Leveling for bumper and winch

[Jeff614]

Ok so I thought I should stop hijacking the official thread for the SSS slimline bumper with my questions. I've done a search but can't find much specific to this situation.

I'm one of guys on the group buy list for the SSS slimline bumper. '14 base TE is completely stock. Bumper/winch combo was not originally the first mod I wanted to make but then group buy came along and I wanted to take advantage.

I'm guessing the total weight hanging off my front end between the bumper + winch w/wire rope will be between 150-200 lbs. With the already prevalent nose dive I know I'm gonna have to address the front suspension.

I know Bilsteins would be the preferred method and I've planned to add them in the future all along however, adding close to another $400 for shocks right now would be over stretching my budget. I'd hate to have leave the bumper sitting in the garage till I can afford shocks so I've started to think of spacers.

Would say the Toytec 2" or 2.5" front coil spacers be enough to help the front end sag? I realize they probably won't fix the nosedive very well, if at all, but I can live that for now. Will also be keeping the stock tires for the immediate future so now concern about fitting anything larger. Any thoughts?

Thanks I'm advance,
- Jeff

 

[Ducmonsta]

If you haven't found a winch yet, use the money for your Bilsteins or other suspension set up. You'll get more pros out of the suspension (nose dive, weight capacity, handling, etc.) than you will for the use of a winch.

 

[Jeff614]

If you haven't found a winch yet, use the money for your Bilsteins or other suspension set up. You'll get more pros out of the suspension (nose dive, weight capacity, handling, etc.) than you will for the use of a winch.

I know, and that probably is the most logical thing to do. Guess the decision maker would be how involved the bumper install is. Hate to take it off later to drop in the winch.

Thought about maybe compromising on the winch but even though I won't be using it as often as I did with my jeep I know the value of owning a quality winch that'll work when really needed.

Just trying to think of a way to make everything work together right off the bat. I did see at least one other forum member using only the front Bilsteins...

Thanks Bobby!
- Jeff

 

[jrandom]

Things didn't work out exactly as I had planned and ended up spend more money now than I wanted too. I was going to spend it eventually just not now. I was hoping to jump on a November black Friday deal for my suspension. Anyway...

I got a bunch of great deals (ie saved almost $1000 total) on hidden winch mount, a superwinch, 31m battery, OBA, lights, ect.

Fast forward, I got it all installed and LOL my rake had more than doubled! My wheels were full blown negative camber! Front end sag was horrible. I was pretty much forced into upgrading my coil-overs.

That said hunt for suspension deals now!

 

[yarden]

If you can afford it, going with adjustable coilovers in the front will be your best bet. When you add a winch to the front you can level it back out. ICON's have been one of the best investments I have made in the truck.

It may seem expensive, but there is something in doing it right the first time around. Hope that helps.

I had 5100's with stock coils and left the bilsteins on for the first few weeks after my install, then it settled and sag was really noticeable and ride/handling really started to suck. Granted my bumper is heavier than yours...

 

[Jeff614]

Thanks to you both for your advice and experience. I really appreciate it. I don't regret getting the new bumper but the more thought I'm giving it, I have put the cart before the horse so to speak. Don't get me wrong I love the bumper and feel the group buy was a great deal, just didn't give enough thought to making everything work together correctly. I've been down the same road on other vehicles, once you start modding one part, another area needs attention, and around it goes.

I'd love coilovers but financially those are out. Work is slow once summer winds down and with the holidays and what not on the horizon unfortunately Id have to wait till next summer and since I'm not quite sure I intend to lift it anyways that might be overkill.

Disappointing to hear the Bilsteins alone wouldn't be enough, but I'm assuming the real culprit of the nosedive problem and sag I'd have with the bumper/winch is the stock springs? Hence spacers being not being the answer.

Could changing out the front coils be a possibility? OME perhaps? Would shocks be a perquisite with new coils? I don't have any immediate plans on doing a full on lift. Ideally I'd like to do whatever it will take to have a level rig with the bumper and winch installed and not have the nose plummet every time I hit the brakes.

thanks guys!
- Jeff

 

[Titanpat57]

As stated an adjustable coilover, and probably UCA'S too..

I realize how quick this stuff adds up....but its hard to bypass certain steps. Your suspension upgrade will be the single best investment in your truck you can make....that and better tires other than stock.

Also(while completely blowing the budget, make you you get synthetic line...much lighter than steel ( need to save some poundage for the future dual battery install)

The 9000 Engo w/ synthetic line can be had around $400 or so...great winch



Bet the farm on the Steelers!!!:amen:

 

[Jeff614]

Bet the farm on the Steelers!!!:amen:

Whew! Finally, knew I there had to be more than 'bird fans around here :thumb:

Ive heard good things about the ENGO as well. Synthetic line was high on my list but was starting to think I'd have to compromise between an m8000 with wire rope or lesser winch with synthetic. Will have to do some more research on the ENGO.

I hear ya on the importance of the suspension, Ive had good suspensions on past vehicles and basic leveling kits on others and there's a night and day difference. In hindsight I should have done a little more research, too used to 3/4 ton diesels I guess.

As far as coilovers and UCA's go, is the difference that noticeable as opposed to new coils and shocks? Like say the OME lift? In all honesty my plans are limited to this bumper/winch combo, elimination of the nose dive (through what I had hope was just some Bilsteins), and more aggressive stock size tires. My days of having High-Tech replacing my blown up rear axle are over (lol) and would be happy with a vehicle a little more capable than stock that can keep up with you all at the cove when I finally make it out there.

Thanks again all,
- Jeff

 

[jrandom]

Group buys rock! Just cause you bought it doesn't mean you have to install it right away no matter how difficult it is to see it sitting there.

