LIft question and FJ springs

[hrod79]

I have seen on this forum people talk about switching 4runner springs for FJ springs. What is it that is achieved by doing this. Reason I ask is I found a set of nearly new front CO with Bilstein shocks and rear springs with Bilstein shocks off of a Trail Teams FJ cruiser. It is pretty cheap and would be better set of shocks than the factory SR5 I am currently running. I was considering 5100's with stock springs but this might just be a better way to go.... if it will even work. Oh set comes with FJ UCA's which look the same as mine...
Thanks for any light shed on this...

 

[thebwlife]

By doing all this what is your objective? Lift, ride, looks?

I'd just save my money get the 5100's. You can go up to 2.5" front on them and either add a spacer or SAW springs in the rear. Still be under $600 for a much better suspension than a used FJ.

Also FJ springs wouldnt give lift on a 5th gen as our trucks are heavier than those. Factory UCAs are just throw away unless you have plans of pulling the ball joint and hanging on to for parts.

Don't settle for what you can have over what you want.

 

[TechControl]

I have seen on this forum people talk about switching 4runner springs for FJ springs. What is it that is achieved by doing this. Reason I ask is I found a set of nearly new front CO with Bilstein shocks and rear springs with Bilstein shocks off of a Trail Teams FJ cruiser. It is pretty cheap and would be better set of shocks than the factory SR5 I am currently running. I was considering 5100's with stock springs but this might just be a better way to go.... if it will even work. Oh set comes with FJ UCA's which look the same as mine...
Thanks for any light shed on this...

I did a ton of reading and researching on this forum and I still had questions and everybody was really helpful. Just my personal opinion, I would stay awar from used, who knows what it went through. You can either save for what you want or buy it piece by piece. I pieced my own suspension together and now have all the parts, ome coils front and back, 5100's front and back and aftermarket uca's. Now all i have to do is figure out what brank of tires i want to run at 285/70/17. That size was the reason for the aftermarket uca's. Once i figure out the tire i will have everything installed. What I ended up buying was probably overkill for me but I figured if I was going to do it I may as well do it right. Again, just my two cents. Good luck man.

 

[JB.]

I have seen on this forum people talk about switching 4runner springs for FJ springs. What is it that is achieved by doing this.

This is a fairly popular mod for 4th gens where a little bit of lift is gained through the longer springs. Your 5th gen would probably see no discernible change in height.

The shocks would be "better" and no doubt the FJ springs are a stiffer setup on that vehicle than the SR5 springs are on yours, but your 4runner is a heavier vehicle. How the spring stiffness would net out is uncertain.

 

[thebwlife]

"no doubt the FJ springs are a stiffer setup on that vehicle than the SR5 springs are on yours, but your 4runner is a heavier vehicle. How the spring stiffness would net out is uncertain.

It should be the same spring 5th gen to FJ - maybe different part numbers not sure, but rate and length should be so close you can't tell a difference.

That's part of the problem with the 5th gen. It weighs 500-700lbs more pending model and setup than the FJ - thus the springs are a bit soft from the factory.

 

[JB.]

Where are you getting this from?

Cause everything I've compiled says same springs.

It should be the same spring 5th gen to FJ - maybe different part numbers not sure, but rate and length should be so close you can't tell a difference.

That's part of the problem with the 5th gen. It weighs 500-700lbs more pending model and setup than the FJ - thus the springs are a bit soft from the factory.

I meant the FJ is a more stiffly sprung vehicle package than the SR5 regardless of whatever differences there may or may not be in the springs. So we agree on that.

I'm no expert on any differences between the springs. I'm a 4th gen owner who has had to do a lot of research lately due to being sold brand new 5th gen 4runner SR5 springs that were represented as FJ springs. I did quite a lot of legwork to reveal the "error". The color codes are certainly different, although what that might say about spring rate and length is anyone's guess. The FJ is virtually the same height, stock (tiny bit taller), so all else being equal, it would seem something is different in either length or stiffness. This page reports the FJ rears as being 14.88 inches. My new SR5 rear spring are 14.5 inches tall, measured carefully. Maybe the newer FJ springs are a different length than the old, who knows. Or maybe I can't assume that all else is equal, such as how the springs connect to the vehicle. Looking up all the springs on Partznet is interesting, but it creates as many questions as it answers. The SR5 rears cost more than the FJ or any other configuration of 4runner. Go figure.

