Looking at Corolla or Camry / Pros and Cons Between Generations

[Koko4]

I may be in the market for a new (used) car within the next year or so. Currently I drive a '97 Civic with 217,000 miles on it, but she's getting tired. I have to travel a LOT for my work (driving about two weeks out of every month) and I've been toying with the idea of getting something a bit newer and a bit more reliable.

I have owned a '91 Toyota pickup, that I sold at 280,000 miles and currently own a '98 4Runner with 161,000 miles. As far as the trucks / SUV's go, Toyota makes great vehicles. Little-to-no complaints from this end.

I know next-to-nothing about Toyota cars, though, and especially their newer models. I would probably be looking anywhere from a '02-'08 (can't really see myself getting much newer than that), and would be open to either a Corolla or a Camry. I basically want an A-to-B car, nothing fancy. Mileage is important - horsepower and "pep" is not as important. If possible I would like to have a 5-speed.

Another thing that is important to me is simplicity of design and ease of maintenance. If I need a replacement part, I want to be able to find it easily and replace it easily. No taking off an intake manifold to get to a starter (BMW, for example) for me.

I know that Toyota had some issues with oil sludging and excessive oil usage. This would probably be my main concern with purchasing a Toyota. I read that the affected years were the early and mid 2000's if I remember correctly?

Some of these models use timing chains an opposed to timing belts, correct? This could be an advantage, as long as I don't have to dig down to the timing chain level to change the water pump, for example. Then it's kind of a moot point.

I basically want to know if Toyota reliability and quality has gone down since the time of my previous cars ('91 and '98). I've heard stories from both sides of the fence.

I'm sorry if I'm being vague, or if this question has been asked before, but I basically want to have a decent idea of pros/cons/common problems between the various years and models. I appreciate the advice!

I figured some of you may cross-over into Toyota sedan-lovers as well!

 

[GHARP57]

I may be in the market for a new (used) car within the next year or so. Currently I drive a '97 Civic with 217,000 miles on it, but she's getting tired. I have to travel a LOT for my work (driving about two weeks out of every month) and I've been toying with the idea of getting something a bit newer and a bit more reliable.

I have owned a '91 Toyota pickup, that I sold at 280,000 miles and currently own a '98 4Runner with 161,000 miles. As far as the trucks / SUV's go, Toyota makes great vehicles. Little-to-no complaints from this end.

I know next-to-nothing about Toyota cars, though, and especially their newer models. I would probably be looking anywhere from a '02-'08 (can't really see myself getting much newer than that), and would be open to either a Corolla or a Camry. I basically want an A-to-B car, nothing fancy. Mileage is important - horsepower and "pep" is not as important. If possible I would like to have a 5-speed.

Another thing that is important to me is simplicity of design and ease of maintenance. If I need a replacement part, I want to be able to find it easily and replace it easily. No taking off an intake manifold to get to a starter (BMW, for example) for me.

I know that Toyota had some issues with oil sludging and excessive oil usage. This would probably be my main concern with purchasing a Toyota. I read that the affected years were the early and mid 2000's if I remember correctly?

Some of these models use timing chains an opposed to timing belts, correct? This could be an advantage, as long as I don't have to dig down to the timing chain level to change the water pump, for example. Then it's kind of a moot point.

I basically want to know if Toyota reliability and quality has gone down since the time of my previous cars ('91 and '98). I've heard stories from both sides of the fence.

I'm sorry if I'm being vague, or if this question has been asked before, but I basically want to have a decent idea of pros/cons/common problems between the various years and models. I appreciate the advice!

I figured some of you may cross-over into Toyota sedan-lovers as well!

I own a 2001 Camry LE with a V6 and a manual trans. I LOVE IT. I really dont care for the 02-06 and I hate the look of 07-11. On the 2.4 engines in the 07-11 camrys we are having oil consumption issues so I would stay away from them (just less head ache unless the recall has been done)

The 4cyl are all chain motors and the v6's are belts.

I change my oil every 3k on the 3.0 motor and I am okay on not sludging up (214k on it right now) no sludge issues on the 4cyl unless you go for a super long time. they introduced the 3.3 after 2002 that is an even better motor to have.

I like the Camry over the corolla just because of the space. I am a larger guy (5'10" 268lbs) and having the room is great. I average about 24-27 mpg's with the V6 and manual transmission. Perk to the Corolla is the MPG's will be a little better. That is the only reason I would see choosing a corolla over the Camry. Fueleconomy.gov is a great site to compare MPG's on vehicles.

