KDSS vs Non-KDSS?

[TrailHeadWorthy]

I am also deciding between a SR5 Premium and Offroad Premium KDSS.


My selling point is which will handle better on road as both of these are more than capable for my offroad uses. Less nose dive and better handling on mountain roads.

How does an SR5 with Bilsteins and upgraded tires compare to one with KDSS?

 

[mtnbiker49]

nice

Trying to up your post count?

 

[Jetboy]

I am also deciding between a SR5 Premium and Offroad Premium KDSS.


My selling point is which will handle better on road as both of these are more than capable for my offroad uses. Less nose dive and better handling on mountain roads.

How does an SR5 with Bilsteins and upgraded tires compare to one with KDSS?

KDSS will not help with nose dive. Only cornering/body roll. Shocks can help some with nose dive some. So will stiffer front and rear springs (rear springs matter too). The easiest thing to do is drive it like a 4x4 with soft suspension.

 

[mrblah]

I am also deciding between a SR5 Premium and Offroad Premium KDSS.


My selling point is which will handle better on road as both of these are more than capable for my offroad uses. Less nose dive and better handling on mountain roads.

How does an SR5 with Bilsteins and upgraded tires compare to one with KDSS?

kdss feels way more firmer on road which translates to better onroad handling (less body roll through corners). It is a night or day difference, test drive both.

 

[MatraBlue]

kdss feels way more firmer on road which translates to better onroad handling (less body roll through corners). It is a night or day difference, test drive both.

If this were the case why wouldn’t Toyota offer kdss on the SR5 as an option? Makes no sense to me that it is only offered on the model that is more Off Road oriented.

 

[Cndnmax]

If this were the case why wouldn’t Toyota offer kdss on the SR5 as an option? Makes no sense to me that it is only offered on the model that is more Off Road oriented.

It’s 100% the case, you get practically no body roll with kdss but will also ride a little rougher on bumps. The difference in off road capabilities is that the kdss system will release at slow speeds and allow more articulation than a regular sway bar. It’s not so good at fast speed off-road which is why people speculate it’s not on the PRO.

Lots of “premium” features are only available on certain trims, no surprise there.

 

[MatraBlue]

It’s 100% the case, you get practically no body roll with kdss but will also ride a little rougher on bumps. The difference in off road capabilities is that the kdss system will release at slow speeds and allow more articulation than a regular sway bar. It’s not so good at fast speed off-road which is why people speculate it’s not on the PRO.

Lots of “premium” features are only available on certain trims, no surprise there.

Exactly, if Toyota primarily equipped a 4RUNNER with kdss to reduce on road body roll (ie to reduce understeeer) it would be available on the SR5 since millions, maybe billions, more miles are put on SR5’s than Off Roads. Sway bars are safely devices, plain and simple. The primary reason for kdss is to allow more off road articulation.

 

[mrblah]

Exactly, if Toyota primarily equipped a 4RUNNER with kdss to reduce on road body roll (ie to reduce understeeer) it would be available on the SR5 since millions, maybe billions, more miles are put on SR5’s than Off Roads. Sway bars are safely devices, plain and simple. The primary reason for kdss is to allow more off road articulation.

....with larger front and rear swaybars that would otherwise limit offroad articulation in a offroad setting. (how your statement should have ended).

Toyota markets KDSS as a premium offroad option. It allows an offroad vehicle to have better road manners (larger swaybars front and rear) without sacrificing offroad abilities (passive articulation of the sway bars).

Realistically speaking, toyota could have marketed KDSS as a option that improves on road handling, but I guess they choose not to b/c the trail was marketed as their premium offroad trim (until the pro came along). They couldn't market it as their premium on-road trim (b/c XREAS is).

Real world experience (IMHO), there is a huge difference in on-road handling between kdss and non-kdss vehicles, and not so much difference off-road handling (showing how good the passive system works offroad).

