Locking hubs on a 5th gen.

[Antman]

I have a lot of experience with manual hubs. My first 4Runner had them. If someone approached me and said "Greg, you have two choices today. You can install manual hubs on your 4Runner, or go have a colonoscopy while a dentist is drilling on your teeth with no anesthesia." I would sadly just drive my ADD equipped 4Runner over to the doctor's office...

 

[wfo9]

You guys are not thinking about this clearly. On a 5th gen you would not have to get out an manually lock unlock in inclement weather. You would leave them locked in those situations and utilize the ADD. Duh.

ADD failure is extremely rare. CV failure is definitely the most common failure point.

My buddy with a first gen breaks CVs a few times a year out on the trails. Literally takes him 10 seconds to unlock the hub then carry on the rest of the day in 3wd since he has a front locker....

Manual hubs would be fantastic from a peace of mind perspecive, I don't care what anyone says LOL.

Now the fact that it would be a mix of aftermarket parts... not so sure I would be thrilled with that.

 

[007Tacoma]

You guys are not thinking about this clearly. On a 5th gen you would not have to get out an manually lock unlock in inclement weather. You would leave them locked in those situations and utilize the ADD. Duh.

ADD failure is extremely rare. CV failure is definitely the most common failure point.

My buddy with a first gen breaks CVs a few times a year out on the trails. Literally takes him 10 seconds to unlock the hub then carry on the rest of the day in 3wd since he has a front locker....

Manual hubs would be fantastic from a peace of mind perspecive, I don't care what anyone says LOL.

Now the fact that it would be a mix of aftermarket parts... not so sure I would be thrilled with that.

True, but is it worth the money when the current system works so well? (Granted, I don't have a lift yet and off-road maybe 3 times a year.)

 

[wfo9]

They are perfect for off road I agree. When it's below zero and your hubs won't shift because the grease is froze and salt has corroded everything? Um, no. I also remember locking the hubs before starting a trip over 300 miles of interstate just knowing I was going to be in and out of 4wd because of periods of snow covered roads. Five hours later you just drove 300 miles with your hubs locked and the roads were still dry lol.

They have their place. A narrow application but one nonetheless.

Agree they are not for everyone.. But like stated earlier... on a 5th gen you could run them locked and utilize the ADD if you preferred that.

With IFS manual hubs (well built ones like the aisin)... They are 100% trouble free these days. Most of the solid axle trucks had reliability problems because of axle seal problems. The seals would leak diff fluid into the hubs and contaminate grease. Also, vibration had a way of loosening up the studs leading to external contamination. All those problems have been solved now with better hardware and seals. I can't really speak to intense freezing weather below zero. If they do fail to lock due to binding...... They are such a simple device that it is 10 minutes to take it apart and manually engage the gear.

Let me put it this way.. If the 2018 4runner came with manual locking hubs... in addition to the ADD. I would go buy one right away and gladly pay a 2.5k premium for the feature.

Clearly, people who own 5th gens have very different mindsets... You can pay for the dentist and colonoscopy... I'll take the manual hubs LOL

 

[1engineer]

Agree they are not for everyone.. But like stated earlier... on a 5th gen you could run them locked and utilize the ADD if you preferred that.

With IFS manual hubs (well built ones like the aisin)... They are 100% trouble free these days. Most of the solid axle trucks had reliability problems because of axle seal problems. The seals would leak diff fluid into the hubs and contaminate grease. Also, vibration had a way of loosening up the studs leading to external contamination. All those problems have been solved now with better hardware and seals. I can't really speak to intense freezing weather below zero. If they do fail to lock due to binding...... They are such a simple device that it is 10 minutes to take it apart and manually engage the gear.

Let me put it this way.. If the 2018 4runner came with manual locking hubs... in addition to the ADD. I would go buy one right away and gladly pay a 2.5k premium for the feature.

Clearly, people who own 5th gens have very different mindsets... You can pay for the dentist and colonoscopy... I'll take the manual hubs LOL

You are right... in some applications. I am sure they are better now than the time I sat beside a highway in below zero weather chiseling the water contaminated grease out of one hub while wishing for a torch in the worst way.

 

[wfo9]

True, but is it worth the money when the current system works so well? (Granted, I don't have a lift yet and off-road maybe 3 times a year.)

No not for everyone, and probably not for many at a price point of 2,500 (if that is what it is). But if it was proven and not crazy expensive and uniquely splined.... It would become very appealing. Let's just say if ARB offered a bolt on manual hub... they would not be able to keep them on the shelf, IMHO

The unique thing about this particular mod compared to other hard core Modifications like (locker, long travel...) is that it would actually save a lot of wear and tear on the front drive line and improve overall efficiency.

 

[wfo9]

How is the front diff powered by the transfer case in these trucks? I assume there's a front shaft of some sort, but is it totally inaccessible on the trail? Just thinking of a contingency plan for myself. If you bust a front diff could you potentially pull both front cv's? Would probably only help if you had a part time case though.

If the diff breaks and binds up the side gears.. you are screwed pretty bad and can't really move the truck. Removing the front drive shaft won't help. Going out of 4wd, won't help.

The only solution is to break apart the drivers side CV shaft. You will need some special tools (mainly a pipe...) and it will be a huge Fing mess. But if you can get the shaft separated from the two ends and loose all the grease.... You can reassemble and drive home without spinning the diff.

The problem is the driver side is hard linked to the diff and you can't just pull the CV and put the spindle back together. The axle nut is used to hold everything together.

To be clear, there are many diff ring and pinion failures that would not bind up the side gears. But it does happen.. and if you lose the diff oil for some reason... the diff will burn up trying to drive it home in 2wd and lock on you.

In most cases, the CVs fail before the diff. They are the weak link. You can typically drive very slow with a broken CV, but it has to be swapped before you can drive on the road.... unless you had manual hubs ;-)

 

[MeanoTorino]

I'm a fan of manual hubs, they are on my daily driver (Bronco). I live in the south, so I have no issues with salt or cold. I do believe that manual hubs can help with NVHs (Noise Vibration Harshness). If I'm going off-road or inclement weather is on the forecast I go ahead an lock the hubs so that I will not be caught off-guard. I do have a noticeable difference in gas mileage when hubs are locked vs free, but my vehicle has a TTB (Twin Traction Beam) system so I'm sure it's not as efficient as Toyota's system. The aftermarket system is interesting, but not at the current price point.

 

[wanderMT]

I have no reason for hubs on my T4R -
but, have an '84 Ramcharger I bought new. Has automatic hubs - automatically engage, mechanically, whenever trans case put in 4x4 (front axle rotation) and to disengage, must stop and reverse for about 10'. Have heard nothing but complaints on auto hubs - don't engage, don't disengage, weak and break. I only have 95k on Ramcharger, have only packed front bearings and hubs once about 15 years ago, and hubs have always worked perfectly - lucky I guess.