Love my 4 Runner but drove a nice rig this week.
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preacher35
New member
Whilst I am sure the Pilot is a fine, reliable vehicle with new toys/gadgets for the techies, it is ugly as sin and looks more appropriate sitting in the parking lot of JoAnne's Fabrics or retirement community then it would on any terrain remotely resembling off road. IMHO, it's only a game changer, if the game you're playing is Mahjong.
Thai
Elite Member
Remember, BOF carries with it some issues: weight, poor fuel economy, and usually worst crash test scores.
So, if you do not off-road but want an all-weather SUV with room, then these big crossovers are perfect. They are roomier than BOF counterparts, safer, and uses less gas.
Not yet. Pilot platform is from the MDX. As of now, MDX and Pilot are the ONLY ones using this platform, which is designed specifically for SUV application (for now). This is a brand new platform Honda designed in 2014 for the MDX with ACE II. It is very lightweight, strong as hell (over 60-70% high tensile steel, and provides 360 degree crash protection (important for 3rd row passengers).
It is possible that the NEXT gen Ody will also use the platform.
Honda LaneWATCH is horrible! You have to activate it to use the screen. You actually have to look at it. No beeping. And it covers only one side of the car.
Blind Spot Monitoring available in other cars and Acuras are much better. A simple glance at LED tells everything...no need to look at screen. BSM is on all the time. It beeps if you change lane and there is a car there. It covers BOTH sides of the car.
LaneWatch will die pretty soon...there is a reason Acura does not use it. Actually, my father almost bought the CRV but then tested the LaneWatch and just walked away to a Toyota dealership and got a RAV4 Limited with BSM.
Thai
Elite Member
Here is a thread on the 2016 Pilot: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/off-topic/188909-2016-honda-pilot.html
Specifically, the 9-speed auto is a NIGHTMARE! Horrible design. Hopefully, the OP's sister got the lower end Pilot with the 6-speed.
Specifically, the 9-speed auto is a NIGHTMARE! Horrible design. Hopefully, the OP's sister got the lower end Pilot with the 6-speed.
Gunslinger-13
New member
A Honda pilot is a small mini van made to look like an SUV. That is all.
They are perfect for 40 something women to get to and from the mall in.
**** unibody's
They are perfect for 40 something women to get to and from the mall in.
**** unibody's
Thai
Elite Member
I hate this unibody vs BOF talk. Neither one is inherently better than the other. What the vehicle is intended for is more important.
The Ford Panther (Crown Vic, etc) platform is BOF, but nobody builds them up as rock crawlers (except that one video of one in Moab, but even that look stock).
The Jeep XJ is unibody, and lots of people off road with them. Is that a small minivan, too? The newer jeep Cherokee/Grand Ckerokee (I don't know what the difference is) also do OK off road, but they are designed to be better for on road performance because that's what 99% of people need 99% of the time.
The Ridgeline is unibody, but they advertise it as sort of a hybrid frame to try to appease "truck people" who have a very specific idea of what a truck should be regardless of what would actually be best for them. Basically they use it's a box section frame attached to the body. Just because it's welded on rather than attached with rubber mounts, how is that any different?
Crash tests aren't an inherent property of unibody vs BOF either. I'm sure a Jeep XJ would crumple like a tin can in a small overlap test. I doubt any BOF platforms do well because the test didn't exist when any of them were designed. Plenty of newer unibody cars failed the test miserably when it first came out.
What makes a good off road SUV? Solid axles, lots of clearance, space for big tires and articulation, good approach/departure/breakover angles, 4WD low, etc.
What makes a good on road SUV? Good handling on roads, lots of space, fuel efficient, etc. Also traits of a good minivan.
A lot of these things are mutually exclusive. A Jeep XJ has plenty of room under it, but inside is tiny compared to the overall size. Seriously, it might as well be a 2-seater the back seat is so small. A Honda CR-V has almost no ground clearance, but the inside space is maximized.
Why isn't the Pilot good off road? Because it isn't designed to be. It doesn't have enough ground clearance, and the 4WD system, though good in theory, isn't robust enough. I wonder if the new Intelligent Terrain Management (sand, mud, snow modes) helps at all?
