YOU are the reason why there are so many violence issues in this country. If more people had the balls to stand up for themselves and others, people would be afraid to rob, rape, and hurt others. Grow some balls and man up!
Looking for a new pistol
- Thread starter SV_Dude
- Start date
YOU are the reason why there are so many violence issues in this country. If more people had the balls to stand up for themselves and others, people would be afraid to rob, rape, and hurt others. Grow some balls and man up!
bofa
New member
If it makes you feel any better, you are more likely to die on your precious commute than me or SV in a movie theater shootout.
JohnnyT
New member
How so? Where's your precious facts and statistics?
You know.....that kind of crap out your dairy aire doesn't fly here.
Or maybe you've finally started to lighten up.
bofa
New member
Yeah, but the difference is I can reasonably support my claim. NYC had 55 subway deaths in 2012 and already on pace to double that this year, although the official average is about 26 per year. And that doesn't necessarily include the platforms, where I would assume you are more likely to get attacked or have an incident. Nor does that include incidents that occurred outside the city but still on the transit routes.
AFAIK or could find, there have been no deaths in a movie theater shootout between assailants and licensed and armed private citizen.
Statistics are fun when you can narrow your scope.
(no pun intended.... now I'm starting to lighten up.)
JohnnyT
New member
Yeah, but the difference is I can reasonably support my claim. NYC had 55 subway deaths in 2012 and already on pace to double that this year, although the official average is about 26 per year. And that doesn't necessarily include the platforms, where I would assume you are more likely to get attacked or have an incident. Nor does that include incidents that occurred outside the city but still on the transit routes.
AFAIK or could find, there have been no deaths in a movie theater shootout between assailants and licensed and armed private citizen.
Statistics are fun when you can narrow your scope.
Nicely done. I'm impressed and I love the pun.
Technically, I take 2 trains to get into Manhattan and then walk from 33rd to 52nd street so I don't usually take the subway. But I did for countless years and somehow survived.
Yes, I would hope and expect that commuting to midtown would be more dangerous than seeing a movie.....around here anyway.
Thai
Elite Member
As you and bofa have preached, it is always good to be prepared, right? I like that. Not only should you prepare physically (gun range, drawing speed, etc.), you need to prepare MENTALLY. And while some of this discussion may seem "asinine" to you, you should note that we should ALL think about the many possible encounters so that our mind is more prepared when sh!t hits the fan. Look, you can train all you want at a gun range, but when face with a crisis, all that training is useless if you have no clue mentally how to react. A hesitation here or there...tunnel vision without a clue of surrounding...lack of awareness of situation and too much testosterone/heroism...and so on can be extremely disastrous. Let's not give CHL owners a bad name by doing something real stupid. I think/hope that we all can agree on that.
As for your paramedic analogy, it is a horrible one. An off-duty paramedic (or even myself as a physician) will stop to help someone because we can make a positive difference more often than a CCW/CHL owner in a dark crowded theater against a heavily armed shooter...and the risk of life (or limb) is very low for the paramedic and surrounding civilians. The risk to myself (e.g. lawsuit) is very minimal as long as I do things in good faith...even if the patient dies. I am protected by law. (Of course, i am not talking about potential risk such as being hit by oncoming traffic in my attempt to help the patient or car explode due to leaking gasoline.) Risk of bad things happening (dying, killing innocents, lawsuits, etc.) in the scenario above (CO theater shooting) is extremely high, do you not agree? And if you injure (much less kill) someone else, you're NOT protected by any law. Comparing it to a paramedic risk is not valid.
Your last sentence quoted above is correct. We are all "mall ninjas." Until faced with the situation, all of this talk is just speculation on what we might do. Hey, i might turn into a hero, instead of acting like a chickensh!t.
I try to play these scenarios in my head so that i know the alternatives...and listening to you and bofa has been a learning experience...because i would never think of approaching the shooter. But, at the same time, you guys also need to consider what I am saying. The CO theater shooting is NOT as simple as you guys think. Approach shooter. Kill. Easy. NO, it is not that easy. AR15 ammo rips thru seats. You have no cover...none whatsoever. The guy used tear gas. The guy is moving. Muzzle fire from your gun in an attempt to shoot him will give your location away. (Can you hit his head while he's moving with one shot under high stress environment? You better! He is not a possum on a fence.) He just points his AR15 at muzzle fire location and rips thru his clip...and you're dead. He has more body armor than you...whatever he has on him is more than your t-shirt. He has more powerful ammo than you. He is shooting from the front of the theater where his lower body is protected by people crawling and dying in front of him. It is dark...noisy...panicking people scrambling around. Tear gas! This guy is very smart...he planned it extremely well. He had all the advantage. Apparently, there were military folks in that theater that night. Of course, none were armed...but also, none made any attempt (that we know of) to physically attack the guy. Maybe, the windows of opportunity to do so is so tiny (if at all) that none of the military folks thought that it was possible. I don't know. But, i also don't jump to conclusion quickly about taking action without knowing my surrounding and circumstance.
