Looking for some 4runner expert advice

[dr3ww3rd]

Hey guys I'm new to the site and would love some advice. I had a Jeep Wrangler in the past but never a 4Runner although I have always wanted one. I'm currently thinking about buying a 2014 4Runner. I think based on what I'm wanting to spend the SR5 with 4WD will be my best bet.

I would like to do a lift and tires later down the road and after doing some research it seems like a lot of people do a 3" lift with 285/70/17 tires. If I were to do a lift around 3" would I have to do any additional modifications such as with steering components or the driveshaft? I have noticed most people get aftermarket UCAs to adjust the camber.

Any opinions from people with 2014 4Runners on brands people personally have and like or don't like would be helpful. I know Icon is nice but probably a little too expensive. It will be used as a daily driver 95% of the time but I enjoy the more aggressive tires/small lift look. Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[DAGNABIT]

got to 5th GEN ------> Look up -------> See sticky

 

[Jetboy]

No drive shaft mods needed. Just UCAs and some fender trimming. Add some lower rear control arms for more travel if you wish. Lots of lift options. If it were me I'd wait to see how much the BP-51 setup is from Old Man Emu - I think it should be out shortly. The 6112 and 5160 bilstein setup seems to be well liked for a bit lower budget, but for me it's getting too close to adjustable coilovers for the price. They should have just threaded them and been done with it.

I think the BP-51 with internal bypass will offer better all around performance than anything currently available as I'm not aware of any current coilovers for the 4runner having internal bypass. With adjustable compression and rebound settings. It's always a surprise to me how tunable my MTB fork is compared to my vehicle shocks.

 

[dr3ww3rd]

Ok I will definitely check out that BP-51 suspension. It looks amazing but I'm sure it's going to be expensive. So I guess the only modification you are required to do after lifting is the UCAs?

 

[Jhalko]

I would suggest you read through the build threads, you'll find something that resonates I suspect, whether it's the look, performance, price or combinations of those.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/107831-5th-gen-build-threads.html

Also this is helpful

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/165065-5th-gen-4runner-lift-buyers-guide.html

Check out toytec and wheelers for sponsors that sell stuff and you will want to watch the group buy section for potential discounts on everything

Group Buys - Toyota 4Runner Forum - Largest 4Runner Forum

And yes plan on new UCA's with a 3" front lift

 

[wfo9]

Hey guys I'm new to the site and would love some advice. I had a Jeep Wrangler in the past but never a 4Runner although I have always wanted one. I'm currently thinking about buying a 2014 4Runner. I think based on what I'm wanting to spend the SR5 with 4WD will be my best bet.

I would like to do a lift and tires later down the road and after doing some research it seems like a lot of people do a 3" lift with 285/70/17 tires. If I were to do a lift around 3" would I have to do any additional modifications such as with steering components or the driveshaft? I have noticed most people get aftermarket UCAs to adjust the camber.

Any opinions from people with 2014 4Runners on brands people personally have and like or don't like would be helpful. I know Icon is nice but probably a little too expensive. It will be used as a daily driver 95% of the time but I enjoy the more aggressive tires/small lift look. Thanks in advance for any help.

Just so you know, Nothing special about a 2014. 2010-current are exactly the same except some very minor stuff. For some reason, new owners think the year makes a difference... It only matters if looking for a front bumper as the grill is different.

 

[Dalko43]

To all the responding posters, I agree the OP has plenty of threads to read when it comes to lift options and basic 4runner info.

However, there seems to be a noticeable lack of dedicated threads on how CV, driveline components get affected with suspension/lift upgrades. Does anyone know of any sticky that addresses that issue?

 

[Jhalko]

To all the responding posters, I agree the OP has plenty of threads to read when it comes to lift options and basic 4runner info.

However, there seems to be a noticeable lack of dedicated threads on how CV, driveline components get affected with suspension/lift upgrades. Does anyone know of any sticky that addresses that issue?

Its been said that if you go more than 3" you go through CV's, lower seems to be fine. Any suspension modification can reduce the long term reliability of related components but there has not been any theme of specific components breaking early so far, lift at your own risk.

