Looking for a new pistol

[LandCruiser]

What you fail to consider is that even a single armed person could totally change the outcome. Instead of 20 people (or in your oddly limited scenario 5) you could end up with fewer injuries or lives taken.

I find it funny that the gun grabbers preach that if new laws save even a single life then they are worth it, but ignores that an armed individual could just as well save a life or lives, probably better than some text on paper.

I wouldn't really waste my time. The far left mentality assumes that anyone who carries a gun has absolutely no idea how to use it since only the police and military actually get the necessary high level training to use one effectively. The lefties believe that a gun is more of a crutch, a satisfying of an inadequacy, and more harm than good in a crisis situation.

They feel that gun laws, gun free zones, and other crap are there to keep some kind of ficticious wild west shootouts happening between criminals and gun-carrying citizens.

 

[Thai]

Well, that is an interesting perspective. Ok, so, you go toward him with your gun raised (and aimed). A few things:

1. IF you were to hit a bystander, then would your actions be defendable at all in court? No. You're screwed to no end.

2. With now two gunners in the theater (you and attacker), how do you know if another CCW guy will aim at you thinking that you're also the attacker/terrorist?

How will the local theater/mall cop react in seeing two gunners?? Remember, this is a DARK place with people running around...aka mass confusion.

For all i know, i see shots fired in the dark...and see two gunners...how does anyone know who is the good guy or bad guy??

3. Raising up also makes you an easier target by the attacker...which in this CO case is heavily armed vs. your carry pistol.

Sincerely, in SV_Dude scenario (40 ft away etc.), i believe that taking actions like planned above by bofa and SV is a BAD idea for a civilian. Now, SV does have military training. I do not. bofa seems to be damn good with his guns. I am good with my P239, but probably not as good as bofa...esp. if he trains out to 100 ft!

I mentioned this in my other reply but before I saw this - again its a risk you take. If you carry a gun, it's entirely possible you could find yourself at the wrong end of good intentions. Hopefully the other armed person knows who they are shooting at before they draw. This is certainly something to consider before you decide to use your weapon.

Sorry guys, but i want to re-adress this scenario.

The CO shooter had body armor on. He has an AR-15 i believe along with other guns.

Not sure about you guys, but unless i make a perfect headshot in darkness on a moving object, my 9mm (147 gr hollow) from my P239 will be fairly useless, esp. if the guy is also on drugs. And outside of SV's military experience, i doubt that even a NAVY SEALs Team 6 can make that kind of headshot with a handgun and without any special gear.

In addition, you have no cover. AR-15 ammo can easily rip thru the theater seating...and i believe that was why so many died. You have no cover. So, exposing yourself or not, if this shooter starts spraying around him, you are toast even before you can even get a shot off.

Some instructors have suggested using a focused 500 lumens flashlight to temporarily blind the shooter (in the dark theater), allowing enough time for you to get the hell out of there! From all my readings from professional instructors, returning fire in the scenario of CO theater is not smart...and extremely ill-advised!

 

[bofa]

Sorry guys, but i want to re-adress this scenario.

The CO shooter had body armor on. He has an AR-15 i believe along with other guns.

Not sure about you guys, but unless i make a perfect headshot in darkness on a moving object, my 9mm (147 gr hollow) from my P239 will be fairly useless, esp. if the guy is also on drugs. And outside of SV's military experience, i doubt that even a NAVY SEALs Team 6 can make that kind of headshot with a handgun and without any special gear.

In addition, you have no cover. AR-15 ammo can easily rip thru the theater seating...and i believe that was why so many died. You have no cover. So, exposing yourself or not, if this shooter starts spraying around him, you are toast even before you can even get a shot off.

Some instructors have suggested using a focused 500 lumens flashlight to temporarily blind the shooter (in the dark theater), allowing enough time for you to get the hell out of there! From all my readings from professional instructors, returning fire in the scenario of CO theater is not smart...and extremely ill-advised!

Yeah, we can play out scenarios all day long, and some are very valid, but just keep in mind that body armor is usually a plate or series of plates to protect major organs. Arms, legs, heads, and every gap in between is still fair game, as are side shots depending on what you are up against. Its also good at limiting movement and flexibility giving the opposition a slight advantage.

And again, I'm not advocating what others should do... The subject came up and I simply shared what's would do to give myself and others the best chance at survival.

The reality of it is, a gun may not always be the solution, and you have to decide for yourself when it is.

 

[4runnerBrett]

Im so tired of hearing people who dont even have concealed carry permits tell me they would of jumped up and shot him in the head from 400 ft with their .45. Im like for one you dont even carry a gun so you wouldnt of done shit.

I carry as much as I can and in that CO shooting the odds of getting a clear shot with smoke going everywhere and people running around. Most likely It would of been either lay down or run and hope you dont get shot.

 

[bofa]

Im so tired of hearing people who dont even have concealed carry permits tell me they would of jumped up and shot him in the head from 400 ft with their .45. Im like for one you dont even carry a gun so you wouldnt of done shit.

Hmmm.... Who is that addressed to?

 

[bofa]

And SV, I feel defeated by you and you alone in this thread. I came in here trying to get you to buy 2 instead of 1 and didn't even accomplish that. Now we're on page 5 talking about the same ol' crap all over again... Well, at least you got something you liked!

