Lumbar Disc Surgery

[CXS]

I found the thread titled "sciatica" that had some information but I'd like to hear from those of you that ended up on the surgeons table. Briefly, I have ruptured and bulging discs L4 through S1 and have been avoiding surgery or 15 years after being told I need all those fused. No thanks.

Last June I lifted my spare and that did me in. The last 4 months have been crap to put it nicely. Pain at 10 out of 10. I've done the epidural injections, had sensory nerves burned and have slowly made progress. I've lived on Naproxen for years but that has nasty side effects over the long term and had to stop. I can now drive again and the pain has decreased to 4 out of 10 if I don't twist, lift or bend over. I spent 30 minutes under the hood today and I'm regretting it tonight.

Physical Therapists, Chiropracters, etc won't touch me and direct me to surgeons. Just about anything makes the pain worse so I'm caving and talking to a surgeon next week.

So what I'd like is to hear from those of you that have had lumbar surgery. I'm hoping there have been good advances over the last 10 years. Has that happened? How were your results? I know all about 'failed back (surgery) syndrome' that has kept me from even talking to a surgeon until now.

Sorry, tried to keep this short and failed. To add into the mix is my age, I'm 66 so I'm no young buck which factors into this as well. Those that have gone through with surgery please share the good, bad and ugly. Thanks.

 

[philsey]

As a young guy (late 20s to early 30s) I played rugby and effed up my back (two ruptured discs). I struggled with and fought it for a few years, but eventually had no choice as I was simply unable to function.

This was (!) 40+ years ago. After the surgery I was immediately better, but recovery took a while, but that was then. Ever since, my back always hurts/aches some, but relative to 10/10 it's probably 2/10. Naproxen works ok when I have a long drive. I am quite functional.

Modern surgery is good, they've had LOTS of practice on backs. Do it, get on with your life. You're ruining your innards with pain meds. Living in constant pain is mentally unhealthy too.

 

[CXS]

Modern surgery is good, they've had LOTS of practice on backs. Do it, get on with your life. You're ruining your innards with pain meds. Living in constant pain is mentally unhealthy too.

Thanks Phil, I want to get on with living which is why I'm seeing a surgeon next week. Honestly it scares the hell out of me knowing too many people who ended up going through a long recovery only to find no significant improvement. I have stopped all pain meds now that it's at a tolerable level.

I'm hoping to hear from someone who has had more recent surgery to learn what advances have been made. I'm hopeful there has been dramatic advances over the old fusion which has a lot of negatives. I know a guy that had a microdiscectomy on a single disc that was pretty successful but my 4 bad discs may be something different.

 

[Hepar]

Thanks Phil, I want to get on with living which is why I'm seeing a surgeon next week. Honestly it scares the hell out of me knowing too many people who ended up going through a long recovery only to find no significant improvement. I have stopped all pain meds now that it's at a tolerable level.

I'm hoping to hear from someone who has had more recent surgery to learn what advances have been made. I'm hopeful there has been dramatic advances over the old fusion which has a lot of negatives. I know a guy that had a microdiscectomy on a single disc that was pretty successful but my 4 bad discs may be something different.

What exactly are you looking at as far as procedure goes? I'm in roughly the same boat (although my boat seems more like a yact to your dingy) as you. Couple slightly herniated disks in my L5/S1 region. I've been trying to avoid surgery, but some days I lean towards just doing it. Where it effects me the most is my sleep. I can't sleep for longer than an hr or two without waking up.

 

[CXS]

I'm looking for a miracle! Seriously I'm going to see what the surgeon says. As mentioned I've had 4 disc fusion recommended in the past but that's major surgery. I'm hoping techniques have been developed to avoid that. My guess is you're a candidate for microdiscectomy which is outpatient surgery where they remove the disc section that's pressing on nerves causing the pain.

