LBJ Grease Zerk

[Co4Fun]

SAS is pretty much the only option. With new OEM LBJ's and poly bushings its a pretty good control arm. I have hit mine with rock and they are still fine. Im more worried about breaking a CV than anything else up front.

Ya. Even if I could go SAS...for what I do and the overlanding aspect I'd rather keep the IFS. I've just been bummed to learn the downfall of this design on the 3rd gens because otherwise I really love this rig (so I'll deal with it.) Although...I am a bit surprised NO ONE has come out with something aftermarket to remedy this.

But, for the CV I have had the same thought and think this is the answer here...but note that price is EACH. Still...sweet. LACC91683 - Lotus Heavy Duty Front Chromoly Caged CV Axle

 

[Black798]

Ya. Even if I could go SAS...for what I do and the overlanding aspect I'd rather keep the IFS. I've just been bummed to learn the downfall of this design on the 3rd gens because otherwise I really love this rig (so I'll deal with it.) Although...I am a bit surprised NO ONE has come out with something aftermarket to remedy this.]

I was surprised at the fact that there isnt a largely produced solution to strengthen the lower ball joint too. I suppose if you wanted to go custom you could convert the ball joint to a uniball, that way you could actually tell when it started to wear.

I saw a thread a while back where a member was trying to convert them to uniball and sell them but I dont think he was ever able to get the necessary volume and he was asking around 500 for a set IIRC

 

[JayRolla]

Ya. Even if I could go SAS...for what I do and the overlanding aspect I'd rather keep the IFS. I've just been bummed to learn the downfall of this design on the 3rd gens because otherwise I really love this rig (so I'll deal with it.) Although...I am a bit surprised NO ONE has come out with something aftermarket to remedy this.

But, for the CV I have had the same thought and think this is the answer here...but note that price is EACH. Still...sweet. LACC91683 - Lotus Heavy Duty Front Chromoly Caged CV Axle

Its not a downfall offroad if you replace the ball joint. Mine made it 200k miles on originals.

Best cv fix is keep spare in the back and tools to swap on the trail.

 

[Co4Fun]

Its not a downfall offroad if you replace the ball joint. Mine made it 200k miles on originals.

Best cv fix is keep spare in the back and tools to swap on the trail.

I had wondered if anyone did that. With my Jeep I carried an extra stub shaft which was needed to secure the hub assembly...but other than that the entire axle could then be removed from the tube and you still had a driving and rolling vehicle. Same with CV on the toy...an extra would be best but you could also just remove it and you can still drive it (2 or even 3 wheel drive), roll it, etc.

But that's for CV. On a LBJ...that could leave you without a rolling vehicle and I saw a guy in a Taco in this very dilemma a few years back doing a LBJ trailside replacement on a steep hill and completely blocking the trail due to the fact that it was immobile. So, do you carry spare LBJ assemblies? Hmmm? Depending on how this goes I guess I may have them.

As I move toward a rear swing out bumper I've been thinking of ways to utilize the spare tire area to stow some spare parts....

 

[Magmotor]

So what are these then? Maybe Napa type quality? I don't see the 555 marking. Hopefully not Moog? Anyone have a guess?

If your talking about your '99 RockAuto has 2 LBJ's that has the fittings on them. SKP #SK90263 for $14.88 (ouch)....ACDELCO #45D2299 $50.79
Let's hope its not either one....good luck...

 

[JayRolla]

I had wondered if anyone did that. With my Jeep I carried an extra stub shaft which was needed to secure the hub assembly...but other than that the entire axle could then be removed from the tube and you still had a driving and rolling vehicle. Same with CV on the toy...an extra would be best but you could also just remove it and you can still drive it (2 or even 3 wheel drive), roll it, etc.

But that's for CV. On a LBJ...that could leave you without a rolling vehicle and I saw a guy in a Taco in this very dilemma a few years back doing a LBJ trailside replacement on a steep hill and completely blocking the trail due to the fact that it was immobile. So, do you carry spare LBJ assemblies? Hmmm? Depending on how this goes I guess I may have them.

As I move toward a rear swing out bumper I've been thinking of ways to utilize the spare tire area to stow some spare parts....

I carry a cheap non oem ball joint.

