LBJ Failure... My turn.

[the great him]

Ive never owned a vehicle, and Ive had my fair share of vehicles... Where Ball Joints were a PM item. They have always been, as you put it, a reactive maintenance item. Now, I fully understand that with the year 4runner I own, the LBJ is a PM item and I am good with that. However, that is an exception to the rule. Poor design dictates the LBJ on the 4runner is a PM item, rather than a RM item.

The part of your post I snipped is full of "I thinks" and "could bes." Nothing like speculation to make your argument.

no more speculations than the arguments for toyota to issue a recall...

fight fire with fire

 

[opie74]

you heard it hear first folks... dont worry about your LBJs, they either work or they dont, and its not a normal maintenance item so happy care free motoring. and when your car breaks and crashes and kill innocent people feel free to blame toyota, because im sure they are at fault for a bad design....

im sure your big on the unintended acceleration that both toyota and audi had huh?

The point you are failing to recognize is that in other designs, one can determine a LBJ is going bad before it fails. It is not as easy to diagnose with the Toyota design. Often leading to total failure with no prior indication.

NORMALLY, LBJ's are not a "normal maintenance item." As I stated in a previous post, the Toyota design dictates the LBJ is a normal maintenance item in this particular scenario. But that is an exception.

 

[Coastal616]

I can't quite tell in the pics, but did it pull the ball out of the socket or did it actually break?

Cycling suspension with any sort of lift without the springs in is a good practice to get into. You can see if your ball joints are binding before you hit your bumpstops or limiting straps if you have them. Creating bind in the ball joint could be a factor in these things popping out.

On my toyota race truck, the class we were in was required to run ball joints, I used to clearance them with a dremel to get more range of motion, and found some brands of ball joints had different ranges of motion. I always used 555 and only pulled them apart after a bad roll over or crash. They are pretty damn strong.

I plan on something like this and will be rid of all ball joints soon enough. lol

 

[eddiebx]

You can be as self righteous and condescening as you like, but it doesn't change the fact that this is a mission critical part that has a record of failing with little to no warning, with dire and potentially lethal consequences. LBJs are not typically a normal maintenance item, so please don't try to paint this as a "neglect" issue. This LJB either works or it fails. It's not like these things have zerk fittings and they're failing because people aren't greasing them properly. It's a bad design, plain and simple.

Oh, and "my buddy the Toyota tech sez..." is not the same as WHAT TOYOTA RECOMMENDS.

They are not typically considered a maintenance item in the sense that you must replace them every XX yrs and/or XX miles; BUT, I am pretty sure if you look at Toyota's own maintenance schedule it will tell you to periodically inspect all the ball joints and replace when deemed necessary.

I think you're kind of fighting an uphill battle here when trying to say that Toyota does not recommend replacing them as a maintenance item, when it's probably written in the maintenance schedule handbook that comes with the 4runner, lol. I think it's pretty clear that they do in fact tell you to check them periodically and replace them when the service life has been reached.

My point is, bad design not withstanding, it is still a vehicle owner's duty to make sure all parts (especially moving ones) are in good working order, and replace them if not. If you don't up keep these parts, it kind of is neglect...

As a matter of fact, some state's annual safety inspection even requires them to inspect such items for wear and and fail you if necessary, so if anything you can blame the safety inspectors

I understand that perhaps the way they are designed makes it hard for you to inspect, but you still can inspect them some how right? I mean it's not a totally sealed design where you just can't see it period.

Every vehicle has it's quirks and I consider these type of issues just something you have to deal with if you want to own this particular vehicle. Yes it sucks, but at least it's something you can do something about proactively.

 

[drdolittlerwc]

you heard it hear first folks... dont worry about your LBJs, they either work or they dont, and its not a normal maintenance item so happy care free motoring. and when your car breaks and crashes and kill innocent people feel free to blame toyota, because im sure they are at fault for a bad design....

I hear ya, BUT most people don't understand that this sort of thing is a maintenance item. Sadly, even most mechanics don't check them. When I went to WTI (back when WTI was actually in Wyo) that is one thing they mentioned and trained us to do, but with so many doing their own repairs, they don't understand that! :argue:

Education is key!

 

[drdolittlerwc]

They are not typically considered a maintenance item in the sense that you must replace them every XX yrs and/or XX miles; BUT, I am pretty sure if you look at Toyota's own maintenance schedule it will tell you to periodically inspect all the ball joints and replace when deemed necessary.

Ball Joint inspection is more than a visual...

WYO Tech institute training...

When inspecting brakes or suspension, with tires lifted approx 3" off solid ground, place prybar under tire and pry up and down while watching for movement of the ball joints. Plus, if tire moves considerably without affecting suspension, closely inspect and likely replace ball joints.

 

[the great him]

ive never been to wyotec or any other big name schools, in fact technically i have never been to school for any automotive classes other than on the job trainings and workshops, and i have know how to check ball joints for play for a long time. id say a good 80% of our trucks are lifted or carrying extra weight, or some combination of the two. thus meaning that wear on these items is going to be increased and life span decreased...

get over it people, this is a wear item that is factual. wear items wear out that too is factual

 

[drdolittlerwc]

ive never been to wyotec or any other big name schools, in fact technically i have never been to school for any automotive classes other than on the job trainings and workshops, and i have know how to check ball joints for play for a long time.

Though, keep in mind, my WYO tech training was the in '89, and I left the field shortly after and ended up (finally, after machining, and multiple trades) in construction....

