brillo_76
Elite Member
20.57 miles per gallon isn't a 20 gallon fill up...
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Jerod's Supercharged T[u]RD Build
- Thread starter gamefreakgc
- Start date
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gamefreakgc
Elite Member
Ha, that was a fill up I accidentally mixed up with our other car. Good catch though. There's probably a way to delete it but I'm too lazy to figure it out.
Rushthezeppelin
New member
20.57 miles per gallon isn't a 20 gallon fill up...
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I'm talking about the 19.93g one at the bottom. I rounded up.
gamefreakgc
Elite Member
So I never noticed until last week that after regearing my tune is really messed up! It runs at about 12.6 to 13.0 AFR at WOT!!! I don't really know why regearing would cause it to go so far lean but it did. Working on the tune now and I've got it into the low 12's but looking for 11.8-12.1 range. Any ideas as to why it would go lean like that? Nothing else has changed except for the sealed air box I made so maybe that changed it a bit. Or perhaps it goes through the RPM's much faster now and doesn't apply fuel at the same rate as before? The data looked fine though.
gamefreakgc
Elite Member
It was in 2nd gear as that it what I tuned before. I road tuned it so 3rd gear wasn't an option as it hits the speed governor before it hits 5500 RPM, plus I don't feel very comfortable going 105 MPH in a 4Runner.
I did notice that the 3rd gear data, as fast as I was willing to go, was much closer to my intended tune than 2nd gear. I just don't drive at WOT in 3rd gear, like never ever. Now 3rd gear is a tad too rich but 2nd gear is a tad too lean. Very confusing.
Speedy
Member
I road tuned mine in 3rd :beer: Yep speed limiter is a thing up there lol.
My 2nd gear is a bit leaner than 3rd. 12.2 in 2nd is 11.8-11.9 in 3rd. I think it just has to do with RPM resolution and the speed the RPMs climb, at least for my URD 7th setup and water meth injection. YMMV. If you mainly hit enrichment in 2nd, that's where I'd focus the tuning. Your gears are probably move through the RPMs much more quickly.
My 2nd gear is a bit leaner than 3rd. 12.2 in 2nd is 11.8-11.9 in 3rd. I think it just has to do with RPM resolution and the speed the RPMs climb, at least for my URD 7th setup and water meth injection. YMMV. If you mainly hit enrichment in 2nd, that's where I'd focus the tuning. Your gears are probably move through the RPMs much more quickly.
gamefreakgc
Elite Member
You know what, it's probably the methanol. I didn't think about how that could lag behind the fueling demands as it has to travel further to hit the cylinders. I bet that's what the lag is.
So you got this "262" cam that sea2sky was selling and it was able to idle and run without specific tuning? You mentioned the intake side is 40% larger than stock so it's 7.85 + 7.85*.40 = basically 11mm of lift on the intake side and the stock valve springs accommodated that much lift? The exhaust side was the stock lift but with 262 duration?
gamefreakgc
Elite Member
Yes that's the profile that used to be sold by sea2sky, Colt Cams still makes them. The stock springs did NOT work well for that amount of lift, which is why they kept going out of adjustment as the valve springs were too soft and kept compressing down smaller. As far as fuel management goes, I have a piggyback so tuning is easy for me and at idle they performed pretty similar to stock cams and do not throw a check engine light. When idling there is very little overlap (some refer this as the lope and sound that guys chase after) and runs well. It's at high RPM that the camshafts really wake up this engine. However if you keep reading it's also what caused my engine to fail. I do believe it can be done well if you:
1. Put stiffer valve springs in, LC Engineering sells a good set that isn't too stiff
2. DO NOT USE THE SHIM SPACERS! This is ultimately what failed, although the fatigued springs were not keeping the shims in the buckets either. The spacers keep the shims from being sealed in the bucket and allows them to stay loose and find their way out. The exhaust spacers were much thinner than the intake shims so it'd be easy to do with the exhaust. It's better to just reshim the entire engine but that does add about $250-$300 to the total installation cost.
So, I had some time to run a few times down the road and get some power readings with the two filters. Here's the chart and I'll discuss the data below:
Orange line is the aFe 5R Power oiled filter, blue is my stock paper filter. Pretty conclusive by the chart this thing flows better for my engine. Now, before you ditch your paper filter on your N/A 4Runner know that my engine is heavily modified and has a higher cfm flow than stock.
