LBJ Uniball?

[Devbot]

Anyone know what the word is on these? I remember seeing them first pop up a couple years ago with a bit of excitement following them, and then suddenly no word on them. They actually completely slipped my mind until this morning and I'm curious if anyone has sent in a pair in the time they've been out. Seems like a very appealing fix for LBJs - kind of a high cost initially but ball joints will only run you $30-40 a piece afterwards
Toyota Tacoma Lower Uniball LBJ Conversion - Anonymous Fabrication

 

[theesotericone]

Anyone know what the word is on these? I remember seeing them first pop up a couple years ago with a bit of excitement following them, and then suddenly no word on them. They actually completely slipped my mind until this morning and I'm curious if anyone has sent in a pair in the time they've been out. Seems like a very appealing fix for LBJs - kind of a high cost initially but ball joints will only run you $30-40 a piece afterwards
Toyota Tacoma Lower Uniball LBJ Conversion - Anonymous Fabrication

I don't know anyone running them and I'm not at all convinced it's worth the cost. The one thing it doesn't address is the LBJ bolts themselves. I've sheared 5 of those in total. I've never once actually had the LBJ ball pull out of the cup. A few years ago I just sourced after market 10.9 bolts for the LBJ and haven't had a failure since.

I really wish there was a way to figure out how many LBJ failures where actually a failure of the ball and cup and how many where bolt failures. I'm willing to bet a very large percentage where actually bolt failures.

 

[Dezert4Runner]

I have a set that’s pending install.

Uniball LBJ from Anonymous Fabrication | IFS OFFROAD

 

[Devbot]

I have a set that’s pending install.

Uniball LBJ from Anonymous Fabrication | IFS OFFROAD

Do keep posted
I think it'd be wise to pack that little plastic cap full of grease

 

[Dezert4Runner]

Do keep posted
I think it'd be wise to pack that little plastic cap full of grease

Uniballs aren’t supposed to be conventionally greased, just teflon based dry lubricant to keep them lubed. The cover is more to keep stuff out since it’s exposed without a rubber boot like a regular ball joint.

 

[FD7683]

The one thing it doesn't address is the LBJ bolts themselves. I've sheared 5 of those in total. I've never once actually had the LBJ ball pull out of the cup. A few years ago I just sourced after market 10.9 bolts for the LBJ and haven't had a failure since.

Did you torque them correctly with a dab of loctite though? If you did, thats scary if the OEM bolts failed which is sad. I though they only sheared off when they were over/under torqued.

 

[JZiggy]

Anonymous fab shows ARP fasteners as replacements. I was going to look into that and spec some out. 180kpsi strength vs typical 150psi in 10.9 and grade 8 applications.

 

[octanejunkie]

I have a set that’s pending install.



Uniball LBJ from Anonymous Fabrication | IFS OFFROAD

EDIT: found their site and sent them a note. They have a discount process that makes this more appealing but they do say right on the site that this mod doesn't prevent LBJ failure...

 

[96RedRunner]

Been a while since I've looked at knuckle LBJ mating surfaces.
Is there room in knuckle to accept a domed cover on backside of LBJ uniball same as it is on OE domed for clearance?
Would be pressed in on top of snap ring holding uniball in place.
Was just thinking on it. Pack area with lube cover it up.

https://www.independentoffroading.c...0708193&hash=4c025c4d5d73ec411c4700c02e2abbb6

 

[96RedRunner]

thats scary if the OEM bolts failed which is sad..

For us I agree, for the masses NTSB determined a shear point would affect impact energy in a good way
they're the weakest link looking at the whole.

 

[Dezert4Runner]

Anonymous fab shows ARP fasteners as replacements. I was going to look into that and spec some out. 180kpsi strength vs typical 150psi in 10.9 and grade 8 applications.

I picked some up from him with the uniball LBJ’s. Photo is in the link I posted.

EDIT: found their site and sent them a note. They have a discount process that makes this more appealing but they do say right on the site that this mod doesn't prevent LBJ failure...

Typical disclaimer, and also true. It’s still possible to shear one of the 4 bolts, and for the snap ring to fail. It’s just a much lower odds, if you ask me.

Been a while since I've looked at knuckle LBJ mating surfaces.
Is there room in knuckle to accept a domed cover on backside of LBJ uniball same as it is on OE domed for clearance?
Would be pressed in on top of snap ring holding uniball in place.
Was just thinking on it. Pack area with lube cover it up.

https://www.independentoffroading.c...0708193&hash=4c025c4d5d73ec411c4700c02e2abbb6

The 3d printed cover included fits in between the LBJ and spindle, just barely. It slides into the LBJ without affecting the movement of the uniball. I’m not sure offhand if it is pressing against the snap ring enough to keep it seated, but in theory shouldn't need to.

 

[theesotericone]

Did you torque them correctly with a dab of loctite though? If you did, thats scary if the OEM bolts failed which is sad. I though they only sheared off when they were over/under torqued.

Properly torqued OEM bolts with loctite. To be clear they did not back out. They sheared. I also use my rig a little heavier then most guys do. Big tires, big rocks = snapped OEM bolts.

ITypical disclaimer, and also true. It’s still possible to shear one of the 4 bolts, and for the snap ring to fail. It’s just a much lower odds, if you ask me.

A uniball is no doubt stronger and the chances of a properly seated snap ring failing are pretty low. If he's shipping 10.9 bolts with the kit he's also aware the OEM bolts are the weak point.