 

[I_bRAD]

I just ordered them through Toyota parts direct Canada - ship out of Ontario they were around $140 each CAD, my local dealer down the street wanted $191 each + taxes and wouldn't even take my credit card # over the phone, wanted me to come in and pre pay....

That's up to the shop. My shop will take an order over the phone, but coming from someone that's owned a shop before unless it's someone you trust I totally see where they're coming from with the deposit/up front payment. Too many people think it's OK to order hundreds of dollars worth of parts and then bail.
(not saying you would, but once bitten twice shy)

 

[Tyler James Inc]

Solo makes boxed LCA's, but I don't think the LCA is anything to worry about- they aren't prone to failure at all.
Solo does make a uniball bolt on LBJ replacement as well. In my opinion, the LBJ isn't something to worry about either though. As long as they're replaced every 100k miles- with OEM- you shouldn't have any problems. I'll bet the uniballs wouldn't still be tight after 100k miles either...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[I_bRAD]

Nah, they will no longer ship to Canada. Nor will T.Of.Dallas. I bought a lot this way a couple of years back but Toyota caught on and shut it down.

I have discovered that some Toyota dealers in Canada are cheaper than others. My local is expensive but I can save money ordering from Calgary area. It's worth calling around.

Depending how close to the border you are, Kinek is an option assuming you have a passport and don't mind the hassle of crossing the border. Not as good of a deal these days with a weak dollar though, but when it was at par a few years back it was great!

 

[JayRolla]

Solo makes boxed LCA's, but I don't think the LCA is anything to worry about- they aren't prone to failure at all.
Solo does make a uniball bolt on LBJ replacement as well. In my opinion, the LBJ isn't something to worry about either though. As long as they're replaced every 100k miles- with OEM- you shouldn't have any problems. I'll bet the uniballs wouldn't still be tight after 100k miles either...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Always forget about Solo Motorsports. There product always makes me drool!!

 

[sawguy]

They do resemble Moog LBJ's...my oem's did not have zerk plugs

 

[Co4Fun]

Always forget about Solo Motorsports. There product always makes me drool!!

Mmmm....Toyota 1" Lower Uniball & 7/8" Heim Steering Upgrade - Solo Motorsports

 

[Co4Fun]

Okay guys,

So I have been talking with my mech over the weekend and want to pass along what he is saying. Don't kill the messenger here if you disagree with what is being said and I myself am still learning. But again, this guy is a WELL KNOWN yota mech here in CO and works on a lot of the Rising Sun club rigs so I do think he knows his stuff.

According to him (and he even sent me some pics), his parts supplier (and all of them outside the dealerships) have to source OEM parts from Aisin as they can't get the Toyota branded ones. This is a LOT like AC Delco and Chevrolet although Aisin is owned 30% BY Toyota themselves. And therefore, Aisin is THE direct manufacturer and supplier of OEM Toyota parts (in BOTH the original/dealer and certified Toyota service sectors) for Toyota themselves. They build to OEM spec FOR Toyota. When they do this for the dealership route, they brand them as "Toyota" and sell them through dealerships only. And that tracks because as this forum has covered, you can really only get Toyota branded LBJ's through dealerships and a few other limited sources. When they build them outside of that for direct replacement part sale for certified Toyota distributer/mech supply chains, then they brand them as Aisin and they are NOT branded directly as "Toyota" and often are painted and/or changed slightly...sometimes only have a ground off portion where the "Toyota" moniker would be. But, apparently they are every bit up to OEM spec as actual branded "Toyota" parts for all the aforementioned reasons. And, you will even find Aisin branded parts on your original truck. And so, these LBJ's on my truck now are Aisin.

I also poked around and found some stuff around the web backing a lot of this up:

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4113237/Re:_Aisin_parts_Genuine_Toyota

https://www.yotashop.com/brands/AISIN.html

30% owned by Toyota: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisin_Seiki

So, anyway, I'm not claiming to know all this for certain but I'm putting pieces together and it's not as simple as I thought. But I do feel confident these are at least not moog or something like that and it's coming down to a trust issue with my mech here. I also think that you'd find that the Napa brand ones are likely from the Aisin factory too and probably not as horrible as we might think.

But then you all had to go and show me the Solo stuff...lol.

