Lexus RX330 vs 03+ 4Runner (my opinion)

[Guest]

Well I've been given an RX330 as a loaner car at the Lexus dealer a couple of times since it has come out, and here's my opinion:

These two vehicles are disimilar in more ways than they are similar.

There is no mistaking that the RX330 is a car, and no mistaking that the 4Runner is a truck. The difference in ride is night and day. You'll feel bumps in the road 5 times more in the 4Runner on road, but then again off-road the 4Runner does not feel strained at all, the RX330 seems to barely tolerate even slightly rough gravel roads, but less real off road conditions.

The interior on the RX330 is nicer. Definitely less adept to abuse, but if it's just for taking the kids to soccer practice, going to work, or going to the grocery store, there's no mistaking which one is from the luxury marque. The leather is much softer and more supple in the RX, the overall feel things is of higher quality, and it's definitely quieter inside. Still, it feels like a car interior to an extent, and feels closer to a Camry on steroids than it does to any SUVs on the market.

The powertrain: here's where I feel the 4Runner has a huge advantage. The i-Force V8 is so much more pleasurable to drive it's not even funny. The 3.3L V6 feels more like it belongs in a 20k dollar family car than a 35k dollar luxury SUV, and the transmission shifts way too soft and sloppy. It gets frustrating and always feels like it's a battle to get the RX330 to upshift/downshift the way you wish it would. The i-Force V8 has quite a bit more torque down low, so it doesn't have to be revved nearly as high, even with the 4Runner's extra weight. It's also considerably quieter and smoother than the 3.3L V6, and the transmission is worlds better. It reminds me of the transmission on my GS400 as opposed to the frustrating transmission in the RX/ES cars.

Handling: the RX can definitely take a corner faster than the 4Runner no matter what options the 4Runner is equipped with. But I still prefer the feel of the 4Runner steering. It just feels more substantial and precise. The RX feels very overboosted. You could turn the steeeringwheel with one finger during an emergency manuver with no sweat, and although it is just a preference, I don't like this.

Then there's all of the obvious differences like difference in construction like body on frame vs unibody, storage capacity, etc, but that's all sort of reflected in the above.

Feel free to add your own observations if you've driven both.

 

[Thai]

Your impression is right on with the purpose of the RX330...it's a cushy high quality Camry on heels. What does surprise me a little from your review is the "sloppy" behavior of the Rx's tranny. I think that the earlier Es300's tranny had issues with jerky & sloppy shifting, but i thought that Lexus fixed that already. Similar to your impression, i have heard that the Rx330's engine is kinda loud and thrashy for a modern V6 DOHC engine. I need to testdrive the RX one of these days.

BTW, after a few days, i am gonna move this thread over to COMPARISONS.

 

[Guest]

Your impression is right on with the purpose of the RX330...it's a cushy high quality Camry on heels. What does surprise me a little from your review is the "sloppy" behavior of the Rx's tranny. I think that the earlier Es300's tranny had issues with jerky & sloppy shifting, but i thought that Lexus fixed that already. Similar to your impression, i have heard that the Rx330's engine is kinda loud and thrashy for a modern V6 DOHC engine. I need to testdrive the RX one of these days.

BTW, after a few days, i am gonna move this thread over to COMPARISONS.

I've driven the 02+ ES300 and the 04 ES330 (I'm driving one today actually as my GS4 is getting the trans fluid changed). What's weird is that the RX300, ES300, and ES330 all seem to me to have about the same amount of engine noise. It's only the RX330 that is noticably louder and 'granier' sounding. So it's not the 3.3L V6 itself, or else the ES330 would have noticably louder engine noise than the ES300 (and it's not at all IMO). Maybe something with the RX's exhaust. Heck, maybe they did it that way on purpose. Judging by the RX's exterior styling, it looks sportier to me than the ES (ignoring the fact that it's an SUV). So maybe they tried to make the RX's exhaust note sportier?