The water pumps are external access on the 4cyl chain motors. biggest thing we see leak in the timing chain motor is the tensioner o-ring/gasket for the chain on the corollas.

 

[RedRunner_87]

I have a 2001 Camry 4 Cylinder w/ 165K miles on it. The interior is pretty "basic". I love this car, and can manage 30-33mpg on the freeway and have an overall 27mpg average right now. I haven't noticed excessive oil consumption with this motor. My friend has a 2003 Camry 4 Cylinder(newer body style) with I think about 200K miles. His has the VVTI and I notice that is has a little bit more power than mine. His has been just as reliable as mine, but his uses more oil than mine. But he switched to Synthetic oil and I am using the blend. His interior is a little bit nicer than mine, but I have no complaints about my car at all. The power is a little on the downside, especially for being in CO but it holds it own. My friend and I put a lot of miles on our cars, I average a little over 20K miles a year on mine, and my friend puts more on his. They both get us from Point A to B without worry.

 

[Koko4]

I'm glad you guys aren't experiencing the oil-burning issues, but they do seem prevalent within that generation as well! I would definitely get a 4 cylinder (personal preference - more room in the engine bay, etc). I am starting to narrow the search down to the 05-08 Corollas. I like the better MPG as compared to the Camry, and I also like how they don't have the stripped head bolt issue / oil consumption issue (this is most prevalent in the 03-05 Corollas and was fixed in the later years).

The 5-speeds from 03-04 also had a tendency to blow up, and had better bearings starting in 2005. So ideally I would be looking for an 08 Corolla 5-speed with low(ish) miles and power locks / power windows!

I've been reading the main issues with these Corollas involve the window seals, the PCM, and that's about it..

My Civic is going strong as of now, but at 217k it has a limited life. IF the engine were to go, I'd be out about $1,500 for a remaned unit (or around $1,000 for a pulled JDM unit, or something similar). And the transmission started making some fun noises lately, which I am hoping are just the TOB wearing in or something of the like. I replaced the clutch 20k miles ago and hadn't had a bit of trouble out of it since..and no slipping / grinding / pop-outs. Who knows.. it could last another 100k or could last another 2k. I definitely don't want to get rid of it prematurely, but I also don't want to sit around and wait for it to need ~$2,000 in repairs before it "appreciates" back to a ~$2,000 car (IF that - it has body damage).

Decisions, decisions.. it sucks being a grown up! :croc:

 

[GHARP57]

I'm glad you guys aren't experiencing the oil-burning issues, but they do seem prevalent within that generation as well! I would definitely get a 4 cylinder (personal preference - more room in the engine bay, etc). I am starting to narrow the search down to the 05-08 Corollas. I like the better MPG as compared to the Camry, and I also like how they don't have the stripped head bolt issue / oil consumption issue (this is most prevalent in the 03-05 Corollas and was fixed in the later years).

The 5-speeds from 03-04 also had a tendency to blow up, and had better bearings starting in 2005. So ideally I would be looking for an 08 Corolla 5-speed with low(ish) miles and power locks / power windows!

I've been reading the main issues with these Corollas involve the window seals, the PCM, and that's about it..

My Civic is going strong as of now, but at 217k it has a limited life. IF the engine were to go, I'd be out about $1,500 for a remaned unit (or around $1,000 for a pulled JDM unit, or something similar). And the transmission started making some fun noises lately, which I am hoping are just the TOB wearing in or something of the like. I replaced the clutch 20k miles ago and hadn't had a bit of trouble out of it since..and no slipping / grinding / pop-outs. Who knows.. it could last another 100k or could last another 2k. I definitely don't want to get rid of it prematurely, but I also don't want to sit around and wait for it to need ~$2,000 in repairs before it "appreciates" back to a ~$2,000 car (IF that - it has body damage).

Decisions, decisions.. it sucks being a grown up! :croc:

What about the space is appealing to you? just being able to work on the vehicles?

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Well technically all the 2.4L Camrys have a potential oil consumption issue at the moment...

 

[LittleCaesar]

My mother has a 2008 Camry. Oil burner since 7,000 miles. Valves chatter like crazy. The remedy for the top end is to use 93 octane gas, for the bottom half I use 3/4 of a can of Liquid Moly Mos2 every oil change. The 2az engine needs to be shelved------forever.