Just because something was done a certain way in the past doesn't mean that's the best way to do it. For example, even 4WD low could be obsolete soon. With 8 speed transmissions or CVTs first gear could be so low you don't need a low range. Of course they need to figure out those transmissions better, first, but one day someone will get it right.
There would be advantages if a car company were to hypothetically design an off-roader from scratch. It could have pre-lifted long travel independent suspension for good on road handling and good off road performance. With a CVT you'd save a bunch of weight from the transmission and transfer case. And with unibody construction it could be lighter and have a bit more interior space than current BOF SUVs. Or for the same interior size it could be a little smaller, so it would be easier to fit on trails. The newer jeep Cherokee/Grand Ckerokee (I don't know what the difference is) is close, but the design is more biased towards on-road since they still have the Wrangler for more serious off roaders. They have no incentive to improve on the Cherokee/Grand Ckerokee because the Wrangler fills in the off road space. If another company wanted to, I'm sure they could make a better unibody off roader. But it wouldn't help them meet CAFE requirements, and it might not sell a whole lot, so I don't know if anyone will do it. Whatever the next generation 4runner is will probably be our best hope for an off road capable SUV that's also nice to drive, whether or not it's BOF. They already have the Highlander (same as all the other 3 row medium SUVs), so they don't have to give it that treatment. They can focus on having an off road capable medium sized SUV and let the Consumer Reports people buy highlanders.
I guess every company needs a copy of the exact same 3 row medium SUV crossover because that is what sells the most, apparently. But once they have that, they can do something different. Honda has the Ridgeline. Toyota has the 4runner. Jeep has the Wrangler.
The Ford Panther (Crown Vic, etc) platform is BOF, but nobody builds them up as rock crawlers (except that one video of one in Moab, but even that look stock).
The Jeep XJ is unibody, and lots of people off road with them. Is that a small minivan, too? The newer jeep Cherokee/Grand Ckerokee (I don't know what the difference is) also do OK off road, but they are designed to be better for on road performance because that's what 99% of people need 99% of the time.
The Ridgeline is unibody, but they advertise it as sort of a hybrid frame to try to appease "truck people" who have a very specific idea of what a truck should be regardless of what would actually be best for them. Basically they use it's a box section frame attached to the body. Just because it's welded on rather than attached with rubber mounts, how is that any different?
Crash tests aren't an inherent property of unibody vs BOF either. I'm sure a Jeep XJ would crumple like a tin can in a small overlap test. I doubt any BOF platforms do well because the test didn't exist when any of them were designed. Plenty of newer unibody cars failed the test miserably when it first came out.
What makes a good off road SUV? Solid axles, lots of clearance, space for big tires and articulation, good approach/departure/breakover angles, 4WD low, etc.
What makes a good on road SUV? Good handling on roads, lots of space, fuel efficient, etc. Also traits of a good minivan.
A lot of these things are mutually exclusive. A Jeep XJ has plenty of room under it, but inside is tiny compared to the overall size. Seriously, it might as well be a 2-seater the back seat is so small. A Honda CR-V has almost no ground clearance, but the inside space is maximized.
Why isn't the Pilot good off road? Because it isn't designed to be. It doesn't have enough ground clearance, and the 4WD system, though good in theory, isn't robust enough. I wonder if the new Intelligent Terrain Management (sand, mud, snow modes) helps at all?
Just because something was done a certain way in the past doesn't mean that's the best way to do it. For example, even 4WD low could be obsolete soon. With 8 speed transmissions or CVTs first gear could be so low you don't need a low range. Of course they need to figure out those transmissions better, first, but one day someone will get it right.
There would be advantages if a car company were to hypothetically design an off-roader from scratch. It could have pre-lifted long travel independent suspension for good on road handling and good off road performance. With a CVT you'd save a bunch of weight from the transmission and transfer case. And with unibody construction it could be lighter and have a bit more interior space than current BOF SUVs. Or for the same interior size it could be a little smaller, so it would be easier to fit on trails. The newer jeep Cherokee/Grand Ckerokee (I don't know what the difference is) is close, but the design is more biased towards on-road since they still have the Wrangler for more serious off roaders. They have no incentive to improve on the Cherokee/Grand Ckerokee because the Wrangler fills in the off road space. If another company wanted to, I'm sure they could make a better unibody off roader. But it wouldn't help them meet CAFE requirements, and it might not sell a whole lot, so I don't know if anyone will do it. Whatever the next generation 4runner is will probably be our best hope for an off road capable SUV that's also nice to drive, whether or not it's BOF. They already have the Highlander (same as all the other 3 row medium SUVs), so they don't have to give it that treatment. They can focus on having an off road capable medium sized SUV and let the Consumer Reports people buy highlanders.