I'd be interested in anything else you can tell me about this.

 

[thebwlife]

I meant the FJ is a more stiffly sprung vehicle package than the SR5 regardless of whatever differences there may or may not be in the springs. So we agree on that.

I'm no expert on any differences between the springs. I'm a 4th gen owner who has had to do a lot of research lately due to being sold brand new 5th gen 4runner SR5 springs that were represented as FJ springs. I did quite a lot of legwork to reveal the "error". The color codes are certainly different, although what that might say about spring rate and length is anyone's guess. The FJ is virtually the same height, stock (tiny bit taller), so all else being equal, it would seem something is different in either length or stiffness. This page reports the FJ rears as being 14.88 inches. My new SR5 rear spring are 14.5 inches tall, measured carefully. Maybe the newer FJ springs are a different length than the old, who knows. Or maybe I can't assume that all else is equal, such as how the springs connect to the vehicle. Looking up all the springs on Partznet is interesting, but it creates as many questions as it answers. The SR5 rears cost more than the FJ or any other configuration of 4runner. Go figure.

I'd be interested in anything else you can tell me about this.

First I tried to delete that post - was on my iPhone and figured out what you meant after hitting send. that why i wrote the second post.

I'd think that .38" is within the tolerance of A) any spring B) if its used it will have a bit of settling done to it. I'd bet those measurements of 14.88" are on a new spring and would expect a used spring to be 14.5". I do believe the spring perch on the 5th gen are different by about 1/2" higher. I get this based on 1-1/2" SAW springs measuring 2", and 2" toytec springs measuring 2.5".

 

[hrod79]

Thanks for the info. My intention is to get rid of the nose dive, If I can level the 4runner out that would be great also. I was hoping that FJ springs would be stiffer and not have the dive that the 4runner has. I have been looking at 5100 adjustable shocks however I wasn't sure if the FJ would get me that same result. They were of a FJ Team Trail with 5500 miles. I have 70K on my 4runner and assume if not time now, I am close to replacing shocks anyways. I just don't want to change out shocks and not springs and continue to have the dive. Also I am worried that springs will be getting close to needing replacement also. I don't have a problem spending the money for 5100's or even getting new springs, but at the same time my wife drives the 4Runner and I don't want to actually lift it to where she has a problem getting in and out of it. Me, i've had f350's with 6in lift and 35"s in the past and have no problem going big. I was even considering doing the OME spring and shock lift, but I think it will be too tall (2.5") with out going bigger with tires (I enjoy the 19-21MPG). After reading replies to my questions I am assuming that springs from FJ are same as 4runner only the extra weight on 4runner softens the ride on the 4runner. For now, only benefit would be new factory setup springs and better shocks front and rear. .... right?

 

[thebwlife]

For now, only benefit would be new factory setup springs and better shocks front and rear. .... right?

correct.

Your springs are not worn out yet unless your driving the crap out of it.

Get 5100 front and rear, then set the fronts at .85" (second notch). Should be a better ride than stock and help your nose dive problems.

 

[hrod79]

Your springs are not worn out yet unless your driving the crap out of it.

I actually drive easier than my wife does!!! avg MPG doesn't lie....

 

[JB.]

I'd think that .38" is within the tolerance of A) any spring B) if its used it will have a bit of settling done to it. I'd bet those measurements of 14.88" are on a new spring and would expect a used spring to be 14.5". I do believe the spring perch on the 5th gen are different by about 1/2" higher. I get this based on 1-1/2" SAW springs measuring 2", and 2" toytec springs measuring 2.5".

FWIW, the springs are brand new.

Anyway, you think I would achieve virtually the same thing with the 5th gen SR5 4x4 springs as with FJ 4x4 springs?

 

[Viper45]

This page reports the FJ rears as being 14.88 inches.

I've been trying to figure alot of this out too. In my searches I stumbled on the same link you have above, and The ARB Catalog is the only place where I've been able to see published spring rates for the 5th gen 4R. Reference Pg 122 > Spring # 2895 > OEM spring rate = 150#.

Even if we accept that the FJ coils are the same length as the 4R (and the spring rates above are accurate), 5th gens would get lift from using FJ coils, right? Unless the weight distribution on a (your) 4R is more than the FJ that it just balances out the extra 40#'s of spring weight, but I don't know the weight distribution for either vehicle and cannot find the information (for the 4R) published anywhere either.

 

[JB.]

