Right up front, huge Toyota fan. An observation of individually collected experience only. Not a value judgement. Looking for members input and suggestions on sifting through my experience. Thanks guys.
Like many of you, I've driven vehicles from various manufactures. Also like many of you, I'm often the main contact person for aging parents and lazy siblings who have problems with their vehicles. I've lived in a few different places during my life while owning various brands and have experienced a number of dealership service departments. Based on my experience, 2 things hold true: German manufacture's dealer's service departments provide a generally positive service experience. American manufacture's dealer's service department are generally positive but maybe the least technically talented. Toyota manufacture's dealer's service departments are a nightmare.
Quick few examples. Various dealers involved here, not just one shop.
1. 2012 Camry bought brand new for my in-laws. 4k miles on odo. Front drivers side plastic wheel lining coming undone. Dealer claims the car has been in an accident... :suspicious: Wanted hundreds of dollars. Refused to cover. Fixed myself with small plastic piece.
2. 2006 (I think) Sequoia purchased new. Headliner falling down after 12 months. Dealer said it was our fault.... :suspicious: Eventually fixed it under warranty. Took 3 weeks of arguing. They begrudgingly did it then stole the rubber cargo liner in the back and denied doing so.
3. Same Sequoia at 18 months: Air suspension stopped working. Dealer agreed to fix it. Couldn't fix it. Then said it was our fault. Ended up having to take to an old contact of mine at lexus. 2hr drive one way. Took a week. They fixed it, under warranty. Not entirely sure how all that worked out, but it did.
4. 2005 4runner: AC went out at 35mths. Took 4 days to fix it. Went out again at 36mths. Was a few days out of warranty. Claimed they would not warranty it. Explained to them they didn't fix it the first time. Disagreed with me, somehow. Took another week of arguing before I finally took it to a independent mechanic. A day later dealer calls and said they would do it. Had them write me a check to cover the independent mechanic cost instead.
In all of these, except the wheel liner issue, they were eventually resolved but only after much time and energy was wasted attempting to get them to honor their contract. I've had a few more minor issues like not wanting to cover the free oil changes they offered when purchasing the 4runner, even though it was in the contract. They told me to get the contract, that they weren't going to look it up. :suspicious: Whenever I'm needed to interact with toyota dealers, it feels as if I need to suit up my armor and put my game face on. Exhausting and unnecessary, imo. I've heard other stories from friends and online in a similar vein regarding toyota service departments. Now, every manufacture dealer's service department has stories, but I've noticed a pattern with toyota from various years, models, and dealerships (in various states) that I haven't noticed in other manufactures.
In my experience with Ford, Chevy, and Chrysler/Jeep I've noticed a general agreeability to cover warranty issues, however the quality of work (especially chevy) is often suspect. This is also frustrating but somehow less so than my experience with Toyota.
In my experience with German manufacture's such as BMW, VW, and Mercedes, I've experienced an incredible level of service to include fixing issues under warranty with no fuss, high quality of work, and even going above and beyond such as providing loaner or rental cars without me asking. My wife owned a BMW during hurricane Ivan while we were living in Mobile, AL. A real person from BMW Corporate called her and asked if we were ok. Also told her we could suspend making payments for 3months if we needed. We were shocked to say the least. She wasn't driving a $100k car. She had a base model 325i at the time. We were beyond impressed.
Now, to make sure people understand this isn't a *****ing thread: Is this accurate based on other's experience? If so, why is this? Does toyota corporate put less pressure or have lower expectations on their dealers regarding customer satisfaction? The one time I brought up calling Chevy corporate to a service adviser, he quickly changed his tune and fixed an obvious warranty issue he was dancing around. The times I've mentioned contacting Toyota corporate to various toyota dealerships, they simply shrug their shoulders and chuckle.
It's no question toyota has an unmatched history of making incredibly high quality products. No one can ever argue that. However, it seems as though they might be resting on their laurels of late, and because of that either their quality has slipped, the rest of the market is catching up, or both. Toyota's reluctance to issue a recall on something as serious as the fender tearing issue in the FJ is what first alarmed to a possible trend. I've also read a few places (and am looking to confirm or disprove this rumor) that toyota is not providing rust protecting coating on their underbodies while the rest of the manufactures are.
