Issues with my 2nd Gen (1991)

[MisterNickG]

I recently ran into a few issues with my 4runner. I tried searching the web for possibly solutions but couldn't find much. I was wondering if anyone could help with diagnosing the issues I have or point me the right way for what to check/inspect to help me come to a conclusion.

My rig:
1991, 4x4, 3.0 V6, 5-Speed Manual, 235K miles

Issue #1:
The other day while I was driving home, I shifted into neutral and it wouldn't let me get into any gear. I managed to pull to the side of the road. Turned it off, and while it was off it went into all gears. Turned it back on and it wouldn't get into any gears still. Turned it off once more and waited a little and turned it back on and it started working again.

- Yes, my clutch master had fluid in it.

Issue #2:
As I'm driving, when I reach 55-65mph it makes a loud constant humming from the front end (try saying "hmmmmmmmmmm" and that's how it sounds/feels). It only does it at that speed and when you go faster than that you don't hear it, and slower than that you don't hear it.

- Driver side wheel bearing is new
- Both axles are new
- Tires are newish and balanced (General Grabbers)

Thanks in advance.

 

[Ahlem]

Cheap diagnostic tool for issue #2 would be to rotate your tires to see if that makes a difference. While you have the vehicle up, preferably both wheels off the ground at the same time, rotate them and see if something is sloppy in your backlash or if you feel anything abnormal. Grab and wiggle things to see if you have excess play. Check your fluid in the front diff to see what's going on in there.

 

[bentos1]

I had issues shifting in gear for months, turning the truck off and back on again would fix it temporarily.
One day when driving to my GF's it was shifting very poorly all the way there.
When I was leaving it would not go in to gear with the engine running. Of course it was fine with the engine off. I was able to start in first gear but it was impossible to shift in to second. Master, slave, and clutch fork worked fine.

I decided to get a tow home to remove the transmission to get a better look at things. It was pretty obvious at that point. One of the springs in the clutch has broken and come off completely. It was jamming up everything.
A new clutch kit and a good time working during December in the driveway and it was fixed.

No clue if you have any issues with the disk but these things happen.

 

[bentos1]

Nick, whats your plan with fixing these things?

You going to dive in and take a look soon? Might be worth just throwing in a clutch kit, at least it would be all brand new and most likely fix your shifting problems.

 

[smast]

Man I'm sorry to jack your thread. I can't help you with any issues and I hope you figure them out. I just had a couple of questions. I currently own an 87 runner and am looking at a '91. It sounds like the exact same as yours. First question: is your gas pedal sticky? As in hard to push? Second question: is it common for the '91's to be sluggish still. Even with the V6? If this is standard that's fine but I wanted to make sure the one I'm looking to buy for $4k is normal. Again sorry to jack the thread.

 

[Skuzz_84]

Try replacing the nylon bearing where the gear lever enters the box. Very common thing to wear out and always the first to check when experiencing shifting problems.

Sent from my SM-N915G using Tapatalk

 

[ChildrenOfBodom]

Issue #1:
The other day while I was driving home, I shifted into neutral and it wouldn't let me get into any gear. I managed to pull to the side of the road. Turned it off, and while it was off it went into all gears. Turned it back on and it wouldn't get into any gears still. Turned it off once more and waited a little and turned it back on and it started working again.

Definitely sounds like a hydraulics issue with the clutch. Your clutch master may have fluid, but the little rubber seal within the cylinder may be compromised, allowing air into the system. Similar can be said for the clutch slave cyl. You have no issue switching gears when off because the transmission is not spinning, thus there's far less happening. When it's running, there is not enough disengagement from the clutch to allow for the sychronizers to do their job (help you into gear while the transmission and engine are spinning). If you sit and pump the clutch pedal, you can probably make some pressure, which may explain why you were able to drive off again.

It's a very common occurrence, I can safely say that both of my 4Runner clutch master cylinders had to be replaced at a point due to this exact issue. So definitely check there. The shifter bushings might need replacing if they've never been changed, but for the sake of discussion, you could literally remove the bushing entirely and it wouldn't stop you from being able to change gears. It has to be something related to the pedal/hydraulics/master or slave cylinder.

 

[MisterNickG]

Definitely sounds like a hydraulics issue with the clutch. Your clutch master may have fluid, but the little rubber seal within the cylinder may be compromised, allowing air into the system. Similar can be said for the clutch slave cyl. You have no issue switching gears when off because the transmission is not spinning, thus there's far less happening. When it's running, there is not enough disengagement from the clutch to allow for the sychronizers to do their job (help you into gear while the transmission and engine are spinning). If you sit and pump the clutch pedal, you can probably make some pressure, which may explain why you were able to drive off again.

It's a very common occurrence, I can safely say that both of my 4Runner clutch master cylinders had to be replaced at a point due to this exact issue. So definitely check there. The shifter bushings might need replacing if they've never been changed, but for the sake of discussion, you could literally remove the bushing entirely and it wouldn't stop you from being able to change gears. It has to be something related to the pedal/hydraulics/master or slave cylinder.

I brought it to the shop. The shifter bushings were both bad, pretty much shot. Those are being replaced. My pilot bearing was bad, clutch was worn, and flywheel had a lot of hot spots. Truck should be finished with the repairs today

 

[MisterNickG]

Nick, whats your plan with fixing these things?

