, then backed it off by 45° or so to drop pistons/provide clearance to align the cams, then crank back to TDC with cams aligned.

Bonus. Here's a side by side of previous and current crank alignment that I just looked at for about an hour: https://imgur.com/a/HmuzU4e

Thank you
Click to expand...

Looks good to me!
 
Update, just in case this may help anyone in the future.

So I had reinstalled the belt and then taken the pictures in the last post. Everything looks good, right? What I found is that at the next step, where the crank gets spun over twice, the belt on the crank ended up being off a tooth. I removed the timing belt tensioner and belt two more times after this to find the same result.

I figure this is exactly what happened the first time I threw it together and why it was off. If the slack (Timmy The Toolman points this out in his video) is not fully removed from the driver side, it will not be picked up by the timing belt tensioner. So the belt will seemingly skip a tooth based on that driver side slack after a rotation.

What I found is the viewing angle/ parallax error was probably to blame here. As many times as I'd double check the alignment on the crank with my eyes and trying to snap pictures, it looked spot on but I think in reality was slightly bumped back. I bumped it forwarded just a hair and the belt lined up perfectly, and the slack was removed from the driver side, and the castings on the crank seemed to still align with the dot. Another fun note, and this may be obvious, but in the moment was not to me.. The timing belt printed alignment marks that are designed to line up with the camshaft and crankshaft pulleys when all components are at Top Dead Center- only do so before the first rotation.. don't expect to spin the crank twice and have these line back up (the casting marks will, the printed sections on the belt do not)

Next step is to throw the rest of it back together as time allows, cross fingers, fire it up, and hope it doesn't grenade. ��
 
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