Of course, Toyota has been in the news for other issues as well. The unintentional acceleration drama is a tough one to figure out. Part of what I saw absolutely smacked of a media hit job. However, my mother had a Lexus LS400 that absolutely would attempt to accelerate without any gas pedal input. My mother complained about it for weeks. We ignored her. She came home crying one day about a near accident, and my father called and asked me to take it to lexus for her (2hrs away). It was fine the entire way down until I was stopped and waiting to make a left hand turn into the dealership. My foot was on the brake, turn signal on, waiting on my chance when the car suddenly bogged down with the tach climbing and started inching forward. My first response was to put both feet on the brakes and stand on it, literally out of my seat standing. It took about 3 seconds for me move on to the next step of shifting it into neutral. I did that and the tach redlined with the engine screaming. I then turned the ignition off. All of this happened within seconds and I should have responded to it more effectively, but I was much younger at the time and panicked. Lexus took the car in and 3 days later called us back saying someone was attempting to move the vehicle when it did it again and ran into the wall of their dealership. Small collision, apparently the driver was very close to the wall to begin with. They lemoned the vehicle immediately and gave my mother a new model year LS400. Toyota corporate called my parents and interviewed them about the issue. All of this happened many years before the words "unintended acceleration" were ever spoken by the media. So while I think the media sensationalized things, as is their MO, my personal experience and sample size of 1, leads me to believe there might have been at least a little something to that whole thing. Smoke and fire, if you will.
I continue to patronize Toyota when their product meets a need. I just did the deal on leasing my in laws a 2012 Camry and 2012 Tacoma for their company. I could have chosen any vehicle in those classes. I picked Toyota because I think they lead the class in those areas. I joined this site a while ago wanting to learn more about the 4runner. In meeting that objective, I want to thank all the members for their input and information. I'm looking for honest evaluation and feedback with no drama here so I just want to again make clear, I'm a huge Toyota fan and am still very much after a 4runner for myself.
Thoughts, replies, theories?
Like many of you, I've driven vehicles from various manufactures. Also like many of you, I'm often the main contact person for aging parents and lazy siblings who have problems with their vehicles. I've lived in a few different places during my life while owning various brands and have experienced a number of dealership service departments. Based on my experience, 2 things hold true: German manufacture's dealer's service departments provide a generally positive service experience. American manufacture's dealer's service department are generally positive but maybe the least technically talented. Toyota manufacture's dealer's service departments are a nightmare.
Quick few examples. Various dealers involved here, not just one shop.
1. 2012 Camry bought brand new for my in-laws. 4k miles on odo. Front drivers side plastic wheel lining coming undone. Dealer claims the car has been in an accident... :suspicious: Wanted hundreds of dollars. Refused to cover. Fixed myself with small plastic piece.
2. 2006 (I think) Sequoia purchased new. Headliner falling down after 12 months. Dealer said it was our fault.... :suspicious: Eventually fixed it under warranty. Took 3 weeks of arguing. They begrudgingly did it then stole the rubber cargo liner in the back and denied doing so.
3. Same Sequoia at 18 months: Air suspension stopped working. Dealer agreed to fix it. Couldn't fix it. Then said it was our fault. Ended up having to take to an old contact of mine at lexus. 2hr drive one way. Took a week. They fixed it, under warranty. Not entirely sure how all that worked out, but it did.
4. 2005 4runner: AC went out at 35mths. Took 4 days to fix it. Went out again at 36mths. Was a few days out of warranty. Claimed they would not warranty it. Explained to them they didn't fix it the first time. Disagreed with me, somehow. Took another week of arguing before I finally took it to a independent mechanic. A day later dealer calls and said they would do it. Had them write me a check to cover the independent mechanic cost instead.