About the transmission: The ES300s and RX300s all had terribly sloppy transmissions. Like to the point that even if I loved everything else about the car, I would flat-out not buy them for that reason. They felt like they were filled with mayonaise, and even had a hesitation off the line. The new RX330's transmission seemed better for sure, but still not up to par. The ES330 that I'm driving today is a late 2004 (only has 2200 miles on it), and the tranmission shifts absolutely great. Very quick positive feeling shifts, good shift logic, and not a hint of hesitation. So maybe they just recently fixed it for all of their FWD V6 platform cars, or maybe they've only fixed it completely for the ES330 but not entirely for the RX330. Or lastly maybe I just got unlucky with the RX330 I drove and maybe it wasn't driving as most of the rest of them did? I mean it wasn't bad, but not what I'd consider acceptable at all and nothing like the ES330 I have today.

 

[Mike552]

I've also had the chance to drive an RX330.
Your description of the "sloppy" transmission is bang on. I find this feeling in many front wheel drive vehicles; it's alomost as you're waking it up from a deep slumber eveytime you press the gas pedal... following your request with lazyness and un-enthusiasm. Maybe it's due to the drive-by-wire? (If so equipped.) On the other hand, my '04 SR5 V6 4Runner shifts precisely, with authority. It shifts not unlike more expensive german examples like MB and BMW. Of course, it's missing the interior amenities, but that's not what I bought it for.

With my other car being a G35 Coupe, I can tell you that I'm extremely satisfied with the 4Runner's on-road manners. The steering is quick and responsive, like that of a Mercedes car(not the ML's though.. way too sloppy). It does lack stability when cornering at higher speeds, but this is largely due to the higher center of gravity. I'd bet it would be much more stable when cornering with wheels that have a lower millimetric offset and with a bigger diameter (20's?) and no more than 4" of tire sidewall height. The smaller offset would bring the wheels out slightly, changing the overall center of gravity increasing it's cornering stability.

 

[Mark86]

I also had the opportunity to drive a 2004 Lexus RX330. When I was looking for a car last year, the RX330 was number two on my list (they were just released and looked impressive). When I got in it and took it for a drive, I was VERY disappointed. There was absolutely no acceleration and it handled like a car. I wanted to push that thing up the hill. The dealer told me it had to break in. The luxury aspect of that car cannot be beat though. I did not want a luxury car though. I wanted an SUV. When I went in the 4Runner, I was immediately sold. It is not the nicest interior I have been in, but it drives amazing.

Since we are talking about loaner car/luxury SUV's, I had a chance to drive my mom's X3 loaner this past week. It drove nothing like a BMW. If anyone thought you felt every bump in the 4Runner, take the X3 for a spin. It made 100x the noise of the RX330 and it was very slow. The ride was very rough and bumpy. I pulled it next to my 4Runner and it was like a Mini Cooper. I had to take pictures of it next to my 4Runner. If anyone wants to see the pictures, I will post them!!

 

[Thai]

If anyone wants to see the pictures, I will post them!!

:worthless

Please post pic for our amusement....

 

[Mark86]

Here is the first one:

 

[Mark86]

This one shows the length difference. They were lined up evenly from the front!

 

[Guest]

I've driven a 40k mile BMW X5 a few times and you could tell it was related to the BMW 5-series, but it definitely road extremely rough/bumpy for a car-based SUV. Then again the BMW 5-series sedan rides on the rough side too... but still not nearly this rough.

It also had quite a few rattles, the doors were very loud when shutting them, the leather was very stiff feeling (for a luxury car), the stereo controls were near impossible to figure out (and I'm a stereo junkie!), and there were already several small things going wrong with it (tail light, rear hatch sensor, etc)

The motor and transmission were definitely very nice though in terms of just flat-out intelligent and positive shifting, and a good usable powerband.

 

[crmartin9]

I had the opportunity to drive my folks' RX330 for a long roadtrip from Tucson to Santa Fe and back last Christmas. I've also driven their old RX300. If you have complaints about the transmission on the RX330, you should have driven the 4 speed tranny on the RX300 on some mountain roads. The new 5 speed is a big improvement, though I agreed that I much prefer the torque and power on my 03 V6 4Runner.

The other big improvement on the RX330 over the RX300 is the turning radius. Trying to make a U-turn on the RX300 was suicidal unless you had a good 3-4 lanes. I always thought this was bizarre, since this is not a problem with the 4Runner, which is considerably larger. Fortunately, they fixed this in the RX330.

There certainly are more creature comforts and luxurious trim to the RX330, but the 4Runner is a much more practical car in terms of rear cargo space. I can pack up the back of the 4Runner with my bikes and race gear for a long weekend, but when I flew out with my bike to visit my folks it took some creative arranging to get my bike to fit into the back of the RX and still be able to seat a passenger in the rear. The biggest problem on the RX is the lack of vertical clearance in the back.