 

[jwyshrek]

Im so tired of hearing people who dont even have concealed carry permits tell me they would of jumped up and shot him in the head from 400 ft with their .45. Im like for one you dont even carry a gun so you wouldnt of done shit.

While holding in 'gangsta' style no doubt...

 

[jwyshrek]

I've posted this before...but it is a good read...

A Day of Intense Force-on-Force Handgun Training - Popular Mechanics

 

[4runnerBrett]

Hmmm.... Who is that addressed to?

Not directed at anyone in particular just people I have talked to about it.

 

[bofa]

:rain:

Not directed at anyone in particular just people I have talked to about it.

Ah, gotcha. Haven't seen any of that here, at least not that I recall. Most of the gun owners on this forum are pretty low key unless someone gets them fired up. I think the same could be said about other topics too though, especially with politics.

Edit: somehow the little rain emoticon got there on accident. I'm going to leave him though because he looks sad and lonely... lol

 

[Thai]

Yeah, we can play out scenarios all day long, and some are very valid, but just keep in mind that body armor is usually a plate or series of plates to protect major organs. Arms, legs, heads, and every gap in between is still fair game, as are side shots depending on what you are up against.

Yeah, gaps in plating or extremities do not make me feel any better about my chances against the shooter!

I think that you and SV need to read up on professional highly-trained instructors who have given their opinion on the matter.

 

[bofa]

Yeah, gaps in plating or extremities do not make me feel any better about my chances against the shooter!

I think that you and SV need to read up on professional highly-trained instructors who have given their opinion on the matter.

Feel free to post the ones to which you are referring. I've watched and read all kinds of debates on this topic but more input is always interesting.

BTW, and I forgot this earlier... Holmes wasn't wearing armor. He was wearing a run of the mill nylon "tactical vest" with pouches for ammo and storage.

 

[SV_Dude]

Obviously there is no winning any gun argument with closed minded anti-gun people. I'm not even going to try to respond to Johnny.

I can say this with some good confidence, there have been far more lives saved by good people carrying guns than not. The co theater shooting was one example, an extreme and rare situation at that. There are a hundred different ways that any one specific scenario can play out and trying to judge or interpret any one is asinine. Bottom line, in any scenario you have to make the best judgement call you can within any given situation. You can either run for your life (which is fine) OR you can do whatever you can to protect yourself and others around you. I feel that as long as I have the ability to help others then I am obligated to do so. It's no different than a paramedic stopping to help a dying or injured person while they are off duty. There are always "experts" that will analyze each situation but unless they have been there themselves then it is all just talk. When the hit fits the shan, you just need to hope that you react accordingly and do what you believe is right.

 

[SV_Dude]

And SV, I feel defeated by you and you alone in this thread. I came in here trying to get you to buy 2 instead of 1 and didn't even accomplish that. Now we're on page 5 talking about the same ol' crap all over again... Well, at least you got something you liked!

I could have bought two guns that were within my price range but I try not to make expensive purchases with impulsive decisions. I ended up buying the cheapest gun of the bunch I was looking at but I also feel that it best suited my needs. There is never a bad reason to buy guns (with a sane mind anyways) so I will eventually get more and will definitely end up with a 1911 in the future.

 

[JohnnyT]

Obviously there is no winning any gun argument with closed minded anti-gun people. I'm not even going to try to respond to Johnny.

I can say this with some good confidence, there have been far more lives saved by good people carrying guns than not. The co theater shooting was one example, an extreme and rare situation at that. There are a hundred different ways that any one specific scenario can play out and trying to judge or interpret any one is asinine. Bottom line, in any scenario you have to make the best judgement call you can within any given situation. You can either run for your life (which is fine) OR you can do whatever you can to protect yourself and others around you. I feel that as long as I have the ability to help others then I am obligated to do so. It's no different than a paramedic stopping to help a dying or injured person while they are off duty. There are always "experts" that will analyze each situation but unless they have been there themselves then it is all just talk. When the hit fits the shan, you just need to hope that you react accordingly and do what you believe is right.

Ah.....a Superhero!! What colors your cape?

 

[JohnnyT]

What you fail to consider is that even a single armed person could totally change the outcome. Instead of 20 people (or in your oddly limited scenario 5) you could end up with fewer injuries or lives taken.

I find it funny that the gun grabbers preach that if new laws save even a single life then they are worth it, but ignores that an armed individual could just as well save a life or lives, probably better than some text on paper.

Which scenario do you find more combustible?

 

[SV_Dude]

Ah.....a Superhero!! What colors your cape?

Red.

Edit: it's also made of high quality Kevlar. It has multiple tactical patches sewn on to increase my speed and accuracy.

 

[JohnnyT]

Red.

Edit: it's also made of high quality Kevlar. It has multiple tactical patches sewn on to increase my speed and accuracy.

You bet it'll be red.... Blood red.... Yours.

Your intentions and bravery although admirable is foolish.

Thai should have his sermon ready soon to explain why.

 

[bofa]

You bet it'll be red.... Blood red.... Yours.

Your intentions and bravery although admirable is foolish.

Thai should have his sermon ready soon to explain why.

For someone that doesn't live in fear, you sure are pessimistic.

 

[JohnnyT]

For someone that doesn't live in fear, you sure are pessimistic.

Your damn right. I'm not very optimistic that Dude will leave his theatre with a heartbeat. Read his Superhero words.