Maintaining higer speeds

[SV_Dude]

Anyone here with a 4-5" lift running 35" tires having issues maintaining higher speeds, 65+?

I have a mildly built 22re n/a motor with a 5" lift, 33x12.5 Baja Claws on 15x10 steelies and stock gearing. I'm having a hard time even doing freeway speeds and a hard time maintaining 55 going up steep hills.

I'm trying to figure out if this is just a reprocussion of having an underpowered motor and stock gearing, if everyone else is having this issue I will chock it up to normal conditions. If most people are doing fine for higher speeds and maintaining a decent speed up hills then there's some other issue with my 4runner.

I would like to think that with my motor that I built I would be just fine on the highway and going up hills. My 22re is bored .03 over, 268 cam, Engnbldr Street RV head, and an LC Engineering 4-1 header, no cat and 2.75" exhaust all the way back. I am guessing here that this set up is giving me about 150hp (at the crank) which is considerably more than a stock 22re.

So... do I have some issues here or is this pretty much a normality that I will have to deal with until I can fork up the dough for some new front and rear gears?

 

[Clone of the Mean]

I'd say you're dead on with your post. I went from 33's to 35's on a full size Blazer (350, 700R4 and 3.73's) and the difference was astounding..... Threw the 33's back on and never looked back.

 

[csrobb007]

Torque versus horsepower...torque is the force that will initially move an object (this is where gearing comes into play), and horsepower is the force that maintains it. If you check your camshaft specs, you will see a cross in the dyno numbers or "curves" where the hp and torque lines come together...cruise speeds on the highway should be just below this figure.
Let's say your cam torque and hp curves cross at or around 3 to 4 thousand rpm...adjust your gearing for cruise rpm at about a thousand rpm below that. Your vehicle (whatever it is) will be maintaining a particular speed just below the torque peak (giving you some power to pass or accelerate), while still being within the opperational range of the camshaft. (this is just a basic explanation, a lot more variables come into play...but you get the idea). 2.75 inch exhaust is going to have an effect with assumably almost no backpressure (which generally lowers torque) Larger tire diameter will in effect lower your rpm throughout the range, also giving the effect of less power at a given rpm (torque curve vs speed) Crankshaft HP is a misguiding number...you have left out 3 variables (with an automatic trans), and 2 variables with a manual...gearing and tire diameter combined for "final ratio".
In drag racing, we set up engine / gearing combinations to put the car in the lights at just the rpm where hp numbers drop (just like on the highway at cruise speed (minus the thousand or so that I explained)...torque gets the car moving (60 ft time), and hp takes over from there. I know there are plenty out there scratching their heads...understand that there are plenty of other variables effecting a situation like this, but this is the basic idea.

 

[SV_Dude]

Torque versus horsepower...torque is the force that will initially move an object (this is where gearing comes into play), and horsepower is the force that maintains it. If you check your camshaft specs, you will see a cross in the dyno numbers or "curves" where the hp and torque lines come together...cruise speeds on the highway should be just below this figure.
Let's say your cam torque and hp curves cross at or around 3 to 4 thousand rpm...adjust your gearing for cruise rpm at about a thousand rpm below that. Your vehicle (whatever it is) will be maintaining a particular speed just below the torque peak (giving you some power to pass or accelerate), while still being within the opperational range of the camshaft. (this is just a basic explanation, a lot more variables come into play...but you get the idea). 2.75 inch exhaust is going to have an effect with assumably almost no backpressure (which generally lowers torque) Larger tire diameter will in effect lower your rpm throughout the range, also giving the effect of less power at a given rpm (torque curve vs speed) Crankshaft HP is a misguiding number...you have left out 3 variables (with an automatic trans), and 2 variables with a manual...gearing and tire diameter combined for "final ratio".
In drag racing, we set up engine / gearing combinations to put the car in the lights at just the rpm where hp numbers drop (just like on the highway at cruise speed (minus the thousand or so that I explained)...torque gets the car moving (60 ft time), and hp takes over from there. I know there are plenty out there scratching their heads...understand that there are plenty of other variables effecting a situation like this, but this is the basic idea.