While there is no mistaking that the RX300/330 is based on a car platform with unibody construction, I do have to give it high marks for passenger safety in the event of an accident. I totalled the RX300 in a serious accident at 55 mph (which is why my folks now have a RX330) and my wife and I walked away without so much as a scratch. I don't think we would have been as lucky if I had had the same accident while driving my wife's Camry. Hopefully, I won't be repeating the same test on the 4Runner.

 

[Guest]

I had the opportunity to drive my folks' RX330 for a long roadtrip from Tucson to Santa Fe and back last Christmas. I've also driven their old RX300. If you have complaints about the transmission on the RX330, you should have driven the 4 speed tranny on the RX300 on some mountain roads. The new 5 speed is a big improvement, though I agreed that I much prefer the torque and power on my 03 V6 4Runner.

The other big improvement on the RX330 over the RX300 is the turning radius. Trying to make a U-turn on the RX300 was suicidal unless you had a good 3-4 lanes. I always thought this was bizarre, since this is not a problem with the 4Runner, which is considerably larger. Fortunately, they fixed this in the RX330.

There certainly are more creature comforts and luxurious trim to the RX330, but the 4Runner is a much more practical car in terms of rear cargo space. I can pack up the back of the 4Runner with my bikes and race gear for a long weekend, but when I flew out with my bike to visit my folks it took some creative arranging to get my bike to fit into the back of the RX and still be able to seat a passenger in the rear. The biggest problem on the RX is the lack of vertical clearance in the back.

While there is no mistaking that the RX300/330 is based on a car platform with unibody construction, I do have to give it high marks for passenger safety in the event of an accident. I totalled the RX300 in a serious accident at 55 mph (which is why my folks now have a RX330) and my wife and I walked away without so much as a scratch. I don't think we would have been as lucky if I had had the same accident while driving my wife's Camry. Hopefully, I won't be repeating the same test on the 4Runner.

Agreed. The RX300's transmission was even worse than the RX330s. Although the ES330 I had yesterday was better than any of them. Weird.

Also, what were your observations for road and engine noise between your 4Runner and the RX300/RX330? (ignoring ride quality... just on wind noise, tire droan, etc, while on the road)

 

[darktiger]

I have both a 04 4runner SE V8, and a Lexus RX330. I love both of the vehicles. I enjoy my 4runner more (more power I guess), but I really like my RX330. It gets great gas mileage and also it is a more comfortable ride. I think of my vehicles as Beauty and the Beast...

 

[darktiger]

Other than the power I love about my 4runner, I really really really love my shocks......XREAS rules!!!!!!!

 

[darktiger]

I also had the opportunity to drive a 2004 Lexus RX330. When I was looking for a car last year, the RX330 was number two on my list (they were just released and looked impressive). When I got in it and took it for a drive, I was VERY disappointed. There was absolutely no acceleration and it handled like a car. I wanted to push that thing up the hill. The dealer told me it had to break in. The luxury aspect of that car cannot be beat though. I did not want a luxury car though. I wanted an SUV. When I went in the 4Runner, I was immediately sold. It is not the nicest interior I have been in, but it drives amazing.

Since we are talking about loaner car/luxury SUV's, I had a chance to drive my mom's X3 loaner this past week. It drove nothing like a BMW. If anyone thought you felt every bump in the 4Runner, take the X3 for a spin. It made 100x the noise of the RX330 and it was very slow. The ride was very rough and bumpy. I pulled it next to my 4Runner and it was like a Mini Cooper. I had to take pictures of it next to my 4Runner. If anyone wants to see the pictures, I will post them!!

I agree, I test drove the X3 many times and the only thing I like about it was the brakes, top notch.

 

[crmartin9]

Also, what were your observations for road and engine noise between your 4Runner and the RX300/RX330? (ignoring ride quality... just on wind noise, tire droan, etc, while on the road)

It's been six months since I last drove the RX330, so I don't really have a good answer for you. If I recall correctly, the cabin of the RX is quieter under most conditions thanks to the smaller engine and better interior materials and soundproofing. But I seem to recall the tire drone while cruising and noise when you hit a bump on the highway or go over rumble stripes or something, to be slightly louder in the RX due to the lower profile tires (differences in vehicle size and weight probably factors in here too).

