Knock/tap after valve cover gasket change (with video)

[hour]

Man oh man. Okay, so I finished everything up, reconnected everything, torqued everything properly... But I must have screwed something up, or never noticed this before (hard to believe). Only coming from passenger side, speed increases/decreases with throttle, no CELs, seems to idle smooth inside.

The only (ONLY) thing I can think of, is I foolishly took off the highlighted cam guide/cover/rainbow thing and replaced it... but I put it on upside down. The holes still lined up either way I flipped it, but I know I didn't put it back on the way that's pictured, because I thought it was silly for the letters to be upside down. This picture is the one I took the second I got the valve cover OFF... I should have just reviewed this pic before reassembling.

Could this piece being on upside down be the culprit, or does anyone have other ideas? Nothing fell in there at any point and everything is tight, including that stupid piece that's now upside down. Thanks much

Post-Valve cover replacement knock, Toyota 5VZ-FE - YouTube

 

[JRZEE2000TR4LTD]

Hope none of that plastic that fell in there ended up some place it shouldn't have. Did you torque that cap?

Edit: Wait, the plastic was on the driver's side sorry about that.

 

[hour]

Yeah, other side had the plastic bits. I got some more out this morning and considered it a null issue. I did torque that cap but couldn't find any torque specs because I couldn't figure out what the hell they were called. I do know that it took some force to get off, so I tightened them down to where I thought they were before. I know that isn't a very good method, but I know they were tight enough to not instantly loosen up and start causing problems.

I lost the freaking bracket to hold the accelerator cables :cry2: so I can't drive it anyway, plenty of time to take everything apart and check passenger side vc again. Sucks - thank god I have another vehicle. And no thanks to daylight savings, gonna have to do this during the week in the mornings before work... when it's 30* out.

 

[SilverRidgeRunner1]

That Valve train looks pretty dry maybe once the oil pressure builds up that sound may taper off.

 

[hour]

Eh? It had been sitting for a few days prior to me pulling that valve cover. And then it sat (foil over head) for a solid week until I buttoned up the passenger side yesterday. So yeah I'd assume everything would have drained to the pan, but shouldn't it be no different than leaving your car for a few hours anyway?

For anyone that watched the video - is this an overly abnormal sound? Again, I can't remember what it sounded like before, and maybe it always sounded like this to some degree- I just never paid enough attention or the acoustics were somehow affected by me having the hood off completely instead of propped open (yeah, unlikely hah)

 

[ki1022]

Per the FSM those camshaft bearing caps are supposed to be all tightened gradually in sequence to only 12ft/lbs. I could see it causing some problems if it was overtorqued.

Also, I'm not 100% sure it would matter very much if its facing the wrong way, but if it was me I would definitely want it facing the way it's always been, just for piece of mind.

 

[LittleCaesar]

Sounds like a valve. If you are ever up for learning how to adjust the valves on a 5vz, the time is now.

Here are the tools. Some poster did a great write up on how to use them:
Amazon.com: Valve Adjusting Tools Toyota/Lexus: Automotive

Why did you take off the bearing cap in the first place?

 

[hour]

Sigh. I couldn't figure out where the hell the half moons went, wasn't pictured in any write up. I didn't know that they were on the outer edge, at all, so I figured I had four new ones per a writeup, there must be two per head, and my next logical step was to determine where they may be and how to get to them.

So yeah, I quickly realized and replaced it, upside down. I agree it does sound like valves and matches youtube videos I've watched over the years to some extent, but why now? I just did something positive for the old girl, how cruel for anything else to coincidentally become problematic and make me question the work I did, without giving me any moment to sigh in relief that it was all over, and done correctly :blabla:

So, would you say there's no specification as to how this cap is installed, since it bolts up either way? If yes - I will eliminate that from potential culprit and focus on valve adjustment research. But in all seriousness regarding the above - can you think of any reason why valves would have just become an issue? Sitting with valve cover off (foil covered for debris), truck not started in about 10 days, sudden valve tap?

 

[awpsome]

Just saw the video...

first off, GOD DAMN HD BROTHER. HAHA I just watched it in 4k for the hell of it. I don't know of many who have this capability on a laptop yet, but my close to 4k resolution is awesome. haha

in relation to your issue, shit I don't think that sounds normal.. I just turned over my truck and cant find a sound close to it at all.. It'll be on the back of my mind throughout tonight, if I think of anything ill be sure to post back.

good luck!



p.s. what gear were you using to shoot it?

 

[hour]

Just saw the video...
first off, GOD DAMN HD BROTHER. HAHA I just watched it in 4k for the hell of it. I don't know of many who have this capability on a laptop yet, but my close to 4k resolution is awesome. haha
p.s. what gear were you using to shoot it?