I understand all that but it's kind of a side point.

I'm trying to find out if my results are normal based on what everyone else is getting with a set up similar to mine.

 

[csrobb007]

Sorry, didn't mean to get too deep into the explanation...I just deal with issues like this alot when I get customers who want to change (or don't change) something, and get negative results...change gears to match the cam and adjust your curve range. My truck got the same result when I went up in diameter, but given my type of use and driving style, I didn't really care, and gained mileage per gallon so the trade off was ok. I sometimes get passed on hills, but I'm getting better mileage.

 

[SV_Dude]

Sorry, didn't mean to get too deep into the explanation...I just deal with issues like this alot when I get customers who want to change (or don't change) something, and get negative results...change gears to match the cam and adjust your curve range. My truck got the same result when I went up in diameter, but given my type of use and driving style, I didn't really care, and gained mileage per gallon so the trade off was ok. I sometimes get passed on hills, but I'm getting better mileage.

I'm in the same boat... I obviously didn't build a race car so going fast wasn't a priority. I will eventually re-gear to make it more streetable and have a lower gear ratio for offroading. I just don't want to do it till I get lockers and do my SAS so I can get a front locker that I will keep.

 

[DC runner]

You appear to want simple YES/KNOW responses. So:

YES.... YOUR ****ty performance is because you increased exponentially the load on your engine and didn't help how it operated.


The number one thing you can do to improve this is gearing, but understand that re-gearing is going to help make the engine move your truck better, but not faster. You can only do so much with a 4cyl.

If "off road" performance is SO important to you, and caused you to dramatically shift the scale on your trucks ability to OFF road behavior, you need to accept a loss of on road power. With the proper gears, you will notice a significant improvement in lower speed/band performance. But, if you have ever noticed about huge vehicles that are geared lower, they usually have lower top speed.

I think 60 - 65 mph with proper gears is respectable for 35's. You will probably have to move to higher RPM's to get it, in particular if your gearing moves down.

 

[SV_Dude]

You appear to want simple YES/KNOW responses.

Not necessarily. I don't mind hearing opinions on others experience. After all, that's a part of what this forum is for.

YES.... YOUR ****ty performance is because you increased exponentially the load on your engine and didn't help how it operated.

That's kind of the direction that I'm heading towards. But if you read my original post you'll see that I referenced to what I have seen others post. Some people are claiming to be able to maintain higher speeds with a similar setup to what I have, while I am not able to even hit 70mph, let alone maintain a decent speed going up a hill.

I was kind of hoping to get an answer from people who have a similar setup that kind of leans towards the same results that I'm getting.

IF people are saying that they are going 70mph without too much of an issue then that would make me think that maybe I have other issues that are un-related to gearing/tire size, like fuel delivery or vacuum loss, electrical issues, ect.

The number one thing you can do to improve this is gearing, but understand that re-gearing is going to help make the engine move your truck better, but not faster. You can only do so much with a 4cyl.

If "off road" performance is SO important to you, and caused you to dramatically shift the scale on your trucks ability to OFF road behavior, you need to accept a loss of on road power. With the proper gears, you will notice a significant improvement in lower speed/band performance. But, if you have ever noticed about huge vehicles that are geared lower, they usually have lower top speed.

I think 60 - 65 mph with proper gears is respectable for 35's. You will probably have to move to higher RPM's to get it, in particular if your gearing moves down.

Like I said above, I didn't build a race car. I built this 4runner to be a good capable wheeler and still a decent daily driver. This is my main set of wheels, so it needs to be functional on the road at a minimum. If a little sacrifice on the road is what it takes to have a good toy, then so be it.

Don't mistake my intention of this thread as a complaint... just trying to get some info from others to compare to my results.

