Manual Gen 5 4Runner

[pavelvoivoda]

I searched for a write up on manual transmission gen 5s, but didn't find any so here is an idea to dig in further.

Toyota doesn't seem to offer manual transmission for it's last gen Runners, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have the parts available to build it.

Recently, I started to look into the latest model SUVs Toyota offers around the world that have the same engines offered in US. I managed to narrow it down to one vehicle - Gen 4 Land Cruiser 150 Prado(after 2009/08).

It's offered with both engines, the 1GR-FE and 2TR-FE. Both have the option of auto or manual.

Searching thru the net, I also found that the manual transmissions that are used in the Prado are the R150F and RA61F depending on the engine. (source - TOYOTA LAND CRUISER PRADO TRJ150L-GKMEKC, 3301 TRANSAXLE OR TRANSMISSION ASSY & GASKET KIT (MTM)., and TOYOTA LAND CRUISER PRADO GRJ150L-GKFEK, 3301 TRANSAXLE OR TRANSMISSION ASSY & GASKET KIT (MTM).)

The FJ cruiser uses the RA61F...which technically means you can mount this transmission to the gen 5 4Runner's 4L 1GR-FE engine and make the engine work with the correct Body ECU from the FJ Cruiser.

The gen5 4Runner with the smaller 2.7 (2TR-FE) engine on the other hand, can have the R150F attached to it and have the same Body ECU from the manual Prado used to make the system work.

I still have to look around part numbers of the Body ECUs to see if they are the same or not.

The bell housing that is offered by Marlin Crawler for attaching the R150F to the older 3RZ-FE engine is the exact same one used in the gen 4 Prado.

So, with the right electrical manuals, I think that it is very possible to install a manual transmission in the Gen 5 4Runners in the US.

I have more info but I still have to dig deeper.

Just something to think about.
Now let's see who is up for it!

 

[Kashoggio]

Why?

 

[wfo9]

There were actually manual transmission 5th gens sold in the US in 2010. I've seen a few (very few) listed for sale. It was mated with a 4cyl.... Crazy... I know.

 

[Inv4drZm]

Why?

Because manuals are for car nerds :nerd:

 

[philsey]

:flypig:

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/110747-2011-auto-manual-swap.html

 

[itsmyturn]

Why?

Why not? If he is willing to do the research and someone has the time and money to do it, I'd like to see it done. Would be interesting to see.

 

[Mark_BC]

Why?

Autos are for sissies. :flame:

Specifically: if an auto has problems, it's usually catastrophic and can leave you stranded. You usually get more warning with problems with manuals and can limp home. Better fuel economy with manual. Less demand on radiator for cooling it. You can jump start a manual.

Autos are better for rock crawling though.

Maybe the 5th gen automatics are better, I don't have any experience with them.

 

[wfo9]

Autos are for sissies. :flame:

Specifically: if an auto has problems, it's usually catastrophic and can leave you stranded. You usually get more warning with problems with manuals and can limp home. Better fuel economy with manual. Less demand on radiator for cooling it. You can jump start a manual.

Autos are better for rock crawling though.

Maybe the 5th gen automatics are better, I don't have any experience with them.

Yes, in the older trucks manual is the only way to go. The old toyotas with autos are not running anymore....The manuals pretty much just keep going.

You can still rock crawl with a manual.... But you need a lot reduction gearing compared to an auto. I have up to a 10.7:1 reduction and I use every bit of it in extreme crawling conditions... With an auto, I could gt by with 4:1....

The other interesting thing about a manual is that you can run way more reduction without the downsides... I often start in 3rd gear... Very much pros and cons to both... but I don't think I would want a manual in a 5th gen...personally. Love it in my lightweight crawler though.

 

[DesertCanyons]

Manual trans 5th gen

Thanks for the insight [MENTION=106176]wfo9[/MENTION]
I'd be interested in a manual if it had a 6 speed with a very low 1st gear and an overdrive. I'm not sure but I think that's what wfo9 is referring to with the low rear diff gearing. Correct?

 

[wfo9]

Thanks for the insight [MENTION=106176]wfo9[/MENTION]
I'd be interested in a manual if it had a 6 speed with a very low 1st gear and an overdrive. I'm not sure but I think that's what wfo9 is referring to with the low rear diff gearing. Correct?

Not really, I'm talking about the transfer case reduction gear.

Crawl ratio is much more critical with a manual. You need something much higher than what the 5th gen offers.

first gear * tcase reduction * diff reduction = crawl ratio

So stock 5th gen is
3.52 * 2.57 * 3.73 = 33.74:1

But there is another factor with an auto that is fuzzy (which is the torque converter) so as a general rule of thumb you can multiply in another ~2x reduction. SO call it 60:1 usable reduction.


