Looking for some SAS insight

[J-man]

Hi, Im new on here. Still learning to navigate through the forum. So if Im in the wrong spot, sorry bout that.

I have 98 runner and was hoping to ask some Q's.
Next fall I wanna do a sas. One option I was gonna do was swap in a 350sbc, thb400 and d44 axles out of the blazer that I have. Or same powertrain and swap in a toy solid axle. Which from what I think would work cuz the t-case and toy axles are RH drops.
But, what Im not sure about. Is doing the sas with the 3.4. From what Ive read the tranny(dont remember the model #) and tcase are mated and cant be seperated because the tcase is hyd. and LH drop. SO , if I wanted to keep the 3.4 do I need to look for an older tranny and tcase, or is it actually possible swap out the current hyd tcase with an older RH tcase ?

I think I made that make sense .. haha

 

[KidVermicious]

A waggy D44 is driver drop and the exact right width for an SAS on a 3rd gen.

If you want to keep your 3.4 and convert to passenger drop, you could go to a transfer case from a T100, or spend bucks on a tcase adapter and use the earlier gear-driven tcase that was available on some 1st gen 4Runners/3rd gen minitrucks.

 

[white_n_slow]

The transmission and transfer case can be separated no problem, I'm not sure where you heard that bit of information. Your stock case is driver drop. There are options out there to convert your transfer case to passenger drop if you so desire. Simply bolting up a case from an older Toyota is one way of accomplishing that. There are also dual case options in either a passenger or driver drop configuration. You can make pretty much any axle you like work.

All toyota axles (mini truck, FJ60, F(z)J80 are passenger drop. Toyota axles present some challenges. The mini truck axle is short compared to stock width of a 3rd gen, which requires large spacers which is a little bit ghetto. The FJ80 axle has a funky steering setup that doesn't work with leaf springs unless you get aftermarket knuckles or a very bizarre high-steer kit from Slee. Neither one is cheap. This axle works fine with a 3-link + panhard or radius arms, but leafs is a challenge. You will also want to upgrade your birfields if running 35+ tires with any toyota axle.

As stated above, the Wagoneer D44 is as close to plug-and-play as you can get with a 3rd gen. 6 lugs, the right width and the pumpkin is on the correct side. Most people will tell you that a D44 is not strong enough to put up with serious offroad use (except jeep people, lol). Same goes for the GM 10-bolt (what I'm guessing is in the rear of your blazer). Your blazer axles will also be very long for the 3rd gen body, but some people are cool with that.

There are also a few aftermarket axle housings that will let you set up your axle any way you want it. Ruff Stuff, Trail Gear, Diamond Axle, etc. These are pricey, but when you consider the price of fully building a D44, the end result of a aftermarket axle will be a lot tougher and fit your needs better.

Bottom line, either a toyota axle or a D44 will need upgrading in order to put up with big tires and off road abuse. If you want to go bigger (D60, 14-bolt, etc), the price goes up, but so does the reliability factor.

 

[mmml4]

The earlier A340H is the one you can't do much with IIRC. The A340F you have is very user friendly. The A340 series of transmissions and their t-cases are pretty much interchangeable, lots of options. I am running an A343/t-case from an 80 series Landcruiser behind my 3.4 with no problems. The T100 is a good way to go right hand drop IIRC.

 

[IBallEngineer]

Lots of expensive options. Aftermarket axle housings and shafts using the mini truck set up are out there and solve width and strength issues. Personally I don't see a strength issue with ANY of the FJ60/62/80 axles. The steering adaptations can be pricey though. I am running stock birfields on an 80 axle with a 5.3 V8 in my land cruiser. Never an issue.

I don't recommend a GM V8 swap for a 3rd gen. Truthfully I don't recommend a V8 swap at all even though I love them.

:couch2:

 

[J-man]

Thanks a lot for the info guys. Definitely gives me a lot to consider. I never would have thought the pick-up axles were narrower then the 3rd runners.

Right now, its parked till spring. Pretty sure the rack & pinion is done in it, and the rear torque rod bushing are toast. Not to bad on good pavement, but in
the snow, even with good tires she's squirrely. And , with wanting to do some building I don't wanna invest in parts Im gonna be taking out later.

Fj parts or vehicles seem to be fairly hard to come across up here. I havent looked super hard but they dont seem super common.
Original thought was to build it with 44s then upgrade to 60s when I happen across a good deal. Ultimately, I want big boots, maybe 37s, or 39s and big horsepower.