 

[Hyde802]

Gearing man. 5.29s with the 35s should put your engine back in its stock powerband. Will help you on and off road. Theres only so much that weedwacker engine can do.

 

[cztheman64]

im runnin 5.29s on 33s in my truck. highway speeds i dont worry about, i just keep the truck around 2500 and 3k rpms just to keep wear and tear down on the motor. if you regeared to 4.88s you would probably be fine

 

[hoe_nah]

Sounds about right...lose those steelies, get some aluminum or alloy rims. GEARING GEARING GEARING lol...4.88s will do you good, 5.29s those seem to put a lot of stress on the motor but all depends how and where u drive your vehicle...I've driven both with 4.88 and 5.29s with 33 and 35s I personally would rather have 5.29s but for your application I'd go with 4.88s or maybe even 4.56s

 

[illzoni]

OP,

Sounds about right. My 87 w/ 22re is also slightly built. Running 285/75s (~32") I run freeways comfortably at 69-70mph. Keep in mind, that's my actual ground speed while the speedo is reading 65mph. I can (and sometimes do) push it a bit harder, but it feels like I'm straining a bit and the gas mileage plummets.

Pulling my empty, 600# trailer I can still run that same speed on flat ground in calm air, but toss in any grade or headwind and it doesn't like it. We'll see how I do taking the loaded truck along with the trailer, 2 motorcycles, and some other payload from Tucson to Murfreesboro TN next month. I expect I'll need to be patient. I will be running more steetable tires, but they're the same diameter.

HTH,
Jon

 

[SV_Dude]

OP,

Sounds about right. My 87 w/ 22re is also slightly built. Running 285/75s (~32") I run freeways comfortably at 69-70mph. Keep in mind, that's my actual ground speed while the speedo is reading 65mph. I can (and sometimes do) push it a bit harder, but it feels like I'm straining a bit and the gas mileage plummets.

Pulling my empty, 600# trailer I can still run that same speed on flat ground in calm air, but toss in any grade or headwind and it doesn't like it. We'll see how I do taking the loaded truck along with the trailer, 2 motorcycles, and some other payload from Tucson to Murfreesboro TN next month. I expect I'll need to be patient. I will be running more steetable tires, but they're the same diameter.

HTH,
Jon

Hit me up when you get to murfreesboro. I live about an hour and a half (sometimes less) north of murfreesboro.

 

[cztheman64]

im in murfreesboro

 

[SV_Dude]

im in murfreesboro

We should get together for a wheeling trip. You ever go to LBL?

 

[GonOvr]

For the OT ::cough:: turbo ::cough::

 

[SV_Dude]

I had a 22rte in it to start with but the p/o did a bunch of redneck sh!t to it and it had to go. It wasn't running worth a darn and it ended up spinning a rod bearing. So I rebuilt it and pepped it up a bit doing a n/a setup. I spent about $2400 on it almost, with it being that much I'm kind of wishing I did a 3.4 swap. I could have found a bad 3.4 long block for probably $600 or so and rebuilt it and swapped it out for the same price and have a bunch of power. I'll do that eventually maybe.

 

[GonOvr]

I hope you realized that a 22rte has a different combustion chamber in the head and the pistons are dished to create a lower compression. So technically you created a double negative. No low end power and definitely no top end power, since you converted it to n/a. Unless you did some extensive mods/parts replacement to bring the compression back up.

 

[SV_Dude]

I hope you realized that a 22rte has a different combustion chamber in the head and the pistons are dished to create a lower compression. So technically you created a double negative. No low end power and definitely no top end power, since you converted it to n/a. Unless you did some extensive mods/parts replacement to bring the compression back up.

As stated in the original post, I rebuilt the motor using an engnbldr kit (22re), new cam, street rv head (22re), ect... ALL turbo related parts were removed and this truck was put back to 100% stock drivetrain with the exception of a few goodies from engnbldr and LCEngineering. The P/O did a horrible rte swap and didn't do this 4runner any justice.

 

[cztheman64]

never heard of lbl? what/ where is it?