If you look at a Camry buy the v6. My sister's best friend has a 2015 Corolla and loves it. As far as the nuts and bolts are concerned, I can't offer any advice.

Neither car though IMHO has the ultimate reliability they once had when they both used timing belts.

 

[Koko4]

The space under the hood would be the main benefit. I like the idea of "drive-by-wire" because it combines some different components into one (hopefully) reliable package. I like being able to work on my cars without feeling clustered or cramped! Right now I think I'm at a '07-'08 Corolla 5-speed!

I've been reading that the 02-03 Corollas with the ZZ engine had oil consumption issues, but this was fixed. I will be more-than-good with an '07-'08 and all of the first-model-year issues will have been resolved.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

My mother has a 2008 Camry. Oil burner since 7,000 miles. Valves chatter like crazy. The remedy for the top end is to use 93 octane gas, for the bottom half I use 3/4 of a can of Liquid Moly Mos2 every oil change. The 2az engine needs to be shelved------forever.

If you look at a Camry buy the v6. My sister's best friend has a 2015 Corolla and loves it. As far as the nuts and bolts are concerned, I can't offer any advice.

Neither car though IMHO has the ultimate reliability they once had when they both used timing belts.

Funny you mention that, I was having a discussion with a mechanic friend of mine in the industry who's noticed that a LOT of modern engines are burning quite a bit of oil these days. We recently had a, hopefully, oddball case with a 2.5L 2AR-FE in a 2010 Camry that was consuming a ton of oil. Turned out that at the factory the piston ring gaps were basically all lined up, even more odd (to us at the time) was that the typical oil scrapper/oil control ring on the piston was not the traditional 3-piece design but a single piece unit.

After talking with my friend, he's seen, read, and dealt with a ton of VW/Audis, and other vehicles that are burning a lot of oil and most of these engines are using a 1-piece Oil Control Ring on the pistons which seems to be part of the issue (as is higher compression and some other things.)

 

[T4R2014]

My friend's parents have a 2007 and a 2009 Camry. Both are 4cyl and they burn as fast as gasoline. Every 98-02 Corolla I've seen has above average opil consumption. Actually, my aunt's 03' Corolla burned oil excessively too, and that was a new generation. These cars have sucked lately.

I had no problems with my 4cyl 1997 Camry though. Also, I've had a 1MZ- no issues. I know a few people that have them. None have sludging issues and they get their oil changed with the basic Jiffy Lube package.

Just my findings.

 

[Koko4]

My friend's parents have a 2007 and a 2009 Camry. Both are 4cyl and they burn as fast as gasoline. Every 98-02 Corolla I've seen has above average opil consumption. Actually, my aunt's 03' Corolla burned oil excessively too, and that was a new generation. These cars have sucked lately.

I had no problems with my 4cyl 1997 Camry though. Also, I've had a 1MZ- no issues. I know a few people that have them. None have sludging issues and they get their oil changed with the basic Jiffy Lube package.

Just my findings.

Seems like the vast majority of these cases are from Camrys and not Corollas - the Corollas have a 1ZZ engine, which (from my readings, someone PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong) were oil-burning in 00-02 and were fixed with updated pistons after that. From 05-09 would be the preferable years to look for, since there were problems with the manual transmission's synchrnos earlier than that.

 

[strathcona]

My wife has an 09 and she is happy with the vehicle over all in regards to driving comfort, fuel economy etc.

We did get the oil consumption notice in the mail and during her next service due in July, they will perform the testing as per the mail out notice.

It is consuming oil pretty quickly, 1/4 qt or so per month. My 03 4Rnr doesn't eat that much between regular changes.

 

[foxtrot]

My wife has an 09 Corolla and it's been a great car. Doesn't burn any oil, and we haven't had to do anything other than routine maitnence. Has just about 75k on it. We can get up to 40mpg on the highway also. Not too bad

 

[T4R2014]

Seems like the vast majority of these cases are from Camrys and not Corollas - the Corollas have a 1ZZ engine, which (from my readings, someone PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong) were oil-burning in 00-02 and were fixed with updated pistons after that. From 05-09 would be the preferable years to look for, since there were problems with the manual transmission's synchrnos earlier than that.

My friend's 99' burns oil like crazy too. I was talking about this issue with my mechanic and he said he's found cases of oil burning in all years of that generation.