I didn't even realize the quality, I just watched it once and said "That'll do pig" and uploaded to YouPube. It was at 360p by default. Anyway, upped it to 4k and it seemed more crisp, but I'm on a two year old laptop. It's an LG G3 phone and it takes phenomenal pictures and the video has always left me impressed, even if I was just reviewing it on the phone itself, or my laptop, or work computers. What isn't cool is that no one I SMS video to can ever tell - I was spoiled on iPhones and iMessage so now my iPhone friends get a compressed 10 second video that has maybe 10 pixels

Thanks for checking yours out and giving me the feedback. I guess all I can do is hypothesize that either me releasing that cam cover-plate-thing for the first time in presumably 250,000 miles tweaked it in some way to the point that it's causing one or more valves to be noisy, or that reinstalling the plate backwards (if it even matters) or just in general, is putting more pressure in a certain place and now resulting in noise.

I'm going to wait for a little more input before I order anything, but found a good 5vz guide for the job. Was excited to see Amazon's best rated digital caliper with zillions of 5 star reviews to be <$20. Was unexcited to see valve shim sets costing around $60 :lmao:

 

[awpsome]

just looked up your phone as I was impressed they have phones now that are shooting 4k and I haven't heard about it.

guess the new lg g3 you got is the 2014 flagship model and its capable of recording a short clip in 4k resolution. quite impressive if you ask me from a phone. must fill up your storage pretty quick though.

either way back to topic, good luck with your valve job and yea valve tools aint cheap.

 

[hour]

must fill up your storage pretty quick though.

32gb internal, added a 64gb class 10 card for like $30... I'm assuming I could shoot for a while. And yea that video, 44 seconds, was 159 mb :scared:

Per the FSM those camshaft bearing caps are supposed to be all tightened gradually in sequence to only 12ft/lbs. I could see it causing some problems if it was overtorqued.

Also, I'm not 100% sure it would matter very much if its facing the wrong way, but if it was me I would definitely want it facing the way it's always been, just for piece of mind.

Fook, dunno how I didn't see this earlier. Yeah, they definitely received more than 12ftlbs. It seriously took a lot of force to remove them, and the bolts holding the cap where the camshaft plug was.. maybe due to having not been touched ever. I'll try to take it off one morning this week and simply reinstall the part in original orientation and then back off all of the four bolts I touched during the process and torque back to 12ftlbs.

Part of me wants to just do valve adjustment and get that out of the way but I think I could do the above in about 30 minutes at this point. Thanks for your input, you too Little Caesar

 

[KidVermicious]

But in all seriousness regarding the above - can you think of any reason why valves would have just become an issue?

You don't want to hear this, but... because you took the bearing cap off? Those caps are supposed to be removed and installed in a specific sequence and to very specific torque levels. There's a chance, I don't know how big a chance, that the way you took off and replaced that cap messed with your cam just enough to cause some valve noise.

Having said that, I think you always had that valve noise and you're just noticing it now because you're new to wrenching on the motor and just finished a job that had you very nervous and now you're paranoid and jumping at shadows. But IF it is indeed new valve noise, that's one possible cause. Sorry to feed your paranoia.

On edit, now that I've seen your last post, if you're going to take that bearing cap off again, take them all off (on that cam) per the FSM sequence, and put them all back per the FSM sequence.

 

[hour]

You don't want to hear this, but... because you took the bearing cap off? Those caps are supposed to be removed and installed in a specific sequence and to very specific torque levels. There's a chance, I don't know how big a chance, that the way you took off and replaced that cap messed with your cam just enough to cause some valve noise.

Having said that, I think you always had that valve noise and you're just noticing it now because you're new to wrenching on the motor and just finished a job that had you very nervous and now you're paranoid and jumping at shadows. But IF it is indeed new valve noise, that's one possible cause. Sorry to feed your paranoia.

On edit, now that I've seen your last post, if you're going to take that bearing cap off again, take them all off (on that cam) per the FSM sequence, and put them all back per the FSM sequence.

Yeah, it could have always been there but I honestly think I would have noticed if it were this loud before. I'll definitely do that (removing all, reinstalling all). To be clear though, this does not apply to the cover I removed to access/replace the camshaft plug correct (directly above the one I highlighted)? I mean, the part looks similar enough... but I didn't read anything in the DIY guide about removing all. I'd obviously prefer just do this to the one cam

 

[KidVermicious]

Not sure I understand the question, but if you didn't touch any bearing caps on the other cam the first time around then there's no need to touch them now.

 

[Troybylt]

Your really not going to want to hear this, and I'm not saying this is what happened only a possibility.

My mentor of sorts (a ASE and Toyota certified Tech, worked for Toyota dealers exclusively for 35yrs) smacked the wrench out of my hand for touching the cam caps when I was doing a head gasket on an old MR2. He said by loosening one cap (especially and end cap) you can bend the cams ever so microscopicly but it adds enough wobble to "slap" the valve lifter when the lobe comes around. You might have a bent cam.