For me the extra cost for going uniball isn't worth it. If I was a go-fast desert guy, like you, I'd make the swap without a second thought. The uniball is stronger and will also have a greater range of motion for sudden loading and unloading. Every tool in the kit should be tailored to the job. For my rigs job they make no sense. For yours they make a lot more.

 

[Dezert4Runner]

A uniball is no doubt stronger and the chances of a properly seated snap ring failing are pretty low. If he's shipping 10.9 bolts with the kit he's also aware the OEM bolts are the weak point.

Yep, even the oem bolts can shear, and Josh was aware of this being a concern when trying to make these as bulllet proof of a product as possible. He includes the 10.9 and the ARP are an optional upgrade. I believe the ARP bolts are grade 12.9.

For me the extra cost for going uniball isn't worth it. If I was a go-fast desert guy, like you, I'd make the swap without a second thought. The uniball is stronger and will also have a greater range of motion for sudden loading and unloading. Every tool in the kit should be tailored to the job. For my rigs job they make no sense. For yours they make a lot more.

You summed it up perfectly. It’s not for everybody’s wheeling style or terrain. I run some rock crawling trails but also enjoy some faster desert runs, and also live where it’s relatively arid. I would never run these if I was into mudding or lived somewhere that had a lot of rust issues. Uniballs can still rust out and I wouldn’t want salt from the winter roads just sitting inside the uniball. The 3d printed cap that’s included stops debris from getting in from the top, but the bottom is still exposed.

 

[JZiggy]

Yep, even the oem bolts can shear, and Josh was aware of this being a concern when trying to make these as bulllet proof of a product as possible. He includes the 10.9 and the ARP are an optional upgrade. I believe the ARP bolts are grade 12.9.



You summed it up perfectly. It’s not for everybody’s wheeling style or terrain. I run some rock crawling trails but also enjoy some faster desert runs, and also live where it’s relatively arid. I would never run these if I was into mudding or lived somewhere that had a lot of rust issues. Uniballs can still rust out and I wouldn’t want salt from the winter roads just sitting inside the uniball. The 3d printed cap that’s included stops debris from getting in from the top, but the bottom is still exposed.

It would be interesting to see if a seal like this would work for the lower side of the uniball.

Boots, Rubber 7/8 Male and Female Rod Ends

 

[96RedRunner]

It would be interesting to see if a seal like this would work for the lower side of the uniball.

Boots, Rubber 7/8 Male and Female Rod Ends

Was thinking along this line myself, I frequent mud and rust belt so sealing is important.

 

[cl4Rk]

Anonymous fab shows ARP fasteners as replacements. I was going to look into that and spec some out. 180kpsi strength vs typical 150psi in 10.9 and grade 8 applications.

Any downsides to upgrading the bolts to the ARPs while still running the OEM LBJs? Like, would this create an unintended weak link somewhere else? (And would it matter?)

Here's the link: Toyota ARP Spindle Lower Ball Joint Hardware - Anonymous Fabrication

Thanks!

 

[WeakSauz]

Any downsides to upgrading the bolts to the ARPs while still running the OEM LBJs? Like, would this create an unintended weak link somewhere else? (And would it matter?)

Here's the link: Toyota ARP Spindle Lower Ball Joint Hardware - Anonymous Fabrication

Thanks!

No downsides other than how expensive they are. Just added overall strength. I have been running ARP 763-1003 SS HEX M10x1.25, 30mm length in my OEM LBJ for about 2yrs now. Lots of hard wheeling in rocks, impacts, lots of street miles. Anything you can imagine really. Much stronger than the Toyota bolts @ 180k psi. Toyota bolts are just fine also! But you cant really compare the strength of ARP vs Toyota. Different leagues. I think you'd rip the threads right out of the Knuckle before you break an ARP bolt. Which, if that happens, youve probably hit something so hard youre rig is totaled anyway

The purists will want to burn me at the stakes for this and start talking about how the factory bolts are TTY for a reason and have stretch built in, yada yada.

 

[JZiggy]

No downsides other than how expensive they are. Just added overall strength. I have been running ARP 763-1003 SS HEX M10x1.25, 30mm length in my OEM LBJ for about 2yrs now. Lots of hard wheeling in rocks, impacts, lots of street miles. Anything you can imagine really. Much stronger than the Toyota bolts @ 180k psi. Toyota bolts are just fine also! But you cant really compare the strength of ARP vs Toyota. Different leagues. I think you'd rip the threads right out of the Knuckle before you break an ARP bolt. Which, if that happens, youve probably hit something so hard youre rig is totaled anyway

The purists will want to burn me at the stakes for this and start talking about how the factory bolts are TTY for a reason and have stretch built in, yada yada.

Nah, the factory bolts aren't TTY. If they were the torque procedure would be something like "30 ft-lb + 60* of rotation".

It looks like ARP's stainless bolts are 170ksi and the black oxide chromoly ones are 180ksi or higher.

 

[cl4Rk]

[MENTION=148218]JZiggy[/MENTION] [MENTION=279370]WeakSauz[/MENTION]

I assume you'd still want to use the FSM torque spec for these stronger bolts since the knuckle threads would now be the weak link?

(Anonymous Fab says the are for 2000-2002 model years, so 59 ft/lbs)

 

[WeakSauz]

Nah, the factory bolts aren't TTY. If they were the torque procedure would be something like "30 ft-lb + 60* of rotation".

Oh, I 100% agree with you. I just know we'll have someone come in here claiming it haha