Lockers and SAS questions

Footofgod

New member
So I am get ready for my build on my 1991 V6. A Jeep friend of mine is going to help. He wants to do a SAS,but I am not sure. I figured I would just beef up the IFS.

Locker questions just to educate me.

With the IFS, do you only lock the rear? If so what type of locker do you reccomend?

With SAS, what type of locker do you reccomend?
 
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Locker recommendations are going to depend on whether this is a dedicated trail rig or daily driver. You can lock an IFS diff, lots of folks have without complaints. Others break CVs left and right. I suspect it comes down to the stresses put on the setup by individual drivers - tires, gears, and how bad they flog it.

I'm currently planning on a TrueTrac limited slip for the front of my '86, but it's a daily driver in a snowy climate, and I have an aversion to screwing with CV shafts. :)
 
Just my opinion, but... If you're goint to do the kind of wheeling where you need a locker, then do the SAS. You do stand a good chance of beraking CV shafts, but with the solid axle the front end will be much stronger.

Go to the offroading section and there's a good article on lockers. Also, there's a toyota bible on the pirate 4x4 forum in the toyota section that has some good reading on lockers and gearing.
 
The stupid things I do without lockers.

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So I am get ready for my build on my 1991 V6. A Jeep friend of mine is going to help. He wants to do a SAS,but I am not sure. I figured I would just beef up the IFS.

Locker questions just to educate me.

With the IFS, do you only lock the rear? If so what type of locker do you reccomend?

With SAS, what type of locker do you reccomend?

I missed if this was going to be a dedicated trail rig or not? Keep in mind that with a front locker, it becomes more difficult to steer. ie, it provides more resistance and you need to turn the streering wheel harder. Not the best for street driving, or turning in tight trails.

If you can; put in an ARB selectable in the front, regardless of IFS or Solid axle. Well with a SAS you can probably put in a toyota e-locker too. This will let you run open until you need it, and you can deactivate it to turn in the trail, and reengage when you're done your turn and if needed. Unless you are trying to ram your way through stuff you should be fine. I wonder if parts breaking is more a function of banging and jumping and hoping to get through or a locker on the IFS? A locker will give you more control, and you don't need to get a "running start..." But maybe i'm an offroading dweeb. My rule is try under my own power 1-2-3 times....then that's it. winch or pull up or out. I'm there to drive, not break down, or spend 40minutes trying to make it, or hold everyone else up.

For the rear it doesn't really matter I think. ARB would be Aw$ome, but could sit lower on the list. Mine is welded. But is not a street truck and only gets driven a few times a month. I only feel some resistance in a parking lot situation.

You can also try with only a rear locker of some type. Then put in a front one if your trails need it. The only trucks I've seen that broke diffs, have been open diffs....the wheel spins and goes in the air, when it comes down and finds traction, BANG.....broken diff. These weren't even old trucks that have done their time, these were all recent FJ Cruisers. 3 of them.


Locker recommendations are going to depend on whether this is a dedicated trail rig or daily driver. You can lock an IFS diff, lots of folks have without complaints. Others break CVs left and right. I suspect it comes down to the stresses put on the setup by individual drivers - tires, gears, and how bad they flog it.

I'm currently planning on a TrueTrac limited slip for the front of my '86, but it's a daily driver in a snowy climate, and I have an aversion to screwing with CV shafts. :)

I'm not familiar with the intricacies of the TrueTrac, once i got the ARB I flushed all the other info out, to make space for other stuff.... But I wouldn't want something that kicks in and out. I want it locked, or not. I don't want to have to have wheel slip for the lock to engage, or push the gas to have it engage, or disengage when I turn.

The way I understood it when I was looking into regearing and lockers, is that with the Toyota diff, even with the lunch box lockers or limited slips, you still need to pull the R&P out anyway. So the job becomes expensive if you don't do diffs yourself. ( anyways, according to the FAQ on eastcostgearsupply)

So I think most limited slips are not that much less expensive that an ARB, and you need a compressor anyway to inflate you tires....and you need to pull the R&P anyway.

Damn I write too much. :infidel:
 
My rule is try under my own power 1-2-3 times....then that's it. winch or pull up or out. I'm there to drive, not break down, or spend 40minutes trying to make it, or hold everyone else up.

Heck yes. I wish there were more of you on the trails.

I'm not familiar with the intricacies of the TrueTrac, once i got the ARB I flushed all the other info out, to make space for other stuff.... But I wouldn't want something that kicks in and out. I want it locked, or not. I don't want to have to have wheel slip for the lock to engage, or push the gas to have it engage, or disengage when I turn.

The TrueTrac is a limited slip, not a full-on locker. It'll behave on snowy pavement, won't stress the CVs as bad when I'm offroad but will still add a little traction, and won't hit my wallet near as bad as an ARB.

It's a compromise, though, to be sure. If my junk wasn't my daily driver I wouldn't choose it.
 
The thing about an ARB in the front is that when the ARB is locked, its a spool, not a locker, so you would me more likely to break than with a ratcheting locker.

