Leaking third member seal

[Mark_BC]

I noticed this today. I am doing a 3000 km round trip trip to California in 2 weeks. I doubt this is an issue but what is your opinion. I searched and can only find posts on axle seals leaking. The breather is fairly new so the leak isn't from overpressure. You can also see a little bit of drip on the differential itself but this is from the fill plug which I didn't use a new crush washer on. That is a separate leak. Also a picture of our beer drinking dog.

Edit: the back end has always hummed pretty loud proportional to speed. But I did 7000 km over the new years holidays without problem.

 

[Scramble]

I only clicked like for the beer drinking dog, not your leak. I'll be back to reply later.

 

[nissanh]

You can easily do a 3000 Km trip with that leak. Make sure to top it off before the trip. It is easy to replace the seal. Make sure to get an OEM seal and check the surface of the flange. If it is grooved deeply you may need a flange as well. Usually, the flange can handle 2-3 oil seals before it needs a replacement.

 

[Mark_BC]

Thanks. I actually have a "new" axle with e-locker to go in but I am not ready for it yet so this one will have to hold out until then.

 

[thegipper]

It looks like two leaks to me, around the 3rd member housing and the pinion seal.

When I swapped in a LSD 3rd member, I just cleaned up the housing/3rd member and used Permatex right stuff gasket maker. That stuffs works really well and dries very quickly.

If the pinion seal is leaking, I'm not sure what is all involved in replacing it. Someone on here should know though.

 

[Scramble]

When I got back from my trip to Virginia last Feb I noticed my gasket was leaking at the very bottom center. I tightened all of the nuts but didn't fix it. I had no idea how much leaked out so I topped it off & I was only down 1/2qt. I stopped driving it instead of risking my gears except for one snowstorm I needed to get to work in. I would have just replaced the gasket but since I have an e-locker axle housing I decided to hold off on the repair & replace the whole thing.

Yours looks like a pinion seal too. I haven't done that.

Make sure you hit everything with WD40. Top of the Diff & let it run down both sides between the carrier & axle housing. Diff nuts, half of my studs came out with the nuts. Be careful not to break the studs, I broke one but have extra from my other housing. Drive shaft bolts. Brake lines, otherwise you'll twist them & have to replace.

Take the drums off, makes the axles lighter when pulling out.
I used my chisel set & a hammer to get the carrier off. Mallets weren't doing crap. Just be very careful not to damage the carrier & housing. Take your time. Put a jack under the housing & maybe a 2'x2' piece of plywood under it, it's heavy! I did it with the housing off the truck so it was easier for me.

Good luck!

 

[phattyduck]

If the diff is also humming, you may have a pinion bearing issue causing that leak. Let's hope its just the seal!

-Charlie

 

[Mark_BC]

When I got back from my trip to Virginia last Feb I noticed my gasket was leaking at the very bottom center. I tightened all of the nuts but didn't fix it. I had no idea how much leaked out so I topped it off & I was only down 1/2qt. I stopped driving it instead of risking my gears except for one snowstorm I needed to get to work in. I would have just replaced the gasket but since I have an e-locker axle housing I decided to hold off on the repair & replace the whole thing.

Yours looks like a pinion seal too. I haven't done that.

Make sure you hit everything with WD40. Top of the Diff & let it run down both sides between the carrier & axle housing. Diff nuts, half of my studs came out with the nuts. Be careful not to break the studs, I broke one but have extra from my other housing. Drive shaft bolts. Brake lines, otherwise you'll twist them & have to replace.

Take the drums off, makes the axles lighter when pulling out.
I used my chisel set & a hammer to get the carrier off. Mallets weren't doing crap. Just be very careful not to damage the carrier & housing. Take your time. Put a jack under the housing & maybe a 2'x2' piece of plywood under it, it's heavy! I did it with the housing off the truck so it was easier for me.

Good luck!

I'm just gonna replace the whole rear end including 3rd member. But I leave in less than 2 weeks with only one weekend to go which I was plannign to do other stuff. I don't think this is something I should do before a big trip especially since I don't know how good the "new" axle is. I really hope it holds out 3000 km. Today I'm doing 100 km so I'll have another look at it after that. It isn't leaking enough that it drips on the floor. I don't mind topping up fluid as I go, I just don't want any bearings seizing.

 

[Mark_BC]

Sounds just like what [MENTION=71326]Buckaroo[/MENTION] had. I just don't know if I should risk the 3000 km trip like this, if these things suddenly go bad and leave me stranded. Like I said, I did 7000 km to Mexico with this deep whine like tire noise, and it was OK but it wasn't leaking then. Or I could get a shop next week to replace the bearings, and of course pay big $$ for it, and hope they fixed the problem. I just changed the fluid and the old stuff looked good coming out so no metal bits.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...ining-howling-pinion-bearing.html#post1872974

 

[JZiggy]

If your fluid isn't showing and particulates then it may just be worn bearings or low bearing preload. Put fresh fluid in there and drive it til it gets really noisy

 

[Mark_BC]

If your fluid isn't showing and particulates then it may just be worn bearings or low bearing preload. Put fresh fluid in there and drive it til it gets really noisy

I like the sound of that. If I have any problems I can take a detour to 'Frisco and have mtbtim do a video on third member pinion gears, unless he's already done that one.