I personally dont like KDSS in a offroad setting....its jarring in anything other than a crawl. You have to compensate by lowering the air in your tires more. Others complain that KDSS components sit lower and are more prone to damage (that I'm not so sure). So in a offroad setting, I rather have a non-kdss equipped vehicle (such as what toyota was thinking when they made the pro).

My 4runner is equipped with KDSS, and its one of the main reasons I bought a 4runner.

Not saying you are wrong or right, just adding to the discussion.

 

[Tcha1]

My 2 Cents:

I think people on forums / facebook groups / etc. for whatever vehicle act like they will use their vehicles to the extreme.

4Runner Forums/Groups:
Typically the average user will use their vehicle (including myself) for specific off-road trails maybe 3-4 times a year or maybe less. That's +/- 1% of the time of the vehicle's use in a year. So 99% of the time for the average user vehicle will be used for on road driving so why not get the KDSS which makes driving on road better? No brainer for me. Even IF you do 50% off road driving that's still 50% on-road.. Why not less body roll?

For people claiming this will be a maintenance issue? Suspension is like tires after all it will become a maintenance item that will need repaired or replaced in the long run.

For people claiming Non KDSS 4Runners will last longer. Clearly an opinion. We don't know that yet.

For people claiming KDSS will give them higher resale values.. If you bought your vehicle for resale value.. Or any car for that matter..:hand:

For people claiming TRD Pro was made without KDSS for a reason. May be true? This is my opinion here but I think the TRD Pro (for the 4Runner) was Toyota marketing 100% its literally the 4x4 base model with taller suspension and tires/wheels + aesthetics. It was a model to really sell TRD parts to the average 4Runner buyer. I mean the TRD grille on Tacoma / 4Runner / Tundra.. They probably made millions.. Genius on Toyota's part.

For people claiming the KDSS will be more prone to damage as it gives less clearance. I haven't seen or heard anyone have issues as of yet. If you bought this car mainly for offroading and not much anything else I can see how this may be an issue but if you did buy it for offroading only I'm sure that niche group will dwell deep within aftermarket mods including re-gearing for bigger tires/wheels setup that will make that small difference a non-issue.

Wow.. I typed a too much. I drive a KDSS ORP so that's how I determined my purchase. To each his own though.

 

[Cactus Jack]

But what if you do do a lot of off roading/rock crawling? Is the KDSS still worth it? Does the KDSS limit flex/suspension travel at all?

From my research it seems to be similar to a sway bar disconnect in other vehicles (during off road situations). If this is true, I would think KDSS would be better for technical/difficult trails.

I'm not concerned about on road performance/body roll. I want my 4runner to drive like a truck, not a corvette; wouldn't mind the softer ride.

Thoughts?

 

[Joshi]

But what if you do do a lot of off roading/rock crawling? Is the KDSS still worth it? Does the KDSS limit flex/suspension travel at all?

From my research it seems to be similar to a sway bar disconnect in other vehicles (during off road situations). If this is true, I would think KDSS would be better for technical/difficult trails.

I'm not concerned about on road performance/body roll. I want my 4runner to drive like a truck, not a corvette; wouldn't mind the softer ride.

Thoughts?

On road handling of a T4R with KDSS will never be confused with a corvette . If you are at all aggressive in cornering on the street though, KDSS makes a world of difference for the better. If you want a soft ride and don't mind or like body roll, then don't get the KDSS - it'll be wasted money.

As far as off road and in stock condition: In crawl-type situations KDSS offers a small articulation advantage over non-KDSS but I haven't read of anyone claiming it's the bees knees. In higher speed situations (> 12mph) KDSS can make for an uncomfortable ride.

If adding long-travel (>3") suspension is in your future, then stay away from KDSS.

 

[Cactus Jack]

On road handling of a T4R with KDSS will never be confused with a corvette . If you are at all aggressive in cornering on the street though, KDSS makes a world of difference for the better. If you want a soft ride and don't mind or like body roll, then don't get the KDSS - it'll be wasted money.