Engineers have at it. :couch2:

 

[Jetboy]

The front driveshaft won't change at all from any lift until you move the differential. The front IFS sits really low compared to something like a 3rd gen. So you can pretty easily get away with 3" without cv issues. Beyond that you'll likely need to drop the diff for multiple reasons. The first being the CV boot lifespan. The second being the angle weakening the joint. CV joints are weaker the more angle they are at. And if you're lifting more than 3" you're likely looking at tires that the front CVs can't handle anyway - so lowering the diff to get them into the strongest orientation possible is you best bet.

IMO - I wouldn't even consider it. I don't think the CVs can handle big tires off-road. Nor can the front clam shell diff. So going beyond 3" to me means a solid axle. Once you go that route, then you're definitely going to be into new drive shaft territory. I'm all for crazy builds. But if you're budget conscious, you're much better off to just go find a nice FJ80 or LX450 and get front and rear e-lockers, stronger axles, and a very easy path to 37's with pretty decent drive-ability.

For that reason IMO - 3" is about the max lift I think you can go with IFS if you want to go off road and not be a show truck. I like show trucks. If you want that - go for a drop bracket 6" lift.

The rear is about the same. A 3" lift doesn't need any additional driveshaft modifications. Beyond that it'll depend on how you rotate the rear axle with the links and how it's located. My guess is that you could go up to 5 or 6" before you'd need any drive shaft mods in the rear. With a 6" lift you'd probably want to be running 37-39" tires, and they won't fit in the wheel well, so you'll need body work to open the rear wheel well considerably. Since there's the rear door to deal with, you'll be cutting back toward the rear bumper primarily and relocating the axle aft by a few inches. At that point, you'll need a longer drive shaft. So I think the rear is the same situation.

The result is that 3" lift is more or less a point of demarcation between easy bolt on lift, and major custom fab work. Coming from the Jeep world this might be quite a bit different. It's pretty easy to lift a wrangler in increments from 0-6" and up to 37" tires without crossing into a requirement for custom fab work. Of course the d44's won't stand up to 37's any better than the 4runner IFS will, but there are some options for upgrades on the d44 where there's really not much for the ifs.

 

[Jetboy]

Ok I will definitely check out that BP-51 suspension. It looks amazing but I'm sure it's going to be expensive. So I guess the only modification you are required to do after lifting is the UCAs?

If they price them near to what they are selling for in AUS they'll be the best deal by far. In AUS they're $895 for the fronts and $565 for the rear. It's a bit unclear if that's 2 front or one, but the rear is for sure a pair (thats AUD, not USD). So that's just over $1,000 USD for front and rear kit - still needs rear spring lift and front UCAs. But that's less than just the front pair of Fox/ICON/King fronts, and should perform better based on the internal bypass. Even if it's $895 each - which is less likely IMO - that's about $1600 for a full set, so still a good bit cheaper than the other competitors like Fox/ICON/King. We'll just have to wait and see when they start becoming more available.

 

[dr3ww3rd]

Guys thanks so much for all the info. Out of all the forums I have been a member of over the years I think that's the most info I have received with an argument breaking out. I will say the jeep world is different in that it's almost always recommend to do CV work when lifting on a Jeep. That why I was a little confused.

 

[3wbdriver]

Just so you know, Nothing special about a 2014. 2010-current are exactly the same except some very minor stuff. For some reason, new owners think the year makes a difference... It only matters if looking for a front bumper as the grill is different.

I ran into this when I bought my 14. The suspension venders were not updating their sites to include the newer 14 - 15 model years, so someone without a good basic knowledge of the 4Runner wouldn't know if the suspension had been changed. It's what brought me to this forum in the first place.

 

[jwkilgore]

One problem I found when I first got here is that the stickies you are looking for aren't actually stuck... what you need to do is to locate the sticky which contains an index of all the threads that would be sticked except if they did that the entire first page of the forum would be nothing but stickies.

Enjoy: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/92594-modifications-write-ups-quick-links-faqs.html

Guys thanks so much for all the info. Out of all the forums I have been a member of over the years I think that's the most info I have received with an argument breaking out. I will say the jeep world is different in that it's almost always recommend to do CV work when lifting on a Jeep. That why I was a little confused.

Bold words: hang around a few more days.

Jeeps already are at near max CV angle, but then they come stock with massive ground clearance.

 

[Jetboy]

I ran into this when I bought my 14. The suspension venders were not updating their sites to include the newer 14 - 15 model years, so someone without a good basic knowledge of the 4Runner wouldn't know if the suspension had been changed. It's what brought me to this forum in the first place.