I think you could easily get away with bilsteins and something like toytecs adjustable coil over upgrade, IIRC they are 600# springs and it gives you threaded adjustability for a really reasonable price. You wouldn't need to upgrade your UCA's as you could adjust your ride height less than needing them. They are 1" to 3" inches and that is at stock weight. So set at 1" with winch and bumper I would guess to say you are looking at a nice clean level.

 

[Jeff614]

Group buys rock! Just cause you bought it doesn't mean you have to install it right away no matter how difficult it is to see it sitting there.

I think you could easily get away with bilsteins and something like toytecs adjustable coil over upgrade, IIRC they are 600# springs and it gives you threaded adjustability for a really reasonable price. You wouldn't need to upgrade your UCA's as you could adjust your ride height less than needing them. They are 1" to 3" inches and that is at stock weight. So set at 1" with winch and bumper I would guess to say you are looking at a nice clean level.

I was doing some more browsing last night and those took a good long look at those. The Toytec/Bilstein coilovers specifically. Right around $600 from Toytec. I could probably make those work with my budget assuming the install isn't too costly, would vastly prefer doing it myself to save. Would I be looking at any other components to make those work? I know no UCA's and figure on an alignment but just wondering what else I should be looking/budgeting for. My poor Colt 6920 is headed for a new home so I should be able to swing everything at once.

Thanks again guys!
- Jeff

 

[jrandom]

If you have some mechanical sense and general tools (floor jack, jack stands, ect.) it is quite an easy project to do yourself. Depending on the kit you get, I even saw a technique that let's you remove the factory coilover spring while you disassemble (spring removal is the most dangerous part, you can remove the whole CO and take it to a shop and have them swap it out, as well), or you can get the kit with the a crown/spring already installed and not worry about it.

There is nice a write-up for trucks with KDSS by [MENTION=85512]eddiebx[/MENTION] (How To: Lift Installation (on KDSS equipped vehicles))
, it refers to a few other co install threads by [MENTION=65614]Antman[/MENTION] and [MENTION=48991]sp8ball[/MENTION]. Meaning there is a wealth of tips to help you get it done if needed.

It is recommend that you get an alignment or at the least get it checked.

 

[Jeff614]

I think I could probably handle the coilovers then of course get an alignment. Now it's time to read up on ya'lls build thread for everyone's experiences.

Ironically I couldn't find anything on installing spacers, kinda took that as a sign haha.

Once again I appreciate the advice and comments. I know lift threads are a dime a dozen but if anyone has more opinions on suspension mods for weight carrying as opposed to lift please keep'em coming!

- Jeff

 

[yarden]

Lifetime alignment from Firestone ($150) is well worth it if you can find the right shop in your area. Some aren't the best, but I was fortunate in finding a good one and the alignment tech loves my truck.

Every where else I got a quote was close to that anyway and that was just for one alignment!!

..and just to confirm, you are right... the coils are the issue, not the bilsteins.

To answer your question on ride difference, I was/am a diehard OME fan on my Land Rovers and thought about going that route on on 4Runner. Glad I went with the ICON's though... night and day. The truck is tight but rides smooth and handles great on road and off.

With OME I always knew I had an offroad suspension 100% of the time if you know what I mean... with the ICON's, offroad AND onroad is a dream. My guess is any of the major coilovers are going to be a similar experience for you so buy with confidence. They are all proven.

 

[Jeff614]

Thanks for the tip about Firestone's lifetime alignment offer. I'll def. keep an eye out for that.

So after all the replies and facing down the truth that the stock front coils just plain suck, I'm going to be looking towards coilovers. Winch/bumper aside I'd very much like to fix the way the front end rides. After putting 13k miles on the truck since last March when I bought it, the front end brake dive is really bothering me. I can't even imagine what it would be like with 150+ lbs. hanging off the front.

Yarden, I'd agree about the ride of OME's. You seem far more familiar with them from your LR's, but I've spent a significant amount of time in a JK with an OME lift and it rode like my old YJ. On the other hand I've had Bilstein 5100's on 2 3/4 ton diesels and they made a huge difference and were worth every penny.

While not a decision I want to make lightly, selling another toy should make coilovers a possibility now. While browsing some of the options out there the Fox 2.0's and Toytec/Bilsteins both seem popular and are the same price. Any thoughts? Keeping in mind my goal is a better ride and front end that can support the extra weight. No plans to go up in tire size or touch the back end.

Thanks again!
- Jeff

 

[jrandom]

The gist of it is the Fox are rebuildable and you just replace the Bilsteins. You can upgrade some Fox shocks too, say if later you wanted reservoirs and/or compression adjusters. I don't know enough about their line to recommend any other than the ones I have. Whatever way you choose to go, I would recommend actually talking to someone over the phone. If you do call, I chose Toytec as well, specifically because Toyota is all they do , ask for Kevin, he was super helpful for me.

 

[yarden]

5100's, when I was running them on a stock truck, definitely made a world of difference, totally agree. I think what jrandom said is the best advice from all the info we have on your needs... buy with confidence!

 

[Jeff614]

Thanks for the comparison between Toytecs and Fox's. From the reading I've done the Toytec's are probably what I'll go with and what will suit my needs best.

I really appreciate everyone's responses, advice, and experiences. This forum is great and I feel like at least now I have some real world knowledge to go by and know what products work best (I.e. Coilovers vs springs vs spacers)

That being said I'm always open to more advice but I think my next step is to get on the phone to the actual vendors themselves and then go from there.

Once again thanks to all of you for your replies! I will report back with what I end up with. Neverrrr did I intend to be adding coilovers, much less this soon, but I hate doing things half-assed and this will kill 2 birds with one stone, the porpoising and ability to add my winch/bumper.

- Jeff