As far as off road and in stock condition: In crawl-type situations KDSS offers a small articulation advantage over non-KDSS but I haven't read of anyone claiming it's the bees knees. In higher speed situations (> 12mph) KDSS can make for an uncomfortable ride.

If adding long-travel (>3") suspension is in your future, then stay away from KDSS.

Awesome! Thank you so much for the information, that helps a lot! No KDSS it is then.

So that begs the question, what options are available to disconnect the front sway bar? Aftermarket sway bar disconnects? Or does everyone just leave it attached?

 

[borfoo3]

Awesome! Thank you so much for the information, that helps a lot! No KDSS it is then.

So that begs the question, what options are available to disconnect the front sway bar? Aftermarket sway bar disconnects? Or does everyone just leave it attached?

Leave it attached. No aftermarket solutions for KDSS disconnect AFAIK.

You'll need to remove both front and rear sway bars to get KDSS out of the way if you absolutely want to.

 

[mtnbiker49]

I haven’t seen any articulation numbers for with and without. To me, I don’t think it increases articulation. There will be people that say it does from their experience, but that’s just speculation and not facts.

What I believe it does do is stiffen on road handling by limiting travel so that there is less sway. Once you get onto some trails, it loosens up and you think you have more travel than a non-KDSS, but in reality, it is just compared to the firmer highway ride of the KDSS. In my opinion, it is more of a sway control than anything to do with offroad capability.

 

[Thai]

I haven’t seen any articulation numbers for with and without. To me, I don’t think it increases articulation. There will be people that say it does from their experience, but that’s just speculation and not facts.

What I believe it does do is stiffen on road handling by limiting travel so that there is less sway. Once you get onto some trails, it loosens up and you think you have more travel than a non-KDSS, but in reality, it is just compared to the firmer highway ride of the KDSS. In my opinion, it is more of a sway control than anything to do with offroad capability.

Ignorance is bliss....

And just FYI, you’re 100% wrong.

 

[Thai]

Classic and informative thread...and plenty of non-believers: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/141361-kdss-te-vs-non-kdss-sr5.html

(And just in case you get confused reading the thread on who is right and who is wrong...a guy named THAI was/is right throughout the thread.)

 

[e60ral]

I haven’t seen any articulation numbers for with and without. To me, I don’t think it increases articulation. There will be people that say it does from their experience, but that’s just speculation and not facts.

What I believe it does do is stiffen on road handling by limiting travel so that there is less sway. Once you get onto some trails, it loosens up and you think you have more travel than a non-KDSS, but in reality, it is just compared to the firmer highway ride of the KDSS. In my opinion, it is more of a sway control than anything to do with offroad capability.

I've posted numbers, it increases articulation. The reasoning should make sense

Sent from my P00A using Tapatalk

 

[Thai]

https://www.whichcar.com.au/reviews/road-tests/toyota-prado-kdss-test

“On the Prado’s rear axle, KDSS increases wheel travel from 465mm to 565mm (more than 20 per cent).“

I sure hope that this will DEFINITIVELY end silly (bordering on moronic) arguments against KDSS multiple benefits on-road AND off-road.

 

[Thai]

I am also deciding between a SR5 Premium and Offroad Premium KDSS.


My selling point is which will handle better on road as both of these are more than capable for my offroad uses. Less nose dive and better handling on mountain roads.

How does an SR5 with Bilsteins and upgraded tires compare to one with KDSS?

I will add to what others have said...IF you want to decrease NOSE DIVE alone, then KDSS is NOT what you want. For that, you want to get the Limited model with the XREAS...i believe with the X-linked shocks, this will help with nose dive.

But, XREAS is a pure on-road only system, unlike KDSS.

 

[Thai]

If this were the case why wouldn’t Toyota offer kdss on the SR5 as an option? Makes no sense to me that it is only offered on the model that is more Off Road oriented.

Uhhh because KDSS system is not cheap. SR5 is a base model...as such it is for the cost-conscious buyers.