You going to dive in and take a look soon? Might be worth just throwing in a clutch kit, at least it would be all brand new and most likely fix your shifting problems.

Getting my new clutch kit, flywheel, shifter bushings, and my sway bar bushings installed today

 

[bentos1]

Getting my new clutch kit, flywheel, shifter bushings, and my sway bar bushings installed today

That sounds great! Let us know how it all turns out for you

 

[ryantzor]

I had issue with shifting as well. was fixed in no time with a new clutch kit. I think someone else mentioned it above but mine was a spring issue as well.

 

[MisterNickG]

Definitely sounds like a hydraulics issue with the clutch. Your clutch master may have fluid, but the little rubber seal within the cylinder may be compromised, allowing air into the system. Similar can be said for the clutch slave cyl. You have no issue switching gears when off because the transmission is not spinning, thus there's far less happening. When it's running, there is not enough disengagement from the clutch to allow for the sychronizers to do their job (help you into gear while the transmission and engine are spinning). If you sit and pump the clutch pedal, you can probably make some pressure, which may explain why you were able to drive off again.

It's a very common occurrence, I can safely say that both of my 4Runner clutch master cylinders had to be replaced at a point due to this exact issue. So definitely check there. The shifter bushings might need replacing if they've never been changed, but for the sake of discussion, you could literally remove the bushing entirely and it wouldn't stop you from being able to change gears. It has to be something related to the pedal/hydraulics/master or slave cylinder.

[MENTION=145463]bentos1[/MENTION]

Just got my rig back, no issues with shifting, drives very very well and gets into each gear with no effort. Only thing now is after the mechanic changed my diff fluids, he found little tiny metal debris from the rear diff.

 

[bentos1]

Nick, Congrats on getting the clutch situation all sorted out. It sure can be frustrating dealing with those issues. Sure is nice when its all new and shifting like butter!

Metal shavings in the diff doesn't necessary mean big issues. All of our diffs will have some amount of that after 20+ years, it really depends on how much it was. Shavings, not a big deal. I would be worried if it was chunks of the teeth missing. Keep in mind there are always people on CL's parting these out cheap and junk yards. You could get a diff really cheap if you did end up needing to replace it.

You have a 91, that has been around the block a few times. If you take the time to fix some of these now, you will have a solid truck for years to come.

 

[MisterNickG]

Nick, Congrats on getting the clutch situation all sorted out. It sure can be frustrating dealing with those issues. Sure is nice when its all new and shifting like butter!

Metal shavings in the diff doesn't necessary mean big issues. All of our diffs will have some amount of that after 20+ years, it really depends on how much it was. Shavings, not a big deal. I would be worried if it was chunks of the teeth missing. Keep in mind there are always people on CL's parting these out cheap and junk yards. You could get a diff really cheap if you did end up needing to replace it.

You have a 91, that has been around the block a few times. If you take the time to fix some of these now, you will have a solid truck for years to come.

It definitely wasn't chunks, looked more like a little bit of glitter in the fluid. I'm not worried so much, she runs like a champ Still have the vibration/hum at 60mph, and on a full lock turn going left there's a strange noise as it is in motion, like a rubbing like noise. Then again, I do know my pads/rotors are worn pretty bad on the front that they don't stop smooth anymore, more like a stutter stop. I have the rotors and pads but didn't take the time to change them yet -____-

 

[bentos1]

Could be something with the pads/rotors, get those changed out soon and let us know.

Little bits of glitter in the gear oil is expected for anything 20 yrs old, no worries there.

The turning sound could be the CV's, very common on these, especially 1st/2nd gens. Are your boots in good shape? Torn at all?

I had a 92 pickup and ended up buying a front IFS end for $100 with manual locking hubs. Was able to swap my rotors, put in new pads, swap out the broken CV, and convert over to manual hubs. I wish the 3rd gens were as simple as the 2nd gens.
Might be a place to look.

 

[MisterNickG]

Could be something with the pads/rotors, get those changed out soon and let us know.

Little bits of glitter in the gear oil is expected for anything 20 yrs old, no worries there.

The turning sound could be the CV's, very common on these, especially 1st/2nd gens. Are your boots in good shape? Torn at all?

I had a 92 pickup and ended up buying a front IFS end for $100 with manual locking hubs. Was able to swap my rotors, put in new pads, swap out the broken CV, and convert over to manual hubs. I wish the 3rd gens were as simple as the 2nd gens.
Might be a place to look.

I'll replace the pads/rotors this weekend. Both of my CV's are actually knew. I had installed them just a few weeks ago. :thumb3: I'll keep you updated once I do the brakes.

 

[MisterNickG]

Update: Pads were still good.

Now making some other noise like somethings hitting something lightly on driver's side front. Still making humming/vibrating noise at 60mph.

 

[MisterNickG]

Update: Just changed front rotors and pads, and installed my new end link bushings. Still have a rubbing noise on full turn left, and a knocking noise on slight right at higher speeds, and a vibration/humming at 65mph.

Things I noticed today:
Passenger side upper control arm bushings are bad, lower control arm bushings could use replacing as well. Also, I'm not sure what they're called but they're like bushings on the sides of the chassis underneath the car, those are worn as well. Also, driver's side tie rod has a lot of play. I will cater to those next week.

I also noticed a spot where something should be? Not sure if anyone can look at my photo and see what's supposed to go where the two holes on the transmission are? (See photo below)