Now a front locker with the hubs unlocked, will feel no different on the street than an open front in 2wd. But if you drive in 4wd on a snowy road, thats where you have to be careful.

Lock the rear and if you decide that you need more, then lock the front. And carry spare CV shafts and learn how to change it on the trail. A SAS is pricy if done right and your IFS can take quite a beating.

And ALWAYS set backlash when the ring and/or pinion is pulled.
 
The thing about an ARB in the front is that when the ARB is locked, its a spool, not a locker, so you would me more likely to break than with a ratcheting locker.

Now a front locker with the hubs unlocked, will feel no different on the street than an open front in 2wd. But if you drive in 4wd on a snowy road, thats where you have to be careful.

Lock the rear and if you decide that you need more, then lock the front. And carry spare CV shafts and learn how to change it on the trail. A SAS is pricy if done right and your IFS can take quite a beating.

And ALWAYS set backlash when the ring and/or pinion is pulled.

How do you define a "Locker"? If an ARB isn't a locker.
But yeah, I get what you are saying. Install a spool and install an ARB and activate the ARB and you have the same 100% locked function out of both. Except the ARB strenthens the carrier.
I would think the on/off action would cause more strained jolting than an always on type of locker.

Strenghten one part, and some other part becomes the weak link. There is always a limit. Will you reach it? When?
 
I was under the impression that lockers allowed some slipage between wheels even when locked. I just did some reading and I was wrong. Any locker, once locked is full traction. The difference it just how its activated.

BC4x4.COM four wheel drive, 4x4, offroad and fourwheeling site.

Learn somethin' new every day.

I believe you may have stopped a little too soon on the article, Hyde. What you are describing is the action of a selectable locker, NOT an automatic locker. Selectable ones such as an ARB are essentially spools when switched on, allowing no differentiation at all--this is why people switch them off for tight corners on a trail, then back on once they're straightened up. However, automatic (mechanical) lockers such as a Detroit DO unlock around corners, given a dry road that provides enough torque on the tires to do so. They jump the gears inside the diff, causing the infamous clicking sound, which lets you know it is unlocking to provide a speed differential--as soon as you straighten out, it returns to full lock, because there isn't enough of a torque difference between the tires anymore. On a trail, they may never unlock, simply because the surface is too slippery to provide the unlocking torque on the tires. A SELECTABLE locker will never differentiate--a mechanical one will, given enough surface friction.
 
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I believe you may have stopped a little too soon on the article, Hyde. What you are describing is the action of a selectable locker, NOT an automatic locker. Selectable ones such as an ARB are essentially spools when switched on, allowing no differentiation at all--this is why people switch them off for tight corners on a trail, then back on once they're straightened up. However, automatic (mechanical) lockers such as a Detroit DO unlock around corners, given a dry road that provides enough torque on the tires to do so. They jump the gears inside the diff, causing the infamous clicking sound, which lets you know it is unlocking to provide a speed differential--as soon as you straighten out, it returns to full lock, because there isn't enough of a torque difference between the tires anymore. On a trail, they may never unlock, simply because the surface is too slippery to provide the unlocking torque on the tires. A SELECTABLE locker will never differentiate--a mechanical one will, given enough surface friction.

This is further classifying lockers.
In general speak we could say a locker prevents the diff from differentiating, and locks the axles together. In general speak this can be with an ARB, spool, automatic/mechanical, or even welded diffs, in general speak can and are refered to as lockers, or locked diffs. As I might say I'm locked on all 4. But how?
Then we can further break these down and classify them and become more specific in how these work, their similarities and differences.
And it's good to know the differences to make a good choice, and understand how to make good use of it.

I like this FAQ:
Lockers
 
I believe I have a full understanbding of lockers and what they do. I was wondering what other soecifically with a 2nd gen have put on their rigs and how they like them.
 
i wheel mine with a lockrite up front and a trutrac in the rear... does great for what i use it for, and with a flat cv angle i dont break cvs *knock on wood*
 
Don't rush into anything.
Start out by locking the rear with whatever locker you decide on.
Wheel with that awhile to get used to what you can now do.
Decide later if you want to lock or SAS the front.
 
To answer your question, this rig will still be used on paved road often.

My own personal opinion for the best street-and-trail set-up is a selectable locker (ARB, etc.) at both ends. With this set-up, you can run unlocked (open diff) 4WD on slippery roads, allowing for full differentiation, with no adverse handling that can come from locked diffs on pavement. Then, when you get to the trail, you hit a switch and have fully-locked traction. Flip the front one off for tight turns on the trail, leaving the rear locked for the extra grip, then flip the front back on again whenever needed--this will cut down on the stresses on your IFS. Now to do this, you will need to also buy a compressor to operate the diffs, or run some wiring if you choose an E-locker. One more thing--if you decide to change out both diffs, this is a good time to consider whether you have the gearing you want for the final tire size you desire, and if not, change out those as well (no sense in either paying for or doing the labor twice). Best of luck!
 

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