I was told two weeks ago by FOX that the '15 was different from the '14 front suspension. (It's not BTW)

 

[wfo9]

The front driveshaft won't change at all from any lift until you move the differential. The front IFS sits really low compared to something like a 3rd gen. So you can pretty easily get away with 3" without cv issues. Beyond that you'll likely need to drop the diff for multiple reasons. The first being the CV boot lifespan. The second being the angle weakening the joint. CV joints are weaker the more angle they are at. And if you're lifting more than 3" you're likely looking at tires that the front CVs can't handle anyway - so lowering the diff to get them into the strongest orientation possible is you best bet.

IMO - I wouldn't even consider it. I don't think the CVs can handle big tires off-road. Nor can the front clam shell diff. So going beyond 3" to me means a solid axle. Once you go that route, then you're definitely going to be into new drive shaft territory. I'm all for crazy builds. But if you're budget conscious, you're much better off to just go find a nice FJ80 or LX450 and get front and rear e-lockers, stronger axles, and a very easy path to 37's with pretty decent drive-ability.

For that reason IMO - 3" is about the max lift I think you can go with IFS if you want to go off road and not be a show truck. I like show trucks. If you want that - go for a drop bracket 6" lift.

The rear is about the same. A 3" lift doesn't need any additional driveshaft modifications. Beyond that it'll depend on how you rotate the rear axle with the links and how it's located. My guess is that you could go up to 5 or 6" before you'd need any drive shaft mods in the rear. With a 6" lift you'd probably want to be running 37-39" tires, and they won't fit in the wheel well, so you'll need body work to open the rear wheel well considerably. Since there's the rear door to deal with, you'll be cutting back toward the rear bumper primarily and relocating the axle aft by a few inches. At that point, you'll need a longer drive shaft. So I think the rear is the same situation.

The result is that 3" lift is more or less a point of demarcation between easy bolt on lift, and major custom fab work. Coming from the Jeep world this might be quite a bit different. It's pretty easy to lift a wrangler in increments from 0-6" and up to 37" tires without crossing into a requirement for custom fab work. Of course the d44's won't stand up to 37's any better than the 4runner IFS will, but there are some options for upgrades on the d44 where there's really not much for the ifs.

I'll agree with most of that, but the tire size is not that big of a deal... The life of the CVs has more to do with wheeling style than tire size.. (although bigger tires usually push people to try harder obstacles)

I've seen people snap them easily with 32" tires. Some people don't seem to realize that throttle with a fully locked wheel is a really bad thing. A heavy right foot can break just about anything.... On the other hand, smooth even power with minimal spin will keep things together. That is not always possible, but I cringe when I see people attempting to wheel every obstacle with pure momentum.... Having the right tire and throttle control can often save the drive-line vs the alternative.

 

[Jetboy]

I think it's really a combination of extra tire height, traction, and trail type.

I'm not inclined to going up a tire size until I reach a limit of the current one. For example I think we'd probably all agree front and rear lockers on stock size tires is going to be more capable than 35s with open diffs - even with atrac. My first upgrade would be locking diffs before I start with lift and bigger tires. With a-trac and a rear locker, I might think a little differently with my 5th gen and consider going to maybe 285s before a front locker, but that would be the next step along with gears for me.

I definitely found differences in what I needed in terms of axle strength from 33 to 35" tires with stock Toyota 8" axles. I only broke one pinion over a few years with 35s. Then the jump to 38's was another pretty big change. I think the big difference is at 5 or 8psi when you're really letting the tire form to the terrain and maximizing traction. You might actually have exactly the same leverage by running the 35" tire 2psi lower than the 33, but you gain that much more friction. I break most of my axles in low range and 1st gear. And usually after trying a few times - airing down more and trying again. That's one reason i moved over to a land cruiser for my trail rig was for the stronger stock axles. The pinion is so much stronger on a 9.5" diff so its a bit safer to run lower gears.

If you run higher pressure and keep the trails within reason 35s are probably not to bad. A light foot can go a long way as well. Once you start pushing the limits of 35s with bead locks, low pressure, and such I think the front end is going to have a pretty short lifespan.

 

[borfoo3]

Look at my thread for a first hand lesson in UCA's.. I got lucky with stocks and a minor lift alignment wise..

Short version: for a planned 3" lift, get them.