Not being able to sleep is as bad as chronic pain, it beats you down as I'm sure you know. I'm suspecting I waited too long since I appear to have nerve damage causing weakness in one leg. I'm no doctor but I may be an example of what not to do!

 

[Hepar]

I'm looking for a miracle! Seriously I'm going to see what the surgeon says. As mentioned I've had 4 disc fusion recommended in the past but that's major surgery. I'm hoping techniques have been developed to avoid that. My guess is you're a candidate for microdiscectomy which is outpatient surgery where they remove the disc section that's pressing on nerves causing the pain.

Not being able to sleep is as bad as chronic pain, it beats you down as I'm sure you know. I'm suspecting I waited too long since I appear to have nerve damage causing weakness in one leg. I'm no doctor but I may be an example of what not to do!

Yep. That's exactly what has been recommended to me. It's apples to oranges when you compare what I am looking at and what you are. Thus my yacht to dingy comparison!

A 4 disc fusion is no joke. Sorry, wish I had more insight on any new developments in that arena. Keep us posted though on what you find out.

 

[CXS]

Yep. That's exactly what has been recommended to me. It's apples to oranges when you compare what I am looking at and what you are. Thus my yacht to dingy comparison!

A 4 disc fusion is no joke. Sorry, wish I had more insight on any new developments in that arena. Keep us posted though on what you find out.

Rather than "yacht" how about "battleship?" :biggrin1:

If fusion is my only option I'll be one unhappy guy! Shooting maybe for multiple microdiscectomies instead. Talking to a guy I know with similar issues he mentioned a procedure where they go in from the front, push everything aside, and do the back. Apparently it results in faster recovery. The more I look into it the more nervous I get.

I'll see the doc on Monday.

 

[nevada]

i hurt my back during weight lifting in high school. though I didn't know it at the time. it ached for a bit, I didn't think anything of it. it wasn't until a few years later at work, my fingers and toes started going numb. not good.

I cant remember the exact number location, but it was the lower back. the damage had created a calcium spur, and it was pinching on the nerves.

i too didn't like the idea of them going into my spine and digging around, but it was only getting worse.
i had major back surgery 10 days before my 21st birthday. i will be 39 in about 4 months.

it was immediately better. though i have had the rare of occasion of muscle spasms, and back cramps. im not sure if this is a symptom of the surgery(piece of something floating around in there) or just lack of stretching and proper exercise. but that hasn't happened in many years, so im inclined to think it was the latter.

im with the other guys, get it done. im glad i did.

 

[CXS]

[MENTION=84120]nevada[/MENTION], my issues started due to an injury sustained when I was around 20. I was wearing a lap belt (before shoulder belts) and was a passenger in a car that rolled 3 times and stopped after hitting a tree. My upper body was tossed around like a rag doll while my lower body was held in place. I wish I didn't think I was immune to injury when I was young & stupid and dealt with it then but that's the past. Avoidance is no longer an option.

 

[mckennar]

My upper body was tossed around like a rag doll while my lower body was held in place. I wish I didn't think I was immune to injury when I was young & stupid and dealt with it then but that's the past. Avoidance is no longer an option.

I had a similar accident that ruptured my L4L5 and L5S1 in 2011.

I had outpatient microdiscectomy on my L4L5 and L5S1 about 2 years ago. It was immediately life changing. I could walk the same day with less pain than I'd had in my BEST days pre-surgery, and that was AFTER the surgery drugs wore off.

I didn't take any of the pain medication or muscle relaxants they gave me during recovery... I was just sore. Compared to the pain pre-surgery, post-surgery was a breeze. I was finally able to sleep through the night without back spasms, I could finally get out of bed without assistance, and walk up and down stairs. It no longer took me 45 minutes to move 15 feet during a 8/10-9/10 pain episode... it was amazing. Still is amazing.

I don't want to get your hopes up, as your mileage may vary significantly, but it's been 2 and a half years since the surgery and it's easily the best decision I've ever made health-wise.

