Xtremluck
New member
Hahaha best visualization ever. Break over angle wha?
LawnDart's Build Thread
- Thread starter LawnDart
- Start date
Hahaha best visualization ever. Break over angle wha?
007Tacoma
New member
LITERALLY CAME HERE FOR THIS!!!
:rofl:
:thumb:
You, sir, win...
007Tacoma
New member
Honestly, Isaac, this makes me feel justified in turning down a good deal on a Ford Raptor 2 years ago. I don't do open desert racing, but your previous posts had me questioning my rational. Good to know my logic was sound.
sn_85
Senior Member
Do you think it's the shear size of the Raptor compared to the 4Runner? Longer wheel base, wider or do you think it had more to do with the 4wd system?
I guess if you have another itch to scratch there's always the Jeep JL Rubicon...lol
Have you not gotten to the "driving one" part of the trip yet? Wonder if being behind the wheel will make you reevaluate.
I do remember watching some videos about the Raptor where people were doing normal off road type stuff and them mentioning how it's a bit more difficult with the width and wheelbase whereas a smaller Jeep or 4Runner could go through areas without so much as a second thought. But then again, if you end up wanting to do fast desert stuff the majority of the time, it would make more sense to have the factory performance of the Raptor.
greatape
Senior Member
One has to add to the equation also, LD is running an $18K suspension system from TAV.
For the group, if you haven't seen what TAV has been doing, go check their site and there stage 1,2,and 3 systems. Top notch and sure the Ranger Goat is soaking it up down there in Baja as well.
As far as the conclusion, sure there are other factors, however not supprised by this conclusion.
jahdai42
Member
Inquiring minds want to know....
LawnDart
Senior Member
So okay, I've been pretty vocal about the Raptor, and vocal about the 4Runner. People know me and my 4Runner pretty well.
Here's my hot take:
I think the Raptor is really badass, but it has one sweet spot: open country. Stock setup wise...I really wasn't impressed with how it handled the whoops, especially since we ran the same trails as last year in some sections. It's also so wide it can't really go through the tight sections as fast as we did. We've had a few wheel speed sensor failures on the 2017/2018s, and a couple of the steering boxes have gotten wet and lost power steering. Yet last year I plowed through a river and the thing just kept on working.
Day one we went into Meling Ranch, via some technical terrain that most stock 4Runners would laugh at, but the Raptors had to have rocks stacked. It's a big truck, that's fine. But last year I'll say the 4Runner was middle of the pack, it's not as fast as a raptor by any means, but it's way faster with much longer range than the jeeps. The jeeps danced down the rock crawling sections.
I also find the Raptor to be exceptionally 'techie' and not in a good way. There's so many technical crutches, such as power steering modes, traction control modes, etc, that I kind of think most drivers lean on those things too heavily. Last year when we lost a wheel speed sensor I could still move the transfer case lever over and use 4WD when needed. On the raptor the minute something throws a code the whole thing basically shits the bed.
I think it's still a brilliant truck, but it's too big, too reliant on software crutches, and frankly outside of baja or the south west...it's just kind of too big for what I want.
I don't know where this leaves me in terms of what I'll do with the 4Runner. But I know that the Raptor isn't meant for me.
I look forward to it at FJ Summit. However Cameron Steel is putting on a Moto/Truck trip in early August in Colorado, so I am kinda tempted to bounce from FJ Summit and instead go do that.
Here's my hot take:
I think the Raptor is really badass, but it has one sweet spot: open country. Stock setup wise...I really wasn't impressed with how it handled the whoops, especially since we ran the same trails as last year in some sections. It's also so wide it can't really go through the tight sections as fast as we did. We've had a few wheel speed sensor failures on the 2017/2018s, and a couple of the steering boxes have gotten wet and lost power steering. Yet last year I plowed through a river and the thing just kept on working.
Day one we went into Meling Ranch, via some technical terrain that most stock 4Runners would laugh at, but the Raptors had to have rocks stacked. It's a big truck, that's fine. But last year I'll say the 4Runner was middle of the pack, it's not as fast as a raptor by any means, but it's way faster with much longer range than the jeeps. The jeeps danced down the rock crawling sections.
I also find the Raptor to be exceptionally 'techie' and not in a good way. There's so many technical crutches, such as power steering modes, traction control modes, etc, that I kind of think most drivers lean on those things too heavily. Last year when we lost a wheel speed sensor I could still move the transfer case lever over and use 4WD when needed. On the raptor the minute something throws a code the whole thing basically shits the bed.
I think it's still a brilliant truck, but it's too big, too reliant on software crutches, and frankly outside of baja or the south west...it's just kind of too big for what I want.
I don't know where this leaves me in terms of what I'll do with the 4Runner. But I know that the Raptor isn't meant for me.
I look forward to it at FJ Summit. However Cameron Steel is putting on a Moto/Truck trip in early August in Colorado, so I am kinda tempted to bounce from FJ Summit and instead go do that.
Honestly, Isaac, this makes me feel justified in turning down a good deal on a Ford Raptor 2 years ago. I don't do open desert racing, but your previous posts had me questioning my rational. Good to know my logic was sound.
LawnDart
Senior Member
If anything I'm for sure going to bring the 4Runner back next year, assuming I'm invited back.
But I'll probably make some changes to my 4Runner for sure.
I'm going to assuredly go from my Nitto Ridge Grappler 35/12.50R17s E Loads to C Loads (C's weren't available at the time in that size when I got them 2 years ago).