When your a 'kid', you don't know where you want to be... no 'pun' intended...

 

[drdolittlerwc]

Though, keep in mind, my WYO tech training was the in '89, and I left the field shortly after and ended up (finally, after machining, and multiple trades) in construction....

When your a 'kid', you don't know where you want to be... no 'pun' intended...

Though, now I know I want to be in BELIZE!!!

 

[the great him]

Though, keep in mind, my WYO tech training was the in '89, and I left the field shortly after and ended up (finally, after machining, and multiple trades) in construction....

When your a 'kid', you don't know where you want to be... no 'pun' intended...

its ok i have no clue what i want to be



-other than a "key board badass" -sarcasm

 

[Nelsonmd]

Another one...

Well, add my pastor to the list. Failed while exiting off the highway driving his young son to pre-school. No one was hurt luckily.

Not too much damage other than the LBJ and the CV. The wheel took some good scraping (see image). Any concern on the wheel as far as continuing to drive on it?

I am either going to replace the axle and LBJ so they can sell it, or my buddy and I are going to scrap it for them, in which case I will strip it as much as I can for replacement parts for my 4runner. It has 177k, is pretty rusty all over, and has a damaged tailgate from rear-ending a post. Scrapping is not really the best option, but they are wanting to get rid of it fast and neither my buddy nor I feel like selling it for them.

 

[ssqv65]

Glad to see everyone is alright! At least it is fixable. Definitely makes me want to replace mine ASAP

 

[nevada]

Well, add my pastor to the list. Failed while exiting off the highway driving his young son to pre-school. No one was hurt luckily.

Not too much damage other than the LBJ and the CV. The wheel took some good scraping (see image). Any concern on the wheel as far as continuing to drive on it?

I am either going to replace the axle and LBJ so they can sell it, or my buddy and I are going to scrap it for them, in which case I will strip it as much as I can for replacement parts for my 4runner. It has 177k, is pretty rusty all over, and has a damaged tailgate from rear-ending a post. Scrapping is not really the best option, but they are wanting to get rid of it fast and neither my buddy nor I feel like selling it for them.

its hard to tell by the pic, but that wheel is probably fine.

and..why don't you buy it? it sounds like he'd let it go for cheap...

 

[Nelsonmd]

its hard to tell by the pic, but that wheel is probably fine.

and..why don't you buy it? it sounds like he'd let it go for cheap...

Yeah, I just don't really have the bandwidth for selling a car right now. I might do that though if that's what it comes down to, though I am tempted by the scrap out because I could strip it of parts for my 4runner first, which would be alot of stuff. Then again, I'd then have alot of crap to store in my garage, which is already full...

 

[rideexileex]

This is quite concerning lately... Not only am I seeing all the reports in here about members' LBJs failing, but when I look up the auto auction / insurance auction rigs, a good 1/4 of them are all missing a front wheel from what looks like LBJ failures. Average miles of most I'm seeing are all in the ~170k mile range, all stock vehicles.

 

[ben550]

I was in a hurry when I read it, then commented. I thought about it, and reread it, and I do think you're right.

but, there other vehicles out there with ball joints in the same orientation.
i have personally seen some failures, but none on a Toyota.

ive changed hundreds, if not thousands of ball joints, never once have we used an OEM part, and we have never had one come back for any reason.

i think maybe only 1-2 of those were on Toyotas.

I know this is an old post, but wanted to ask you what you thought of NAPA LBJs and Tie Rods? I have an 06 and am trying to tighten up the steering (Wanders in the lane at highway speed). What aftermarket parts did you typically use? Thanks.

 

[Nelsonmd]

I know this is an old post, but wanted to ask you what you thought of NAPA LBJs and Tie Rods? I have an 06 and am trying to tighten up the steering (Wanders in the lane at highway speed). What aftermarket parts did you typically use? Thanks.

Several guys have used Napa LBJ's and TRE's and I don't think we have had a failure on them yet. I don't think they are much cheaper than OEM though, so I would stick with OEM.

You are in the wrong section though, we are 3rd gen which is 96-02, you want to head over to the 4th gen section and ask them. The 4th gen LBJ's and TRE's are a completely different (and MUCH better) design, so our opinions aren't really of any value to you. In general though, Napa chassis/premium parts are pretty well respected, though they are just re-brandings of other aftermarket parts, Napa doesn't make anything themselves.

 

[nevada]

I know this is an old post, but wanted to ask you what you thought of NAPA LBJs and Tie Rods? I have an 06 and am trying to tighten up the steering (Wanders in the lane at highway speed). What aftermarket parts did you typically use? Thanks.

we most often use CARQUEST parts. but sometimes Napa, or various other parts stores as well.


don't start replacing parts until you know they are bad.

 

[nissanh]

NOT MINE!

In August of 2015 I installed a non-OEM O'rielly's LBJ's on my neighbor's 03 Tacoma (Yes, I said no, no nooooo. It was a Sunday and they were in a hurry).

In less than 15,000 miles, 19 months later they experienced it... All were safe and happened a few feet from their home.

 

[BrownDog40]

What to replace other than the LBJ

I have had my 4runner for about 14 yrs with ~175k miles with no issues but reading this thread makes me want to replace the LBJ before it fails. In addition to replacing these with OEM replacements, are there other area of failure I should be concerned about? Or parts that should be replaces like the tie rods or UBJs?

Thanks in advance for any advice.