 

[Mark_BC]

Actually I just realised the reason it is probably leaking now is because I recently changed the fluid and topped it right up to the fill plug. That is probably pushing the level further up the cone to where it is leaking out the pinion now. That is a good sign because it means it isn't leaking because it is about to fail or something.

 

[JZiggy]

I've never had a third member fail so take this with a grain of salt, but it seems they usually go out two ways:

- Shock overloading, like offroading (obstacle + skinny pedal + low range) or mall crawling (hitting curbs HARD, burnouts [LOL])
- Slow death due to age/wear/lack of fluid changes. Bearings get noisy and sloppy, and start to howl getting worse over time. Of course if they are like this already then they're more likely to pop due to an overload event.

As the bearings wear and lose preload they don't support the gears as well or keep them in the best alignment.

 

[kolelt]

If it's humming. It's probably a bearing inside the carrier. And when you take out the third member to replace it. Just replace all bearings in there. The bearing kit is about $200 which uses Koyo bearings.

Check your diff fluid if any left ? What color is it? Maybe try replacing the fluid and see how it sounds ? To replace the pinion seal, everything can be attached. You just need to mark the bolt properly, remove it. Remove the seal. Replace the seal and run the bolt back to the exact location. I needed to replace my pinion seal after the aftermarket one failed week after fixing my bearings.

Also if you have access to a lift ? Put the truck on a lift. Lift it up a little and put it in drive. If you hear nasty sound in the rear. It's the bearings.

Your gears will be fine. But I recommend changing the bearings ASAP if it is.

 

[Mark_BC]

It doesn't sound like bearings, it is a hum which sounds like gears not meshing properly which would be from a loose bearing? I think if the bearings were making the noise I would have had problems by now since I have done 10,000 km with this noise. But maybe I am wrong. It only has to last another 3000 km, if I wreck it I don't care since I'm putting another one on and this one is open diffs so not worth much anyways.

 

[Scramble]

It doesn't sound like bearings, it is a hum which sounds like gears not meshing properly which would be from a loose bearing? I think if the bearings were making the noise I would have had problems by now since I have done 10,000 km with this noise. But maybe I am wrong. It only has to last another 3000 km, if I wreck it I don't care since I'm putting another one on and this one is open diffs so not worth much anyways.

So your new ratio is the same as what you have now?

 

[Mark_BC]

Right now is 4.1 and new ratio will be 4.3. I also got a 4.3 front diff last time I went through Oregon which is good timing with Tim's video. As long as I don't have it in 4 wheel on the pavement I should be good until the front diff goes in.

 

[kolelt]

It doesn't sound like bearings, it is a hum which sounds like gears not meshing properly which would be from a loose bearing? I think if the bearings were making the noise I would have had problems by now since I have done 10,000 km with this noise. But maybe I am wrong. It only has to last another 3000 km, if I wreck it I don't care since I'm putting another one on and this one is open diffs so not worth much anyways.

Not necessarily. Gears will be fine. In perfect condition. Mine were. And I drove a long time with a bad bearing. It would increase with speed. Most likely the bearing surface and the race cup(s) are shot.

Have you done any water crossings ? Is your breather extended ?

When you install a new diff. If it's with a elocker. Extend the axle housing breather. And extend the elocker housing breather. Yes. There is a small tiny tube from the elocker motor. That is a breather. Run it exactly next to axle breather. I ran both to my gas cap area. I couldn't find a breather end for the elocker housing. So it's just simply chilling in the gas cap area in a U form facing down. So no water will ever drip inside.

 

[Mark_BC]

Not necessarily. Gears will be fine. In perfect condition. Mine were. And I drove a long time with a bad bearing. It would increase with speed. Most likely the bearing surface and the race cup(s) are shot.

Have you done any water crossings ? Is your breather extended ?

When you install a new diff. If it's with a elocker. Extend the axle housing breather. And extend the elocker housing breather. Yes. There is a small tiny tube from the elocker motor. That is a breather. Run it exactly next to axle breather. I ran both to my gas cap area. I couldn't find a breather end for the elocker housing. So it's just simply chilling in the gas cap area in a U form facing down. So no water will ever drip inside.

Haven't done any water crossing but the PO may have. But the fluid looked good when I changed it lat month. Yes I'll run both breathers up high.

 

[Mark_BC]

So I took it to the transmission shop today and he had a listen and said it was definitely the third member and it doesn't sound good. He said they make noise and are fine until they aren't and if the bearing explodes that's it.

He won't be able to fix it though next week. He referred me to a rear end specialist who has the parts in stock and quoted me $1200 for the two bearings (pinion and carrier) and replacement of small internal parts. That would be next Wednesday. They won't swap in the "new" axle I have which I was planning on putting in anyways at a later date.

I called our trusted local repair shop and he could slot me in next Thursday to swap axles for me. I just don't have time to do it myself. He'll get back to me on price.

So the issue is, I can swap in this whole new e-locker axle hoping that it doesn't have any issues. It looks OK but I'll look better this evening. It was in a front end collision so probably OK. But if it does have problems, I will find this out Thursday evening and I'm leaving on Saturday!

Otherwise it's $1200 to fix the existing one! Or else risk 3000 km on a 3rd member that the shop says sounds bad!!!! 4runner excitement sure makes life interesting!!!