That being said, I'm very pleased with how it performs. Peak gain might only be +3 HP and +4 lbs tq but max gain is +9 HP and +9 lbs tq at 4500 RPM! Now this is just preliminary data based off my AEC FIC 6 logs (using Virtual Dyno) but it's shown to be pretty darn accurate. I'm going to give this filter a straight +6 HP, the power is there. Confirms also that my intake it still too restrictive.
A few other things I learned today is that heat soak happens on the third run. You'll notice the top end REALLY drops off once you go back 5000 RPM's. That's what happened on the dyno last year too, heat is a real limiting factor on this engine. I might do another run soon when the engine is cooler for some better comparisons. I took at total of 6 runs, that was too many without allowing it to cool down.
Also, I learned that the AEM FIC reads the AFR +0.3 higher. I will need to re-tune my engine soon to correct that.
HP Gain:
+6 HP
Running Total:
+109 HP
So at this point you are 256whp/281wtq. Did you have the colt cams 262 in it? ( I imagine so because power is being made past 4500 rpm ).
You ended up with 326WHP 347TQ, what was responsible for this gain?
And the colt cams estimate of 22HP that was likely on a N/A 5vzfe setup, or was it boosted indeed? 262 cam is a pretty big step up from a small 228 cam. In other platforms with displacements around 3.0-3.5l with heads of similar design to the 5vz fe that would be around 35hp gain.
gamefreakgc
Elite Member
At that point I still had the stock cams in. The cams only lasted about 3 months in the engine before it blew up from spitting shims out so do take that into consideration. I'm not the only one that happened to for the 5VZ-FE as I've met others that the same thing happened to them when using the shim spacers.
I'm not sure if the 22HP was from a N/A engine or forced induction. The owner at Colt Cams didn't elaborate much on that and the dynos that were posted on the internet showing the gains disappeared years ago. I ended up selling my camshaft regrinds to another person building their engine (with full disclosure with what happened to me) so they are not in my possession anymore. For the short time I had them they did make power but never had a chance to measure it as they started giving me trouble with the valve clearances after only about 4 weeks.
The vast majority of power made has just been improving my tune and the airflow in and out of the engine. Upon recommendation from my local performance exhaust shop I went with a 3" intake and 3" exhaust and made an immense amount of power from that. If you add up all the power I've made from a fully stock intake/exhaust to what I have now (accounting for the tunes to fully utilize it) it's over 80HP added. You really cannot go too big on this engine with a 2.1" supercharger pulley and a free flowing exhaust and intake. It is really remarkable how much air this engine needs compared how Toyota designed it.
After 3 solid days of wrenching, the Colt Cams 262* grind and the LCE Lightweight Crankshaft Pulley are in! I was pressed for time so no photos... but not like it would have helped much. If you are reading this to figure out how to put them in, refer to the FSM for detailed instructions. You'll have to take off the upper intake/plenum, timing belt, radiator, and the crankshaft pulley just to swap out cams. It's a very involved job with a lot of checking, double-check, and triple checking as well as a dreaded valve adjustment.
The power is really there at 4000+ RPM's from the cams, and the lightweight pulley helps a lot with passing and quick accelerations around town. It accelerates quicker, and hauls all the way to redline very easy! I noticed a lot more power at 4500+ RPM. The supercharger helps a bit to alleviate the power drop off up there but never seemed to enjoy redlining much. now it pulls even in the 5000's with plenty of power and torque like never before! That's the whole point of performance camshafts anyway, they add power at higher RPM's.
LCE Lightweight Crankshaft Pulley - This claims 2.7 acceleration horsepower per pound removed, and is 7.5 lbs lighter. So that's 20.25 hp gain of "acceleration HP" which is a made up term, by the way. In the real world, you notice this when stomping on the gas to pass on the highway, or going from a dead stop. Less rotating mass = more power to the wheels. It adds nothing as far as engine performance but rather frees up the engine to rotate the wheels, not the pulley. However it will still show up as a performance gain on a intertia-based dyno because of science and physics stuff. Since I had to take the crankshaft pulley off anyway for the timing belt, it was a no-brainer. Easy bolt-on performance.