In comparison my rock crawler with a manual has up to

3.95 * (2.28 * 4.7) * 5.29 = 223:1

It's big time overkill... but you need at least 60:1 to make a manual manageable in technical terrain, but more is better.

So to run a manual on a 5th gen you would need something with a really low first gear (5:1 ...) or a better reduction gear in the tcase... On the old school toyota gear driven cases you can double them up... and swap out the gears inside. On the newer chain driven stuff there is not really the same options and no room to double them in the 5th gen. The only option (without moving the gas tank) is to put in an Atlas.. (which I'm considering if I end up doing a solid axle swap). Proper crawl ratio saves the rig and the drive-line.. Its the secret to keeping a rig together while rock crawling in my opinion.... Think of it as putting things into slow motion... The shock loads decrease and everything feels like it weighs less.

 

[Scramble]

Why?

Because real men use 3 pedals without any girly computerized traction control, d/h assisty. LOL :cheers:

Wait! Lets make it even better with an I-Force V8. There are plenty of rotted out Tundra's & Sequoia's with perfect engines.
:rockon:

 

[PeoplecallmeIan]

If I had the means to do this I totally would. Manual transmissions are so fun to drive. I learned how to drive with my dads 1988 Ford Bronco 4x4 when I was 14. It would probably be a PITA to do though

 

[Mutant138]

LS3 with a T56 Super Magnum and a standalone ecu. My plan for when I have increased income or engine/trans failure.

 

[borfoo3]

In concept yea manuals sound better. In reality, I think it’s a different story..

We had the manual 6spd trans FJs here in the GCC along with the auto option.. constant AWD btw and not 2WD selectable. My friend still has his manual Tacoma, and we own an Auto Tacoma besides my 5th gen T4R

The thing we’ve noticed is that unfortunately the Toyota manuals are plagued with issues. Bad Syncros, grinding, throw out bearing...etc. the manual. Tacoma is already on its 2nd bell housing too.. and we both go hard on the dunes here.

They do have an advantage of lower first gear plus the pros of a manual transmission in terms of control.. however they are simply not as strong/ reliable as the Toyota A750 autos, which are well proven by now. My 0.02

 

[epjfsa]

Because real men use 3 pedals without any girly computerized traction control, d/h assisty. LOL :cheers:

Wait! Lets make it even better with an I-Force V8. There are plenty of rotted out Tundra's & Sequoia's with perfect engines.
:rockon:

I decided that my perceived masculinity wasn't worth driving a manual truck ('15 tacoma) in DC traffic and ended up with the 4runner. Yea, it's certainly more fun to drive at times, but to be honest, every manual BOF truck I've driven (which isn't many) are incredibly unrefined with gearing that isn't optimal for the majority of normal driving. It also amplifies any lack of power, because you end up having to downshift just to make it up hills on the highway. That, and towing/off roading/etc. seem to be easier in an automatic.

Though perhaps I would have been more tolerant with the Tacoma if I hadn't kept my old three-pedal car...

 

[CF_Machete]

Why?

Because some people want to drive their vehicles rather than simply steer.

If I could flip a switch and go between automatic for the wife and manual for myself, I'd be all over it. Not the trip tronic shit, legit manual/ auto hybrid.

Damn I miss my 2000 manual pathfinder.

 

[Ray Dunakin]

Every car or SUV I've ever owned had a manual transmission, and I loved it. Hated automatics, at least for trucks/SUVs. When my last Isuzu Trooper was getting long in the tooth and it was time for a new vehicle, I was dreading the fact that it would have to be an automatic.

But now that I've had my 4Runner for a couple years, I'm pretty happy with its auto transmission. Maybe I'm just getting soft in my old age.

 

[83Mule]

On my first gen PU I can't imagine an auto....I enjoy ''driving'' it and shifting the boxes. On my 5th gen I can't see any advantage to a stick. There is a power threshold where a manual becomes a detriment, yet on an underpowered 1st gen it's a necessity!hwell:

 

[4x4fiend]

Subscribed! Good to see someone going further with this, don't know what value people think they add arguing against the idea - if you don't want it don't follow the thread!

After moving from a 2014 Tacoma 6spd to a 2012 4runner, the only thing other than having an open bed that I really miss is a manual transmission. For a truck that's only 500lbs heavier and has 34 more hp, the 4runner is a real dog.

opcorn:

 

[4x4fiend]

Been looking into engine tuners and it dawned on me this might be the breakthrough to make this happen. A company called orange virus is (supposedly) working on cracking the 4runner ECU and TCU, I say supposedly as they have apparently told numerous people a 4runner tune was in the works but the timelines keep passing - there is a version 1.0 tune in testing by a t4r member tho! (Orange Virus tune in progress)

Once the ecu is cracked I think the opportunity is there to get in and modify the program to manage a transmission swap. There are other tuners but I don't believe they look at the transmission controller.