In all of these, except the wheel liner issue, they were eventually resolved but only after much time and energy was wasted attempting to get them to honor their contract. I've had a few more minor issues like not wanting to cover the free oil changes they offered when purchasing the 4runner, even though it was in the contract. They told me to get the contract, that they weren't going to look it up. :suspicious: Whenever I'm needed to interact with toyota dealers, it feels as if I need to suit up my armor and put my game face on. Exhausting and unnecessary, imo. I've heard other stories from friends and online in a similar vein regarding toyota service departments. Now, every manufacture dealer's service department has stories, but I've noticed a pattern with toyota from various years, models, and dealerships (in various states) that I haven't noticed in other manufactures.
In my experience with Ford, Chevy, and Chrysler/Jeep I've noticed a general agreeability to cover warranty issues, however the quality of work (especially chevy) is often suspect. This is also frustrating but somehow less so than my experience with Toyota.
In my experience with German manufacture's such as BMW, VW, and Mercedes, I've experienced an incredible level of service to include fixing issues under warranty with no fuss, high quality of work, and even going above and beyond such as providing loaner or rental cars without me asking. My wife owned a BMW during hurricane Ivan while we were living in Mobile, AL. A real person from BMW Corporate called her and asked if we were ok. Also told her we could suspend making payments for 3months if we needed. We were shocked to say the least. She wasn't driving a $100k car. She had a base model 325i at the time. We were beyond impressed.
Now, to make sure people understand this isn't a *****ing thread: Is this accurate based on other's experience? If so, why is this? Does toyota corporate put less pressure or have lower expectations on their dealers regarding customer satisfaction? The one time I brought up calling Chevy corporate to a service adviser, he quickly changed his tune and fixed an obvious warranty issue he was dancing around. The times I've mentioned contacting Toyota corporate to various toyota dealerships, they simply shrug their shoulders and chuckle.
It's no question toyota has an unmatched history of making incredibly high quality products. No one can ever argue that. However, it seems as though they might be resting on their laurels of late, and because of that either their quality has slipped, the rest of the market is catching up, or both. Toyota's reluctance to issue a recall on something as serious as the fender tearing issue in the FJ is what first alarmed to a possible trend. I've also read a few places (and am looking to confirm or disprove this rumor) that toyota is not providing rust protecting coating on their underbodies while the rest of the manufactures are.
Of course, Toyota has been in the news for other issues as well. The unintentional acceleration drama is a tough one to figure out. Part of what I saw absolutely smacked of a media hit job. However, my mother had a Lexus LS400 that absolutely would attempt to accelerate without any gas pedal input. My mother complained about it for weeks. We ignored her. She came home crying one day about a near accident, and my father called and asked me to take it to lexus for her (2hrs away). It was fine the entire way down until I was stopped and waiting to make a left hand turn into the dealership. My foot was on the brake, turn signal on, waiting on my chance when the car suddenly bogged down with the tach climbing and started inching forward. My first response was to put both feet on the brakes and stand on it, literally out of my seat standing. It took about 3 seconds for me move on to the next step of shifting it into neutral. I did that and the tach redlined with the engine screaming. I then turned the ignition off. All of this happened within seconds and I should have responded to it more effectively, but I was much younger at the time and panicked. Lexus took the car in and 3 days later called us back saying someone was attempting to move the vehicle when it did it again and ran into the wall of their dealership. Small collision, apparently the driver was very close to the wall to begin with. They lemoned the vehicle immediately and gave my mother a new model year LS400. Toyota corporate called my parents and interviewed them about the issue. All of this happened many years before the words "unintended acceleration" were ever spoken by the media. So while I think the media sensationalized things, as is their MO, my personal experience and sample size of 1, leads me to believe there might have been at least a little something to that whole thing. Smoke and fire, if you will.
I continue to patronize Toyota when their product meets a need. I just did the deal on leasing my in laws a 2012 Camry and 2012 Tacoma for their company. I could have chosen any vehicle in those classes. I picked Toyota because I think they lead the class in those areas. I joined this site a while ago wanting to learn more about the 4runner. In meeting that objective, I want to thank all the members for their input and information. I'm looking for honest evaluation and feedback with no drama here so I just want to again make clear, I'm a huge Toyota fan and am still very much after a 4runner for myself.
Thoughts, replies, theories?
:crazy:.