For now we were able to reduce consumption in the 98' by putting in 20W50. It still burns excessively though.

 

[Koko4]

My wife has an 09 and she is happy with the vehicle over all in regards to driving comfort, fuel economy etc.

We did get the oil consumption notice in the mail and during her next service due in July, they will perform the testing as per the mail out notice.

It is consuming oil pretty quickly, 1/4 qt or so per month. My 03 4Rnr doesn't eat that much between regular changes.

09 Corolla or Camry?

My sister likes her Corolla, but she's already wrecked it twice..not sure how long it'll stick around with the way she is going!

 

[strathcona]

09 Corolla or Camry?

My sister likes her Corolla, but she's already wrecked it twice..not sure how long it'll stick around with the way she is going!

Sorry, Camry.

 

[LittleCaesar]

Funny you mention that, I was having a discussion with a mechanic friend of mine in the industry who's noticed that a LOT of modern engines are burning quite a bit of oil these days. We recently had a, hopefully, oddball case with a 2.5L 2AR-FE in a 2010 Camry that was consuming a ton of oil. Turned out that at the factory the piston ring gaps were basically all lined up, even more odd (to us at the time) was that the typical oil scrapper/oil control ring on the piston was not the traditional 3-piece design but a single piece unit.

After talking with my friend, he's seen, read, and dealt with a ton of VW/Audis, and other vehicles that are burning a lot of oil and most of these engines are using a 1-piece Oil Control Ring on the pistons which seems to be part of the issue (as is higher compression and some other things.)

So I have to ask Blackworks since the TSB was put out for the oil consumption in the 2az if your dealership has started with the oil consumption measuring process to see if indeed customers may or may not be burning oil in their 2az.

My aunt had the same car as my mother, ran 5w-20 dino (Kendall) and never lost or burned any oil in her 2az through 89,000 miles. Weird.

A neighbor bought a 2015 Camry. Drinks oil too, maybe worse than my moms. I would have thought in seven years the problem would be fixed, and agree rings are the issue.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

[MENTION=69868]LittleCaesar[/MENTION] We've been doing a lot of warranty "Oil Consumption Tests" at the dealership. Basically I top off the engine with 5w-20 to the "Full" mark. Then I seal off your engine with fancy red "DO NOT REMOVE" tape that leaves "VOID" in red markings if you peel it off on the following items:

-Oil Filter
-Oil Cap
-Dip Stick
-Drain Plug

Then the customer drives 1,100~1,300miles and returns for "Stage 2" in which I pop the cap off, add 1qt of 5w-20 oil and check the dipstick. If it reads above the "Full" mark you're within acceptable guidelines (about 1qt per 1,100mi if I remember right), it it's below the "Full" mark; we have to tear the engine down. Pretty straight forward, we've had the TSB for the oil consumption for a long time now, but it only recently became a voluntary campaign for customers.

 

[GHARP57]

[MENTION=69868]LittleCaesar[/MENTION] We've been doing a lot of warranty "Oil Consumption Tests" at the dealership. Basically I top off the engine with 5w-20 to the "Full" mark. Then I seal off your engine with fancy red "DO NOT REMOVE" tape that leaves "VOID" in red markings if you peel it off on the following items:

-Oil Filter
-Oil Cap
-Dip Stick
-Drain Plug

Then the customer drives 1,100~1,300miles and returns for "Stage 2" in which I pop the cap off, add 1qt of 5w-20 oil and check the dipstick. If it reads above the "Full" mark you're within acceptable guidelines (about 1qt per 1,100mi if I remember right), it it's below the "Full" mark; we have to tear the engine down. Pretty straight forward, we've had the TSB for the oil consumption for a long time now, but it only recently became a voluntary campaign for customers.

Some of the ones we have here in VA are leaking so bad we are having the customers come back on 500 miles to check instead of 1,000. I know we have done 3 or 4 tear downs to date and only had to put bearings in one of them.

 

[Ron4RNevada]

We own a 2001 Camry XLE V6. Leather seats; the works. Bought it new. Now at 125,000 miles. Drives like a dream - same as when new. Does not consume any oil, coolant, nothing----

Have replaced front brakes (rotors and pads) once. Rear brakes original. Have replaced tires twice. Replaced battery three times. Replaced spark plugs once.

Had locaL dealer inspect timing belt and water pump last year - He said they are fine.

I expect we'll still be driving it at 200k.