As for installing the axle, thinking of 3-link up front on air bags instead of coils. ( I work as a truck mech, thought of air susp is somewhat appealing, haha)

Couple other questions, what gen of waggy would I be looking for , or did they all run the same?
And, steering. Best option would be to find a 2nd gen ifs steering gear and shaft and swap it in?

 

[downpour11]

Start here: Toyota - Tacoma - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum

and especially here: BillaVista.com - Offroad & 4X4 Tech Articles by BillaVista

 

[KidVermicious]

Thanks a lot for the info guys. Definitely gives me a lot to consider. I never would have thought the pick-up axles were narrower then the 3rd runners.

Right now, its parked till spring. Pretty sure the rack & pinion is done in it, and the rear torque rod bushing are toast. Not to bad on good pavement, but in
the snow, even with good tires she's squirrely. And , with wanting to do some building I don't wanna invest in parts Im gonna be taking out later.

Fj parts or vehicles seem to be fairly hard to come across up here. I havent looked super hard but they dont seem super common.
Original thought was to build it with 44s then upgrade to 60s when I happen across a good deal. Ultimately, I want big boots, maybe 37s, or 39s and big horsepower.

As for installing the axle, thinking of 3-link up front on air bags instead of coils. ( I work as a truck mech, thought of air susp is somewhat appealing, haha)

Couple other questions, what gen of waggy would I be looking for , or did they all run the same?
And, steering. Best option would be to find a 2nd gen ifs steering gear and shaft and swap it in?

A D44 isn't any stronger than a Toyota 8", and won't hold up to big tires and big horsepower. Both axles can be upgraded, but by the time you get all your poop in a group you might as well have gone with 60s anyway.

If you want a side to side rear-facing steering box, anything Toyota from '86 to '95 should do you, and that's the most common steering box for Toyota axle swaps. There's other options though, depending on how you want to set your stuff up - if you're thinking about linking the front, you'll probably want to shove your axle way forward and then you won't have room for a rear-facing box.

Please pardon the inference, but you're asking some seriously noobish questions for the level of build you're talking about. Are you an experienced wheeler? Have you taken on a fabrication project of this magnitude before? No offense, but from where I'm sitting you seem like you're new to all this.

 

[J-man]

Yea, I know toy and d44's wont hold up for the big horse power. Which is where instead of upgrading the smaller axles I would use the 60s. But, big horse power
isnt gonna be now. Reason for using the 44s, is because I already have them and have a 350. Figured once the major work is done, swapping in 60s would be the easy part.

Its all good, no offence taken. Im not new to wheeling. I dont rock crawl, but mud and trails. Im usually the one breaking trail and getting the calls at 1 am because someone is stuck. Have I done a build before, no. First build, wouldnt say its out of my capabilities. But I dont know what goes with what, best parts to use, ie the steer box. Which is why Im trying to do research to see what works and start collecting parts to start my build next fall.

 

[downpour11]

Yea, I know toy and d44's wont hold up for the big horse power. Which is where instead of upgrading the smaller axles I would use the 60s. But, big horse power
isnt gonna be now. Reason for using the 44s, is because I already have them and have a 350. Figured once the major work is done, swapping in 60s would be the easy part.

Its all good, no offence taken. Im not new to wheeling. I dont rock crawl, but mud and trails. Im usually the one breaking trail and getting the calls at 1 am because someone is stuck. Have I done a build before, no. First build, wouldnt say its out of my capabilities. But I dont know what goes with what, best parts to use, ie the steer box. Which is why Im trying to do research to see what works and start collecting parts to start my build next fall.

If you're planning on linking your truck, swapping in tons down the road after SASing with a 44 is not easy and not cheap. Your links will not work, your brackets will not work, and your steering will not work. You will have to practically re-do everything all over again.

 

[J-man]

If you're planning on linking your truck, swapping in tons down the road after SASing with a 44 is not easy and not cheap. Your links will not work, your brackets will not work, and your steering will not work. You will have to practically re-do everything all over again.

Thats a good point. Probably best then to do it with the 60s. Im all over the map about what I want to build this thing with.

Im looking your build thread, how is your 44 holding up?

 

[downpour11]

Thats a good point. Probably best then to do it with the 60s. Im all over the map about what I want to build this thing with.

Im looking your build thread, how is your 44 holding up?