Colt Cams 262 degree 5VZ-FE Camshafts - These are dyno tested to gain 22 HP, and I can guess where! My engine pulls much harder at 4500-5500 RPM's and loves to redline. I need to get this on a dyno soon to see if there's extra power to bump up the redline to 6,000 RPM's but not sure. There's not really much as far as gains in the 2k to 4k range, so if you are looking for some extra torque down low these are not what you want. These cams gain power by slightly changing the intake and exhaust timing, I'm talking maybe a couple of degrees difference. Side by side the stock cams are almost identical until you look hard. It idles a little rougher than stock but combined with extra lift on the intake side over stock, provides some nice power in the upper RPM's.
This was a VERY involved job. As a few people on here also have bought them so hopefully I can provide a few tips to help in the process.
First off, you will need a digital caliper to measure the valve shim thicknesses. This is not optional. Second, a valve adjustment job is a must and you will need to custom order shims from Toyota since the exhaust valves WILL be out of spec. The shim spacers provided from Colt Cams are not quite thick enough to provide the right valve clearances (printed on the sticker under your hood). I needed to buy 9 of the 12 exhaust shims, 3 of them I was able to swap around to bring them into spec. Only 3 intake valves were out of spec initially and swapping shims around fixed all 3. Shims cost $15 each, so I was out $135 just for those.
When you fit the shim spacers supplied by Colt Cams in and you go to check the clearances, rotate the cams one complete revolution before measuring the gaps. I noticed that the oil in between the spacers and buckets would actually cause the reading to be off until it was pressed by the camshaft lobe at least once. Almost pulled my hair out thinking I had ordered the wrong size shims. Also, you will not get the clearances perfect. Since Toyota only makes them in 0.05mm increments (i.e. 3.00mm, 3.05, 3.10, etc.) it's hard to always get the perfect size. When it doubt, for exhaust valves go a little too big instead of too small. Exhaust valves will widen over time so having the gaps a little smaller initially will get you more life out of your exhaust valves.
Give yourself plenty of time to do this job. I had to remove the stock cams, remove all shims, install all shim spacers, measure all shim thicknesses, put in the new cams, check clearances and write it all down, then remove all cams, then order new shims, then install new shims, install camshafts, measure all clearances, remove exhaust camshafts, swap a few shims around, install camshafts again. That process took me about 8 hours. This is NOT an easy job nor something to be done by first time DIY mechanics.
I realize that this is the only real review of 5VZ-FE camshafts on the internet. These are the same camshafts that were offered by Sea2Sky tuning, Geoff at Colt Cams made this grind for that shop. The shop closed but Geoff still has the grind and told me he's been selling quite a few lately. Please feel free to PM me for any questions on installation or anything else related to these camshafts.
And yes, I am getting this thing ready for another dyno run!
Do u have any videos of how it sounds, I mainly js wanted to get cams to have loud idle chop
gamefreakgc
Elite Member
If you read a bit more, the shim spacers that came with these popped a shim out and destroyed my engine. Before it was destroyed, it did not sound any different as it did not have very much valve overlap. I am not aware of any cams for a Toyota that has that, which causes the loping sound at idle. Mostly because those cams are made to make power at very high RPM while lowering power at lower RPM and we can only rev to 5500 RPM, so wouldn't really be worth it.
After 3 solid days of wrenching, the Colt Cams 262* grind and the LCE Lightweight Crankshaft Pulley are in! I was pressed for time so no photos... but not like it would have helped much. If you are reading this to figure out how to put them in, refer to the FSM for detailed instructions. You'll have to take off the upper intake/plenum, timing belt, radiator, and the crankshaft pulley just to swap out cams. It's a very involved job with a lot of checking, double-check, and triple checking as well as a dreaded valve adjustment.
The power is really there at 4000+ RPM's from the cams, and the lightweight pulley helps a lot with passing and quick accelerations around town. It accelerates quicker, and hauls all the way to redline very easy! I noticed a lot more power at 4500+ RPM. The supercharger helps a bit to alleviate the power drop off up there but never seemed to enjoy redlining much. now it pulls even in the 5000's with plenty of power and torque like never before! That's the whole point of performance camshafts anyway, they add power at higher RPM's.