That is my point. You guys may not have considered all of these before typing your actions out in this thread. Do we need to discuss this? We should because it helps us prepare mentally and gives us different perspective about a certain situation.
So, no, i do not think that it is asinine to discuss/judge options. IMHO.
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Thai
Elite Member
BTW, SV...do you think that you can create another thread...maybe titled, "CO shooting...what would you do?" and then move this discussion to that thread...so that we are not hijacking your thread??
BTW #2, i am really honestly sorry for hijacking. It has been a good discussion, at least for me.
BTW #2, i am really honestly sorry for hijacking. It has been a good discussion, at least for me.
Thai
Elite Member
For a guy who is so against guns, you seem to be attracted to these discussions like white on rice. Are you a closet gun lover? Come out of the closet dude...it's OK...it is 2013, acceptance is the soup of the day!
bofa
New member
We can keep discussing it but I don't think much will change. The separate thread might be good for organization purposes, but I don't see anything to gain from additional discussion. SV has his opinion, I have mine, as do you and JohnnyT. It's a simple flight or fight response and to be frank, flight is not in me and never has been, so fight it is. Yes there are risks, yes there are consequences, and yes its entirely possible it could be for nothing at all, but that's me. I don't expect others to be the same way and wouldn't fault anyone for handling it differently.
:deadhorse:
What would be interesting is a new thread with a fight or flight poll, and posting external resources to help people prepare mentally and physically to deal with these situations. Otherwise this will just continue to be a speculative tit-for-tat debate with varying situational details that doesn't end, like the others. :fencing:
:deadhorse:
What would be interesting is a new thread with a fight or flight poll, and posting external resources to help people prepare mentally and physically to deal with these situations. Otherwise this will just continue to be a speculative tit-for-tat debate with varying situational details that doesn't end, like the others. :fencing:
JohnnyT
New member
I'm concerned that you are 100% right.
But also, what fun is it to converse with only those that are gun lovers?
No biggie on hijacking. I already got my new pistol so my intent and goal has been taken care of.
But Thai, I think you're stuck on the theater event. It was just one xtreme and rare example. I could have used an mugging at an ATM where it's much more up front and personal, I could have used a car jacking scenario or whatever. Either way, my only point that I was trying to get out frm the start is that if you're going to carry, train yourself to use it. However you need to do that is up to you but if you don't know how to use your tools that are available then you might as well not have them.
Ol'Blue
New member
Books..
A read ever gun owner should read and if you carry, you owe it to your self, loved ones, and society to read them. It may very well save your life one day and the life's of others.
While I was a young Marine my Sgt. made us read them. I'm so grateful for them and his stubbornness to push it down our throat. About twice a week we had informal classes and talked about the reading and how the things even happened to us at the range. Amazing how all this stuff happens to you when shit hits the fan.
Enjoy, hope it helps just one person one day.
Blue
On Combat, The Psychology and Physiology of Deadly Conflict in War and in Peace: Dave Grossman, Loren W. Christensen: 9780964920545: Amazon.com: Books
On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society: Dave Grossman: 9780316040938: Amazon.com: Books
A read ever gun owner should read and if you carry, you owe it to your self, loved ones, and society to read them. It may very well save your life one day and the life's of others.
While I was a young Marine my Sgt. made us read them. I'm so grateful for them and his stubbornness to push it down our throat. About twice a week we had informal classes and talked about the reading and how the things even happened to us at the range. Amazing how all this stuff happens to you when shit hits the fan.
Enjoy, hope it helps just one person one day.
Blue
On Combat, The Psychology and Physiology of Deadly Conflict in War and in Peace: Dave Grossman, Loren W. Christensen: 9780964920545: Amazon.com: Books
On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society: Dave Grossman: 9780316040938: Amazon.com: Books
JohnnyT
New member
Which scenario do you find more combustible?
JohnnyT
New member
Which scenario do you find more combustible?
bofa
New member
The one in which an attacker goes unopposed, especially if he knows it ahead of time (like in Newtown).
JohnnyT
New member
An attacker will NEVER know if he will be unopposed.
bofa
New member
He will if you nancies get your way....
Gun free zones, especially when there's no armed security, are soft targets, and it's been proven over and over again.
It is my aim to keep doubt in their mind at all times.
JohnnyT
New member
He will if you nancies get your way....
Gun free zones, especially when there's no armed security, are soft targets, and it's been proven over and over again.
It is my aim to keep doubt in their mind at all times.
Whats "nancies"?
Is that someone thats not armed?