I guess every company needs a copy of the exact same 3 row medium SUV crossover because that is what sells the most, apparently. But once they have that, they can do something different. Honda has the Ridgeline. Toyota has the 4runner. Jeep has the Wrangler.
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Thai
Elite Member
Actually, it is. When you crash into something, with a unibody, the whole structure acts together. With BOF, you have two distinct structures connected only at 6-8 points.
It is harder to design a well-crashing BOF than it is a unibody.
BTW, why not compare CURRENT vehicles? Why pick on 1998 XJ? But yeah, not all unibodies are created equal and same goes for BOF.
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Then they should connect them in more places. 12-16 points would be better. Hundreds of points would be even better. Take it to the extreme and weld the frame to the body everywhere.
If the 4runner body mounts were solid metal, that wouldn't make it any less good, assuming they could keep the ride from being too harsh and work out the correct stiffness for everything. Maybe they would use a floating subframe like a lot of unibody vehicles do. My point is, unibody or not is not what determines if a vehicle is good.
I picked the Jeep XJ because it's the best example I know of. I don't pay attention to what kind of construction is used for different vehicles, for the most part. The XJ is cheap enough that people go off roading with it and there are a lot of them out there. It happens to be from before all these crossover vehicles were so popular. I don't know if there is an equivalent from this millennium, but I can't think of anything current. I think a highly off road capable unibody SUV could be built. It could have modern safety features and conveniences, but it wouldn't be the most fuel efficient and Consumer Reports wouldn't recommend it. I don't know if any manufacturers are willing to build one, but I suspect a lot of people would buy one if they were successful. If you look at sales for 5th gen 4runners or Jeep Wranglers, it's clear that plenty of people don't want a Pil-ander-xplorer clone even if those get better ratings or are better for their needs most of the time.
Thai
Elite Member
I see lots of words but...I have no comment.
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USNA91
New member
ound:RockyMountainT4R
New member
Thai brings up some important points. The pics he shows appear to be of the Front Small Overlap test. The IIHS has 5 Crashworthiness Tests. Many vehicles have earned a Poor on the newest Front Small Overlap test, while some, like the 4Runner, have earned the better Moderate rating.
The 4Runner has plenty of company in the IIHS MidSize SUV segment where it scored the highest rating of Good in 4 of the 5 tests. The Unibody suvs that earned the same rating as the 4R in all 5 tests include the Cherokee, Durango, Grand Cherokee, Santa Fe and Explorer. Others that fared worse than the 4Runner in this segment include the Unibody CX9 and Journey, as well as the BOF Wrangler.
IIHS results are one of the resources we considered when choosing our 4Runner. It is one of the reasons we chose the 4Runner over the Wrangler for our “fun on road/off road capable” vehicle.
We once owned a Pilot, a good Slip and Grab AWD(inferior to the Subaru system) minivan/SUV. Just out of curiosity, we checked out the new one and it did remind us of a lot of other new tech SUVs that will appeal to the family that needs a minivan, but wants something that looks a little less like one on the outside.
The 4Runner has plenty of company in the IIHS MidSize SUV segment where it scored the highest rating of Good in 4 of the 5 tests. The Unibody suvs that earned the same rating as the 4R in all 5 tests include the Cherokee, Durango, Grand Cherokee, Santa Fe and Explorer. Others that fared worse than the 4Runner in this segment include the Unibody CX9 and Journey, as well as the BOF Wrangler.
IIHS results are one of the resources we considered when choosing our 4Runner. It is one of the reasons we chose the 4Runner over the Wrangler for our “fun on road/off road capable” vehicle.
We once owned a Pilot, a good Slip and Grab AWD(inferior to the Subaru system) minivan/SUV. Just out of curiosity, we checked out the new one and it did remind us of a lot of other new tech SUVs that will appeal to the family that needs a minivan, but wants something that looks a little less like one on the outside.
