manual vs. auto for off roading?

[Gerdo]

It's a dance between:
clutch in
clutch out
slipping the clutch
working the hand brake
just enough gas to keep from stalling


Yes I rock crawl. No I don't have a crawl box.

You will have to slip the clutch some. The skill comes with just enough gas that you are not burning the clutch. There are times that I can smell the clutch after getting thru something gnarly. I went thru a stage where I was afraid of stalling and was too heavy on the gas. This is when I was seeing some smoke. Once I calmed down, I stopped burning the clutch.

Using the hand brake is vital. It must be able to hold/stop the rig on even the steepest obstacles. It will act like a third foot. You will get the feel for them. Hand on the lever and thumb on the button. Feather it in and out as needed, even partially on at times. Ease it off as you ease out the clutch, back on as the clutch is pushed in. If the rear brakes are good (good shoes and no leaking axle oil) they will hold the rig. When crawling, my hand doesn't leave the hand brake.

Remember if you stall on a hill. The power brakes usually have one good use of stored pressure. If you stall, hit the brakes and pull up on the hand brake.

 

[adkinsadam1]

It's a dance between:
clutch in
clutch out
slipping the clutch
working the hand brake
just enough gas to keep from stalling


Yes I rock crawl. No I don't have a crawl box.

You will have to slip the clutch some. The skill comes with just enough gas that you are not burning the clutch. There are times that I can smell the clutch after getting thru something gnarly. I went thru a stage where I was afraid of stalling and was too heavy on the gas. This is when I was seeing some smoke. Once I calmed down, I stopped burning the clutch.

Using the hand brake is vital. It must be able to hold/stop the rig on even the steepest obstacles. It will act like a third foot. You will get the feel for them. Hand on the lever and thumb on the button. Feather it in and out as needed, even partially on at times. Ease it off as you ease out the clutch, back on as the clutch is pushed in. If the rear brakes are good (good shoes and no leaking axle oil) they will hold the rig. When crawling, my hand doesn't leave the hand brake.

Remember if you stall on a hill. The power brakes usually have one good use of stored pressure. If you stall, hit the brakes and pull up on the hand brake.

Can I put you on my "to off-road with list"?

 

[Gerdo]

Can I put you on my "to off-road with list"?

Sure.
I may do this http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/155486-attn-colorado-guys-4.html trip. Still TBD.

 

[glenyoshida]

When I would go rock crawling in my manual the most helpful and often overlooked tool was the parking brake.

A lot of people give up utilizing it for rock crawling because the parking brake tends to lose holding power as they go out of adjustment. Keep it tight and it will help on those obstacles where you have to feather the clutch.

In my manual rig the parking brake became second nature when going up something that required a lot of torque or after stalling. It's the easiest thing to do to improve your rock crawling experience.



Something that will help your sanity is to accept that while rock crawling is harder on your clutch it's not really all that bad to get some extra wear out of it. Everything wears out faster on a trail. It's like wearing out tires in Moab. Every trip out there it seems there is an obstacle that's so tough that after I get through it I go back to see the little pile of tire dust. I can see how many thousands of miles I just wore off the tires in a few seconds but that's just part of wheeling.

Swapping out a clutch isn't that bad. You can get it done in a day with a buddy and the parts are are a few hundred bucks. You ought be able to go for years before needing a new clutch even with regular wheeling.

Don't worry about slipping the clutch so much, it'll give you warning when it's time to replace it. You'll start to feel it slipping when on an obstacle and that's normally plenty of warning to still get you back down the mountain. It's normal to smell your clutch after something tough.

Some guys will say that a good driver never let's his clutch slip but that's B.S.. Unless you are geared low enough or have some other combination of mods such as a larger clutch, bigger flywheel, or modified brakes there just isn't a way to avoid the need to slip the clutch some.

Before the flaming starts I'm not saying that you should be burning up a clutch an on ant hill. There are just some obstacles that are so gnarly that it can't be avoided. The better a wheeler gets, the less slipping is needed to get through the obstacle.



Heel-toe. For some reason this seems to stay an unintended secret. Kind of like two-footing in an auto.

For example, when cresting a large rock, most people have their right foot on the gas and try to move it to the brake in time to slow the vehicle before it smashes down on the slider. There often just isn't enough time to do that so the solution is to keep you heel on the brake and your toe on the gas.

That allows you to simultaneously brake and gas similar to what you can do when you two-foot in an auto. It takes quite a bit of practice but getting good at it really closes the gap between manual and auto. Start by practicing on the hardball when on a hill.

Consider modifying your brake and gas pedals. It's a huge help so you don't have to turn out your right foot so much.



IMHO manuals are better in just about every other situation but when it comes to rock crawling they are more difficult to control and require some planning with more continuous movement. There isn't always the luxury and ease of stopping in the middle of a line to evaluate again. I'm not saying that there aren't good manual transmission wheelers out there. I wheel with some of the best but having rock crawled in both manual and auto rigs it's pretty obvious that it requires more skill to get the same result in a manual.

Not saying one is better than the other here either, both have their merits.

I'll be interested to hear what you think in a couple of years since you started in an auto and now have a manual. Ha! maybe LD should start making modified gas and brake pedals to help out with heel-toe wheeling.

 

[adkinsadam1]

glenyoshida, I've added you to my "to wheel with" list.

 

[Gerdo]

glenyoshida, I've added you to my "to wheel with" list.

If you are wheeling with me then you are probably wheeling with him.

 

[bharris68]

Depends on the setup...

Manual - SM420 / SM465 against an NP205 all gear driven transfer cases will give you creepy low gears and an unbreakable transfer case.

Auto - A727 Torqueflite against an NP205.

Heavy? Yes - but that's not what you asked

 

[RonMAIDEN]

For the intermediate trails I do I don't welcome the extra work of a 5 speed and just want to focus on not hjrting tne sheetmetal. If I was more hardcore then sure but I prefer a manual tranny in my sporty cars which doesn't translate the same in their automatic itinerations. Definetly want the control on the track.

 

[Snowy21]

Heel-toe. For some reason this seems to stay an unintended secret. Kind of like two-footing in an auto.

Consider modifying your brake and gas pedals. It's a huge help so you don't have to turn out your right foot so much.

I'll be interested to hear what you think in a couple of years since you started in an auto and now have a manual. Ha! maybe LD should start making modified gas and brake pedals to help out with heel-toe wheeling.

I've fiddled with my pedals already but I can't get them setup how I'd like for DD and crawling use. There is a lot of swing on the brake pedal that makes it tough compared to the STi I'm used to heel-toeing in. I lived and died by two foot driving in my auto...spent a lot of years racing karts so it was natural.

 

[lugueto]

Autos are better for mud and sand, and when youre going up a sequence of steps she will go up more composed, it will try to jump less.

I still prefer manual transmissions..