Anther thought is that you over tightened that cap which could definitely cause the tick. I watched a guy tune his 94 ford ranger WHILE IT WAS RUNNING, (crazy some ***** but it was his truck) by tightening the cam caps until the valves started to tick and then backing off one point/flat.

Lastly the cam has worn into the cap in a certain rotational direction by installing it backwards the cam is rubbing the cap the wrong way, (like petting a microscopic cat from tail to snout) it could even be trying to walk forward or backwords and your hearing a snapping as it pops back into place, kindof like when you cut your rear drums too fast and it leaves a slight spiral vs a smooth surface.

In any matter, I personally would pull that valve cover off again, back all the cam caps off in the FSM stated order, and makeing sure all are in the correct direction torque them to the (as another member stated) specified 12ft lbs in the order the FSM states.

Be forewarned, our cams are contra rotating and will have a biparted cam gear that drives the opposite cam that is spring loaded There are little indents in the gear to show where the spring loaded bit aligns, pay close attention and keep the spring gear compressed so it doesn't unload when you take all the caps off or you WILL have a very bad tick.

Best of luck and I pray for your sake the cam didn't bend!

 

[KidVermicious]

Be forewarned, our cams are contra rotating and will have a biparted cam gear that drives the opposite cam that is spring loaded There are little indents in the gear to show where the spring loaded bit aligns, pay close attention and keep the spring gear compressed so it doesn't unload when you take all the caps off or you WILL have a very bad tick.

Good call. There's a set of holes in the cam where the two pieces line up, it's exactly the same thread as a valve cover bolt, so stick that in there to hold them together.

 

[gamefreakgc]

If you over-torqued the caps you might have pressed the cam lobes closer to the shims, causing the tapping because there isn't enough clearance between cam lobe and shim.

No one mentioned this either... but what did you torque the valve covers to? It's supposed to be roughly 50 in/lbs torque, or roughly 4-5 ft/lbs torque. Basically just a bit tighter than hand tightening. If you torqued those too much then it could be the valve covers on too tight/close.

 

[02SE]

Your really not going to want to hear this, and I'm not saying this is what happened only a possibility.

My mentor of sorts (a ASE and Toyota certified Tech, worked for Toyota dealers exclusively for 35yrs) smacked the wrench out of my hand for touching the cam caps when I was doing a head gasket on an old MR2. He said by loosening one cap (especially and end cap) you can bend the cams ever so microscopicly but it adds enough wobble to "slap" the valve lifter when the lobe comes around. You might have a bent cam.

Anther thought is that you over tightened that cap which could definitely cause the tick. I watched a guy tune his 94 ford ranger WHILE IT WAS RUNNING, (crazy some ***** but it was his truck) by tightening the cam caps until the valves started to tick and then backing off one point/flat.

Lastly the cam has worn into the cap in a certain rotational direction by installing it backwards the cam is rubbing the cap the wrong way, (like petting a microscopic cat from tail to snout) it could even be trying to walk forward or backwords and your hearing a snapping as it pops back into place, kindof like when you cut your rear drums too fast and it leaves a slight spiral vs a smooth surface.

In any matter, I personally would pull that valve cover off again, back all the cam caps off in the FSM stated order, and makeing sure all are in the correct direction torque them to the (as another member stated) specified 12ft lbs in the order the FSM states.

Be forewarned, our cams are contra rotating and will have a biparted cam gear that drives the opposite cam that is spring loaded There are little indents in the gear to show where the spring loaded bit aligns, pay close attention and keep the spring gear compressed so it doesn't unload when you take all the caps off or you WILL have a very bad tick.

Best of luck and I pray for your sake the cam didn't bend!

I'm a Former ASE Master Tech, and this is pretty much what I would've said, too.

 

[hour]

Troybylt, thanks a ton for your wisdom. I'll definitely take it off again and do what you've suggested, yes - fingers crossed nothing is bent. Also (and Kid, too) - on a valve adjustment guide I found for the 5vzfe, the guy used a valve cover bolt to bind the two gears together. Said it was the perfect threading and fit, and you can't leave it in there since you'll realize a vc bolt is missing when you're reassembling. (Edit: dude, I'm an idiot. Don't recall seeing that in your post, Kid)

I do find it odd that the bolts of the cap were a beast to remove, but if they're only supposed to be 12 ft lbs I have to assume heat and age made them pretty settled.

Gamefreakgc, depsite the torque blunder on the cap, everything else was torqued with a click style wrench. I actually went out and grabbed a torque wrench that reads in inch pounds yesterday morning so I could finish the job without cracking my new valve covers Used my bigger ftlbs wrench for everything else. I adjusted it to 53 inch pounds for the vc bolts.

Last, thanks 02SE (and EatenKyle for liking his post) which makes three people who undoubtedly know what's up confirming what I should do next. Thank god this happened on the passenger side.

Do I have to fiddle with TDC before I remove the bolts to the caps? My intention wasn't to remove them in their entirety, just back off all the bolts and retighten to proper spec in proper order.