I may swap to Fox Shocks...and performance wise it'll be the same, but for Trail of Missions it kinda helps to be running the sponsor equipment, just for the TV show.
I may step down from my Rock Monsters to those new Method Overland rims, that aren't true beadlocks, but my wheel/tire combos are very heavy. Just little things for next year.
In full honesty I hate not having my 4Runner here, as while it's not *A* raptor, it's also way more unique than the other Raptors in some senses.
But I'll probably make some changes to my 4Runner for sure.
I'm going to assuredly go from my Nitto Ridge Grappler 35/12.50R17s E Loads to C Loads (C's weren't available at the time in that size when I got them 2 years ago).
I may swap to Fox Shocks...and performance wise it'll be the same, but for Trail of Missions it kinda helps to be running the sponsor equipment, just for the TV show.
I may step down from my Rock Monsters to those new Method Overland rims, that aren't true beadlocks, but my wheel/tire combos are very heavy. Just little things for next year.
In full honesty I hate not having my 4Runner here, as while it's not *A* raptor, it's also way more unique than the other Raptors in some senses.
TrDpRo_J
New member
The 5th gen 4runner has charm and a fair amount of character.. I feel like the tech (same thing that many people complain is lacking about in the 4R) has been the downfall of modern vehicles.
They are pretty much forgettable and somehow I think the 6th gen will drop into that category also.
Sweet build btw
They are pretty much forgettable and somehow I think the 6th gen will drop into that category also.
Sweet build btw
2nd Chance
New member
Are the fox shocks available as I am sick of looking at my rusty Bilstens ?
007Tacoma
New member
You know... most people tell me I should have gotten E-Load/LT-Rate tires for some of the terrain I do, but my wife and I hated being on E-Load Duratracs in our 2003. Plus, our Wildpeak A/T3Ws have handled everything in style... in C-Load/P-Rated...
So, I'm curious. Do you feel it is a step down to go to C-Load? Are you worried about sidewall punctures?
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Jetboy
New member
LC200? Stock suspension in a tundra with nothing more than coilovers and UCAs is 12.4" of travel. About the same as a Raptor (more than a first gen, less than 2nd gen). It's no accident that a regular Tundra with upgraded springs and shocks can hang with the Raptor. Plus they have other benefits like a better rear suspension design and better rear axle. And - Tundra IFS also happen to be a almost entirely a bolt on swap to an LC200... just saying. The LC200 + tundra IFS is about 11 inches narrower, suspension travel that's almost as much as a 2nd gen raptor, and much better underbody and rear suspension design for the rocks (high and tight). I'm getting more and more certain that this will be my next step rather than go any further with my current 4runner. But I've got to fit it under 6'8" total height - or I can't drive it to work. Starting at 6'2" doesn't leave much room for lift...
Nothing like a little armchair quarterbacking... lol. I could have a lot of fun in a stock 4runner too! Either way - hope you're having a blast on the trip!
Nothing like a little armchair quarterbacking... lol. I could have a lot of fun in a stock 4runner too! Either way - hope you're having a blast on the trip!
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The_Green_Wang
New member
[MENTION=124732]LawnDart[/MENTION] theres a great LC200 for sale on expeditionportal for I think 45k. Its a 2013 and in awesome condition (has ome and front arb bumper). Its just missing your unique mods haha
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
HOJeepster
New member
5th gens are more common than colds.
hayde89
New member
They are common but this is just my opinion it takes a lot more work to make a 4th gen look good.
LawnDart
Senior Member
I agree. 5th gens are common. But people know my 5th gen and it’s unique to me. Other people have done 35s and bypasses and all that stuff. But I was among the first to thrash that kind of setup in Baja, then take it back and do some epic camping a month later.
I appreciate it for what it is. C loads would ride a lot smoother. But put me at risk for sidewall damage. So I walk back that statement of for sure changing to a C load. 5 raptors have broken on this trip.
All the toyotas outside for one taillight are all working. That includes two tundras and one tacoma. All the jeeps are still in the fight.
We’re in Cabo for two days before our push back. While this is a tv show. It’s legitimately hard terrain. The trip meter says 1580 miles to Cabo. Almost all of it off road. We did about the same last year but more off-roading and the turn around was at Loreto.
I personally think the upgraded tundras can hang with the raptors. But a stock tundra has a lot of struggle. And at this point the tundra feels so old for what it is.
The media guys keep telling me how much they miss the 4Runner since it stuck out in the best way possible. So it’ll come back next year for sure.
I’m glad I got the raptor bug out of my system. It’s a cool truck. But I have seen the other side and the grass is still grass.
I appreciate it for what it is. C loads would ride a lot smoother. But put me at risk for sidewall damage. So I walk back that statement of for sure changing to a C load. 5 raptors have broken on this trip.
All the toyotas outside for one taillight are all working. That includes two tundras and one tacoma. All the jeeps are still in the fight.
We’re in Cabo for two days before our push back. While this is a tv show. It’s legitimately hard terrain. The trip meter says 1580 miles to Cabo. Almost all of it off road. We did about the same last year but more off-roading and the turn around was at Loreto.
I personally think the upgraded tundras can hang with the raptors. But a stock tundra has a lot of struggle. And at this point the tundra feels so old for what it is.
The media guys keep telling me how much they miss the 4Runner since it stuck out in the best way possible. So it’ll come back next year for sure.
I’m glad I got the raptor bug out of my system. It’s a cool truck. But I have seen the other side and the grass is still grass.
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