Now I'm 100% pain free, and back to doing stupid shit to my lower back just like I was when I damaged it in the first place.

 

[CXS]

That's what I want to hear! While I won't get my hopes up it's nice to hear a positive outcome. 100% is probably an unrealistic expectation due to apparent nerve damage but I'd be ecstatic with 90%.

Thanks for your post and congratulations on your success! :thumb:

If I could get back to doing stupid shit the only one who'd be unhappy would be my wife!

 

[Hepar]

Rather than "yacht" how about "battleship?" :biggrin1:

Closer! But again, not even in the same category. I hope you can avoid any sort of fusion.

 

[CXS]

Closer! But again, not even in the same category. I hope you can avoid any sort of fusion.

That's two of us! Don't be like me and put your own back at risk of further deterioration.

 

[Hepar]

That's two of us! Don't be like me and put your own back at risk of further deterioration.

Noted. And don't worry. I'm already busy destroying my knees. Already had 4 major knee surgeries. Hoping by the time they are super shot, they'll have some ultra-cool bionic knees.

 

[CXS]

I love medical advances! Met a surgeon today and learned a lot has changed in the last ten years. Ten years ago surgeons said I need discs from L3 to S1 fused. Today I learned that if L5/S1 is fixed (it's virtually non-existant now) by using a titanium cage to bring it back where it should be the upper discs should return to a more normal position relieving disc bulges pressing on my nerves.

They pretty much fix the foundation of the spine by going in from the belly & back and fix it. Now I have to see a vascular surgeon about my AAA (abdominal aortic aneurysm) to see if it's safe enough to go in through the front w/o it rupturing and killing me.

Nothing like getting older!

 

[1engineer]

Good luck man. Oh, quit Googling stuff medical! That will drive you crazier than the real docs!

My wife has a t-shirt that says "My Masters Degree in Nursing Beats Your Google Search Every Time"

She says that has got to be one of the worst things at her job... non medical people doing a Google search lol.

You might not be that guy but too many people nowadays think a five minute search makes a doctor or engineer or lawyer out of them.

 

[sntryplt]

I had an L5-S1 disc laminectomy in April 1990--no fusion. Spent the next 12 years flying B-52s and E-3s. I now run marathons and ultras for fun (yes, I have a weird concept of fun). Absolutely no issues if I keep my weight under control. I'm 5'11", 165 ish.

Do it. After the recovery you will wonder why you waited so long. Just listen to the doctors for the Post-op stuff and don't rush it. You will feel better long before your back can take the stress.

 

[CXS]

Being days away from my surgery I figured I'd bore you with some details now that I understand everything. Short version: vascular surgeon will open my abdomen, push everything aside so the spine surgeon can insert a titanium block where the disc is supposed to be. Then the vascular steps back in and puts me back together and they flip me over and insert the remaining screws and brackets through an incision in my back. Scheduled window is a 6 hour surgery period, 5-7 days in the hospital, pain for 4-6 weeks, significantly less pain at 8 weeks.

A picture speaks 1000 words.

 

[CXS]

Good luck man. Oh, quit Googling stuff medical! That will drive you crazier than the real docs!

My wife has a t-shirt that says "My Masters Degree in Nursing Beats Your Google Search Every Time"

She says that has got to be one of the worst things at her job... non medical people doing a Google search lol.

You might not be that guy but too many people nowadays think a five minute search makes a doctor or engineer or lawyer out of them.

When talking to a doc I preface my comment with "I admit I was looking on the web..." and proceed from there. I spent years scolding my mother for Googling every medical issue she had so I get it. Unfortunately it's such a part of our lives I think most of us do it without thinking. I just keep in mind that, like most forums, only people with complaints or problems post. I don't think I saw a single post with someone saying "I had fusion and everything went great!" People just don't do that.

I like your wife's shirt, does it help?

 

[1engineer]

Ask them about the screw torque...