I've been trying to figure alot of this out too. In my searches I stumbled on the same link you have above, and The ARB Catalog is the only place where I've been able to see published spring rates for the 5th gen 4R. Reference Pg 122 > Spring # 2895 > OEM spring rate = 150#.

Thanks for the reference, hadn't come across that.

Even if we accept that the FJ coils are the same length as the 4R (and the spring rates above are accurate), 5th gens would get lift from using FJ coils, right?

No, I don't see why, but ignore me. I'd point to what thebwlife has said. He seems to have the resume to know far more about this than anything I can offer.

 

[thebwlife]

FWIW, the springs are brand new.

Anyway, you think I would achieve virtually the same thing with the 5th gen SR5 4x4 springs as with FJ 4x4 springs?

Yes I do. Worse case senerio you add a 10mm trim spacer in the rear for $30 per/pair.

 

[thebwlife]

Even if we accept that the FJ coils are the same length as the 4R (and the spring rates above are accurate), 5th gens would get lift from using FJ coils, right? Unless the weight distribution on a (your) 4R is more than the FJ that it just balances out the extra 40#'s of spring weight, but I don't know the weight distribution for either vehicle and cannot find the information (for the 4R) published anywhere either.

No lift with fj coils. Guys you going to do 1-2 hours of labor for less than 0.5" of lift! Hold up 1/2" of paper and walk away 10' it's so minimal it's not worth messing with it. Especially if your buying something used.

Say you spent $100 on these "used" springs. Get a spacer set for $40 cut it down to 1". Spend $100 on a cornfed custom spacer. Spend $100 on air bags.

All of these other options are proven - no need to speculate. Making this way to hard.

Fronts are easy buy the 5100's and read the directions and choose what lift you want.

 

[JB.]

Yes I do. Worse case senerio you add a 10mm trim spacer in the rear for $30 per/pair.

Thank you.

Now, to prove that no good deed goes unpunished, I'm going to try to use you some more.

I took pics of five or six 2013 SR5 suspensions. In each case, the passenger side front coil had more wraps than the drivers side. This is the opposite of what I found on most other Toyotas when one side had more wraps. I don't understand the reason for more wraps in the first place since all by itself it would reduce spring rate, but I suppose, since I have SR5 coils, that it would make sense to install the coil with more wraps on the passenger side, eh?

 

[thebwlife]

Thank you.

Now, to prove that no good deed goes unpunished, I'm going to try to use you some more.

I took pics of five or six 2013 SR5 suspensions. In each case, the passenger side front coil had more wraps than the drivers side. This is the opposite of what I found on most other Toyotas when one side had more wraps. I don't understand the reason for more wraps in the first place since all by itself it would reduce spring rate, but I suppose, since I have SR5 coils, that it would make sense to install the coil with more wraps on the passenger side, eh?

I've never heard of that on any vehicle... Springs are typically not set for L-R...

 

[harper7]

Thank you.

Now, to prove that no good deed goes unpunished, I'm going to try to use you some more.

I took pics of five or six 2013 SR5 suspensions. In each case, the passenger side front coil had more wraps than the drivers side. This is the opposite of what I found on most other Toyotas when one side had more wraps. I don't understand the reason for more wraps in the first place since all by itself it would reduce spring rate, but I suppose, since I have SR5 coils, that it would make sense to install the coil with more wraps on the passenger side, eh?

On my stock Limited suspension the drivers side front spring has more coil wraps. The rears were also color coded by stripes and I assumed they try to match the coil with more spring pressure on the drivers side.The 5th gen factory spring part numbers are different for the LE's compared to the other models though .

I have a set of rear springs from an 08 FJ I bought awhile ago and they are about 1/2" taller then my stock 5th Gen rear springs just sitting side by side. I have no idea of the spring pressures however and never did put them on my truck . Still have them out in the shed out back.

 

[JB.]

I've never heard of that on any vehicle... Springs are typically not set for L-R...

Thanks again.

You can see a pic of what I'm talking about in this thread at the FJ forum if you're interested.

 

[eddiebx]

Thanks again.

You can see a pic of what I'm talking about in this thread at the FJ forum if you're interested.

I've seen what you are talking about before, if I had to guess...I think it might be to compensate for the drivers side lean from the factory? Throwing the stiffer one on the drivers side might help alleviate some of the unevenness I guess? Kind of like how OME tells you to put a trim spacer only on the drivers side on certain applications...