 

[nobb]

...

Your post makes sense, but I have never seen an AISIN branded LBJ for the 4Runner. The part you get from Toyota is painted black with no branding. There is also no aftermarket place outside of a Toyota dealer that you can get this part.

There was some speculation that Sankei 555 was the OEM supplier for these LBJs, but I made a post a while back where I examined the joint and they are clearly different than the OEM Toyota ones.

 

[Black798]

Your post makes sense, but I have never seen an AISIN branded LBJ for the 4Runner. The part you get from Toyota is painted black with no branding. There is also no aftermarket place outside of a Toyota dealer that you can get this part.

There was some speculation that Sankei 555 was the OEM supplier for these LBJs, but I made a post a while back where I examined the joint and they are clearly different than the OEM Toyota ones.

I would also agree that the OP's mechanic's explanation makes sense, but after seeing @nobb's post. Link and another thread where someone took a cross section of both a OEM toyota joint and aftermarket and the aftermarket was nowhere near the OEM quality. I wouldnt take the chance with a part that if it fails is catastrophic. I would only order directly from toyota.

 

[Co4Fun]

Thanks all and you know I actually agree with all you guys on almost all your points.

I really should have just done it myself with OEM's or at least if I was going to have someone else do it...get the OEM's myself to make sure. The funny think is that I'm not a stranger to wrenching and I actually enjoy it and again, I am really picky so it usually works out best when I just do it myself to my standards. But, I've been pressed on all sides with work, family stuff, etc. and I didn't want to put this off so I had it done.

I do like and trust this mechanic overall and as you all say, I think his explanation is fair and I will use him in the future for certain things as well. But yes, looking back I should have ensured it was OEM, sourced them myself, or researched the solo's more and just put the money in a setup like that.

So for now though, with custom bumpers in the queue, I can't dump the money in solo's right now...maybe OEM's here in another year or so but until then these will have to hold up. And they will make good spares I guess when I finally get back to this.

Thanks for all the input and if ANYONE has any more info on those solo's I'd love to hear...

 

[Black798]

The funny think is that I'm not a stranger to wrenching and I actually enjoy it and again, I am really picky so it usually works out best when I just do it myself to my standards.

Thanks for all the input and if ANYONE has any more info on those solo's I'd love to hear...

Im the same way with maintenance on my 4runner. I have major trust issues with shops and after having to take my friend to pick up his car from the shop 4 times in two weeks and watching him spend 4 times what he should have because the shop never did what they said and just made more problems. Id rather do it myself and know if something fails it is my responsibility.

Here is the link to the converted uniball lower joints if anyone is interested.

 

[Tyler James Inc]

I agree- that it makes sense what he is saying. That being said- I'm having a hard time trusting that to be true.
We have seen clear pictures of aftermarket LBJ's- that have a spitting image of yours- that have failed after just a short amount of time/miles(the link I posted above to the main 3G 4R LBJ Replacement thread).
If yours were made by the supposed-OEM manufacturer, why do they much more closely resemble the cheap aftermarket units than the OEM Genuine Toyota units?
What you're being told may be true, however, I wouldn't be able to have confidence in this part- on my own vehicle- unless I could find where it said "AISIN" in the casting.

 

[Co4Fun]

I agree- that it makes sense what he is saying. That being said- I'm having a hard time trusting that to be true.
We have seen clear pictures of aftermarket LBJ's- that have a spitting image of yours- that have failed after just a short amount of time/miles(the link I posted above to the main 3G 4R LBJ Replacement thread).
If yours were made by the supposed-OEM manufacturer, why do they much more closely resemble the cheap aftermarket units than the OEM Genuine Toyota units?
What you're being told may be true, however, I wouldn't be able to have confidence in this part- on my own vehicle- unless I could find where it said "AISIN" in the casting.

Yep, I know. This LBJ thing is a BIG deal to me. It's the only disappointing thing I've discovered about the 3rd gen...a chink in the otherwise formidable armor.

Knowing about the solo setup now, I admit that's what I'm going to likely save for and give that a try. And you get upgraded tie rod ends too so why not? (Price being the obvious barrier.) I want to fix this issue as best as possible while still staying IFS. So, it's yet another thing to save for. I just sort of wish I hadn't had this detour of course and again, it will have to wait for awhile. One final thought from my mech...he did say that these carry the same warranty of OEM which apparently not all the aftermarkets do...like moog etc. so maybe that's a good sign.