As far as wind noise, I'm not the person to ask thanks to the bike racks I have on the roof of the 4Runner.

 

[crmartin9]

A couple more things...

The one bling-bling thing I really liked about the RX330 were those cool light-up door sills. I could do without the other extras like the rain sensing windshield wipers and power rear door (which I hated because it was really freakin' slow, made loud obnoxious beeps, and obstructed some of your view in the rear view mirror). But for some reason, I thought those door sills looked pretty sweet, particularly at night.

Anybody know if the 4Runner and RX330 share the same instrument cluster dimensions and design? They both have that three circle arrangement, except the RX has that light-up ring around it...

 

[Guest]

Re: A couple more things...

The one bling-bling thing I really liked about the RX330 were those cool light-up door sills. I could do without the other extras like the rain sensing windshield wipers and power rear door (which I hated because it was really freakin' slow, made loud obnoxious beeps, and obstructed some of your view in the rear view mirror). But for some reason, I thought those door sills looked pretty sweet, particularly at night.

Anybody know if the 4Runner and RX330 share the same instrument cluster dimensions and design? They both have that three circle arrangement, except the RX has that light-up ring around it...

No they are drastically different. The layout in both is a "tri pod" design, true. But past that, they are layed out differently, different dimensions and such. Plus the backlighting on the RX330 is all LED, as well as the needles. The 4Runner if I recall correctly doesn't use any LED back lighting, and only uses LED lighting on the speedometer needle on the limited model (maybe the other needles too, but I don't remember off the top of my head).

An instrument cluster with full LED backlight and needle lighting costs the manufacturer between 50 and 150 dollars more than just standard lighting, depending on the vehicle in question. That's HUGE in OEM cost terms. So that's why you only tend to see that sort of stuff on more expensive vehicles. Although it's slowly but surely becoming more and more common on 'lesser' cars, such as the new 03+ Accord has full LED lighting, and so does the civic! (although the civic isn't quite full if I recall correctly)

The optitron guages I have in my GS400 are actually technically LED backlighting, but it's distruted very differently so it doesn't look anything like the "sharp color on flat black" look that most other guages do.
http://www.threxx.com/car/DSC00523.JPG
I personally prefer full standard LED lighting over the optitron option I've got in my car. Optitron is very easy on the eyes, and very easy to read in any lighting condition, but it just doesn't "jump" out at you like LED does.

The Camry went to optitron for '05, so we might see similar changes to the 4Runner in the coming years. Who knows...

 

[Mark86]

I've driven a 40k mile BMW X5 a few times and you could tell it was related to the BMW 5-series, but it definitely road extremely rough/bumpy for a car-based SUV. Then again the BMW 5-series sedan rides on the rough side too... but still not nearly this rough.

It also had quite a few rattles, the doors were very loud when shutting them, the leather was very stiff feeling (for a luxury car), the stereo controls were near impossible to figure out (and I'm a stereo junkie!), and there were already several small things going wrong with it (tail light, rear hatch sensor, etc)

The motor and transmission were definitely very nice though in terms of just flat-out intelligent and positive shifting, and a good usable powerband.

My parents have 2 X5 4.4i's (2003 and 2004). I have driven them many times and I don't think it is not a good comparison to the 4Runner. The X5 drives a lot like a car on the road and there is not a lot of cabin noise. The materials in the BMW are also nicer (duh)!!! I personally like the ride in my 4Runner better because it feels more rugid and capable in the bad weather. I like the look better too. The other bad thing is out of 4 X5's my parents have owned, 3 have been total nightmares. One was actually lemoned out.

 

[tkr128]

The 4th-generation 4Runner uses LEDs in the instrument cluster.

I was going through the "Toyota University" file for the 2003 4Runner and here's what it says about the instrument cluster:

Combination Meter
1. Amber backlit illumination via high-efficiency white LEDs.
a. instant on,
b. reduces current consumption & heat,
c. reduce Lead from fewer soldered connections

I'd actually prefer the Optitron gauages, even the new Corolla XRS has them!

 

[Guest]

The 4Runner guages most definitely do not look like they use LEDs. Must not use very many of them or something. The needles are only LED on the limiteds, though... I do know that.