LCE Lightweight Crankshaft Pulley - This claims 2.7 acceleration horsepower per pound removed, and is 7.5 lbs lighter. So that's 20.25 hp gain of "acceleration HP" which is a made up term, by the way. In the real world, you notice this when stomping on the gas to pass on the highway, or going from a dead stop. Less rotating mass = more power to the wheels. It adds nothing as far as engine performance but rather frees up the engine to rotate the wheels, not the pulley. However it will still show up as a performance gain on a intertia-based dyno because of science and physics stuff. Since I had to take the crankshaft pulley off anyway for the timing belt, it was a no-brainer. Easy bolt-on performance.
Colt Cams 262 degree 5VZ-FE Camshafts - These are dyno tested to gain 22 HP, and I can guess where! My engine pulls much harder at 4500-5500 RPM's and loves to redline. I need to get this on a dyno soon to see if there's extra power to bump up the redline to 6,000 RPM's but not sure. There's not really much as far as gains in the 2k to 4k range, so if you are looking for some extra torque down low these are not what you want. These cams gain power by slightly changing the intake and exhaust timing, I'm talking maybe a couple of degrees difference. Side by side the stock cams are almost identical until you look hard. It idles a little rougher than stock but combined with extra lift on the intake side over stock, provides some nice power in the upper RPM's.
This was a VERY involved job. As a few people on here also have bought them so hopefully I can provide a few tips to help in the process.
First off, you will need a digital caliper to measure the valve shim thicknesses. This is not optional. Second, a valve adjustment job is a must and you will need to custom order shims from Toyota since the exhaust valves WILL be out of spec. The shim spacers provided from Colt Cams are not quite thick enough to provide the right valve clearances (printed on the sticker under your hood). I needed to buy 9 of the 12 exhaust shims, 3 of them I was able to swap around to bring them into spec. Only 3 intake valves were out of spec initially and swapping shims around fixed all 3. Shims cost $15 each, so I was out $135 just for those.
When you fit the shim spacers supplied by Colt Cams in and you go to check the clearances, rotate the cams one complete revolution before measuring the gaps. I noticed that the oil in between the spacers and buckets would actually cause the reading to be off until it was pressed by the camshaft lobe at least once. Almost pulled my hair out thinking I had ordered the wrong size shims. Also, you will not get the clearances perfect. Since Toyota only makes them in 0.05mm increments (i.e. 3.00mm, 3.05, 3.10, etc.) it's hard to always get the perfect size. When it doubt, for exhaust valves go a little too big instead of too small. Exhaust valves will widen over time so having the gaps a little smaller initially will get you more life out of your exhaust valves.
Give yourself plenty of time to do this job. I had to remove the stock cams, remove all shims, install all shim spacers, measure all shim thicknesses, put in the new cams, check clearances and write it all down, then remove all cams, then order new shims, then install new shims, install camshafts, measure all clearances, remove exhaust camshafts, swap a few shims around, install camshafts again. That process took me about 8 hours. This is NOT an easy job nor something to be done by first time DIY mechanics.
I realize that this is the only real review of 5VZ-FE camshafts on the internet. These are the same camshafts that were offered by Sea2Sky tuning, Geoff at Colt Cams made this grind for that shop. The shop closed but Geoff still has the grind and told me he's been selling quite a few lately. Please feel free to PM me for any questions on installation or anything else related to these camshafts.
And yes, I am getting this thing ready for another dyno run!
Do u have any videos of how it sounds and can I run this one with an n/a 5vzfe, I mainly js wanna get these cams for the sound and the top end power, I noticed my 5vz doesn’t like higher rpm’s
gamefreakgc
Elite Member
After 27 years of grime, grease, an engine swap and bug splatter, my engine bay is clean again. 5 hours to do it though... probably never again ha! But it turned out nice. I used the 'Chris Fix' detailing method, worked well.
gh25_
Member
After 27 years of grime, grease, an engine swap and bug splatter, my engine bay is clean again. 5 hours to do it though... probably never again ha! But it turned out nice. I used the 'Chris Fix' detailing method, worked well.
Dang! It looks brand new again. I love a good clean engine bay. I try to keep mine as clean as I can. For how much you have going on with your truck you have a very tidy engine bay. nice!