It's holding up alright. Already broke a drivers side ujoint. I haven't really put it to the test yet with any hardcore crawling as I still need a few things. Right now I'm more concerned with bottoming out my shocks because of my lack of bumpstops at the moment. RCV's and some better hubs will be in my future. I'm really happy with the truck though. It's treating me very well and proving very capable. Things I wouldn't even consider doing IFS the truck just walks it. A lot of travel goes a long way. I still have a ton of stuff I want to do though.

If you have the dough, I'd do something along the lines of some spider 9's or some rock jock 60's

 

[J-man]

It's holding up alright. Already broke a drivers side ujoint. I haven't really put it to the test yet with any hardcore crawling as I still need a few things. Right now I'm more concerned with bottoming out my shocks because of my lack of bumpstops at the moment. RCV's and some better hubs will be in my future. I'm really happy with the truck though. It's treating me very well and proving very capable. Things I wouldn't even consider doing IFS the truck just walks it. A lot of travel goes a long way. I still have a ton of stuff I want to do though.

If you have the dough, I'd do something along the lines of some spider 9's or some rock jock 60's

Cool man. Dunno if my bank account would let me do that haha. Budget isnt that big yet. Hopefully by the time I get to cutting Ill have an actual game plan for what I want to do.

 

[Dous]

Cool man. Dunno if my bank account would let me do that haha. Budget isnt that big yet. Hopefully by the time I get to cutting Ill have an actual game plan for what I want to do.

What is your realistic budget?

If you are linking the front you would be hard pressed to stay below $6000 for parts...lest you bought a bunch of used stuff.

I know I have well north of that figure into mine, and I got 80% of the parts at or around cost.

 

[IBallEngineer]

In answer to "which waggy" axle, it would be the late 70's early 80's standard waggoneer. DON'T use the wide track axle, it's about 6" wider. There is also a Ford version of the left hand drop 44 that is a little wider than a waggy but not too wide. Sorry I can't give you the application.

 

[Snowy21]

I'm a fan of Toy axles personally. Hi-steer is cheap and easy, Longfields are strong and easy to install, lots of factory gear ratio's if you stick 8". If you like leafs then I'd look at an FJ60 axle, 9.5" ring gear and mini truck outers with 4Runner like width. Yes you have to flip it or get a gear drive case, but $300 on an adapter shouldn't break an SAS build. Or if you want to spend some more and go links/radius arms, an FZJ80 axle is a good choice. Very strong stock birfs, wide, and uses a high pinion 8" that came with an e-locker in some trucks.

 

[IBallEngineer]

I'm a fan of Toy axles personally. Hi-steer is cheap and easy, Longfields are strong and easy to install, lots of factory gear ratio's if you stick 8". If you like leafs then I'd look at an FJ60 axle, 9.5" ring gear and mini truck outers with 4Runner like width. Yes you have to flip it or get a gear drive case, but $300 on an adapter shouldn't break an SAS build. Or if you want to spend some more and go links/radius arms, an FZJ80 axle is a good choice. Very strong stock birfs, wide, and uses a high pinion 8" that came with an e-locker in some trucks.

I have an old 60 front housing and some other parts I'd like to part with. I think I have a 60 rear too. No good 3rd member parts though.

:focus:

 

[J-man]

What is your realistic budget?

If you are linking the front you would be hard pressed to stay below $6000 for parts...lest you bought a bunch of used stuff.

I know I have well north of that figure into mine, and I got 80% of the parts at or around cost.

:jaw: Dunno about that much. haha. I know it wouldnt be cheap by any means. But I havent gone a fully priced out anything yet. Party because Im indecisive of how I want to build this.
IF you dont mind, a very noobish question. What am I looking at to link the front? I know what Ive considered doesnt add up to near $6000, so I gotta be missing something haha.

 

[J-man]

In answer to "which waggy" axle, it would be the late 70's early 80's standard waggoneer. DON'T use the wide track axle, it's about 6" wider. There is also a Ford version of the left hand drop 44 that is a little wider than a waggy but not too wide. Sorry I can't give you the application.

Sweet , thanks !
Itll help narrow it down when I hunt for axles.

 

[J-man]

I believe and have been told the toys are stronger then a 44. If i do decide to leave the 3.4 in then Ill probably look at the toy axles or waggy axle. But if I do go with the v8, then Ill probably source out some 60s.
Part of me wants to build for a mud bog/drag truck. I want to keep it on the road for a year or two, then beef it up etc etc. ....... god decisions suck !