 

[lbhsbz]

Okay guys,

So I have been talking with my mech over the weekend and want to pass along what he is saying. Don't kill the messenger here if you disagree with what is being said and I myself am still learning. But again, this guy is a WELL KNOWN yota mech here in CO and works on a lot of the Rising Sun club rigs so I do think he knows his stuff.

According to him (and he even sent me some pics), his parts supplier (and all of them outside the dealerships) have to source OEM parts from Aisin as they can't get the Toyota branded ones. This is a LOT like AC Delco and Chevrolet although Aisin is owned 30% BY Toyota themselves. And therefore, Aisin is THE direct manufacturer and supplier of OEM Toyota parts (in BOTH the original/dealer and certified Toyota service sectors) for Toyota themselves. They build to OEM spec FOR Toyota. When they do this for the dealership route, they brand them as "Toyota" and sell them through dealerships only. And that tracks because as this forum has covered, you can really only get Toyota branded LBJ's through dealerships and a few other limited sources. When they build them outside of that for direct replacement part sale for certified Toyota distributer/mech supply chains, then they brand them as Aisin and they are NOT branded directly as "Toyota" and often are painted and/or changed slightly...sometimes only have a ground off portion where the "Toyota" moniker would be. But, apparently they are every bit up to OEM spec as actual branded "Toyota" parts for all the aforementioned reasons. And, you will even find Aisin branded parts on your original truck. And so, these LBJ's on my truck now are Aisin.

I also poked around and found some stuff around the web backing a lot of this up:

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4113237/Re:_Aisin_parts_Genuine_Toyota

https://www.yotashop.com/brands/AISIN.html

30% owned by Toyota: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisin_Seiki

So, anyway, I'm not claiming to know all this for certain but I'm putting pieces together and it's not as simple as I thought. But I do feel confident these are at least not moog or something like that and it's coming down to a trust issue with my mech here. I also think that you'd find that the Napa brand ones are likely from the Aisin factory too and probably not as horrible as we might think.

But then you all had to go and show me the Solo stuff...lol.

Tell your mechanic to stop making things up.

I'm in the chassis parts business...I deal with a lot of ball joints. Toyota is the only place to get OEM ball joints for the 4runner. I've cut open OE parts and just about every aftermarket variation of this particular ball joint and toyota has a unique design not used by ANYBODY else.

If I had to guess where the part on your truck came from based only on the pictures and the price you paid, I'd say it's made by Sankai 555 in Japan. They are one of the few that use bare, uncoated housings...even Moog puts a mag-phosphate treatment on their parts. This is most certainly not an OEM part, and actually couldn't be further away from the OEM design.

The OE toyota ball joints use a polished ball stud in a 2 piece plastic liner. The load bearing part of the liner is a silvery grey, which generally indicates a graphite impregnated material. the "cup" is solid...with no grooves or voids for the material to "cold flow" under pressure. The ball stud is inserted into the liner from the unloaded side, then a lower plastic cap (likely polyurethane) is snapped in to encapsulate the ball in the liner. The entire assembly is then stuffed into the housing and the end cap installed and roll formed in place. These literally cannot wear out unless the boots are damaged and allow in contamination that causes corrosion, abrasion, and liner wear. The common failure mode that everyone is experiencing has to do with the liner material becoming brittle after 15 years and cracking, allowing the ball to wear against the forged housing.

The 555 ball joints are a metal on metal type...as are MOOG, although a slightly different design. That's why they feel rough when new. You have a steel ball stud wearing against a steel socket. Unless these are greased on a very regular basis with a moly/extreme pressure grease, you will have a lot of wear quickly. I have both a MOOG and a 555 part cut open that show wear/galling after only 15K miles.

Most of the aftermarket plastic lined parts use a 1 piece liner that expands over the ball stud...the liners have to have slits in them to allow this expansion, and those slits allow room for the material to "cold flow" under use, and they will loosen up.

OE from the dealer is the only way to go here...and just change them every 15 or 20 years.

I'll try and dig up all the pictures I have of the various types.