Master cylinder/brake booster problems and bleed question

dncrowell

New member
I just replaced the pads and rotors on my '98 4runner Limited V6 4WD and since the fluid was old and dirty and the old master cylinder was looking pretty tired (yellow and cracked reservoir), I decided to replace it as well. Pads and rotors were stupid easy to replace and the master cylinder was easy as well, but I ran into problems when it came time to bleed the system. I bench bled the master cylinder and bled the lines at all four wheels until I no longer saw bubbles but I still had a mushy pedal that would slowly sink to the floor with continued foot pressure. The calipers looked fine when I changed the pads and I inspected the rear brakes and everything looked to be in good shape. I bled the system two more times with no improvement. Finally I threw in the towel and took my 4runner to a brake shop to have it power bled, figuring there was still air in the system that I was just not getting using the old fashioned, DIY method. When they couldn't get good brake pressure either, they removed the master cylinder and found it was leaking at the rear seal into the brake booster. This brings me to my questions.

1) The master cylinder was a new one, not rebuilt, from Autozone. I can get it replaced no problem but do I now need to be concerned about the brake booster?

2) Since all that time spent bleeding the lines was to cure a problem I didn't have, is it even necessary to power bleed the lines, or if I have a properly functioning master cylinder, will bleeding the lines at home with a helper, the old fashioned way get the job done? The brake shops kept asking if my 4runner had an ABS system. It does, so does this make a power bleed necessary? The only other cars I've owned and worked on myself were all built before 1971 and the invention of ABS, so this is new to me.

Thanks in advance for any advice.
 
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I would put the old master cylinder back in. If it ain't broke don't fix it. They sell the reservoirs separately.

I doubt you've damaged you're booster, but I don't know much about brake boosters.
 
im thinking you just had a faulty part to start with.
you did it just the way you should have.
bench bleed
then bleed the lines starting from furthest working up to the closes (right rear, left rear, front right, front left).
it shouldn't matter if the vehicle is running (just help with pumping)

just be sure that fluid reservoir is always full and never empties out!!!
 
Between the master cylinder and the brake booster there is a strong rubber seal preventing atmospheric air to pass into the booster. There is no way you can get oil to pass into the brake booster. I have dealt with many cars with bad master cylinders and non of those had oil in the brake booster.

There is a big spring and a big diaphragm inside the booster. Diaphragm is attached to the brake pedal.

Don't worry about the booster. Do the master cylinder....


Again...Autozone....... not a way to go....

I always go by OEM toyota or low miles used toyota or finally NAPA
 

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Between the master cylinder and the brake booster there is a strong rubber seal preventing atmospheric air to pass into the booster. There is no way you can get oil to pass into the brake booster. I have dealt with many cars with bad master cylinders and non of those had oil in the brake booster.

There is a big spring and a big diaphragm inside the booster. Diaphragm is attached to the brake pedal.

Don't worry about the booster. Do the master cylinder....


Again...Autozone....... not a way to go....

I always go by OEM toyota or low miles used toyota or finally NAPA

Thanks for the picture! I'm totally a visual minded person so that explained everything as far as the booster is concerned. As for Autozone, I'll consider it a lesson learned. Since I've already paid for the thing and they'll replace it, I'll go ahead and give them one more chance. If the new master cylinder is DOA as well then I'll get my money back and go to the dealership. Thanks.
 
im thinking you just had a faulty part to start with.
you did it just the way you should have.
bench bleed
then bleed the lines starting from furthest working up to the closes (right rear, left rear, front right, front left).
it shouldn't matter if the vehicle is running (just help with pumping)

just be sure that fluid reservoir is always full and never empties out!!!

That's what I figured but it's been a long time since I worked my own vehicle and I wasn't sure if I was missing something with the ABS. Thanks for confirming what I was already thinking.
 
Hello, I know this post is old but I'm having the same problem. I started to feel like the brakes weren't engaging like they should so I replaced my pads & rotors with some ebc stage 3 green stuff pads & slotted rotors. The pedal continued to feel the same. Also did a 3 inch lift so I replaced the brakelines with steel braided extended lines. Pedal still felt spongy. Drove it for a few weeks & pedal felt worse & brake light started coming on sporadically, mostly while accelerating. I decided to get a new master cylinder from orileys, installed it yesterday & the pedal feels worse! I bench bled the master cylinder & bled the brake lines from farthest back to closest. Idk what it could be??? I'm getting frustrated & don't know what to do. I'm gonna try & bleed the lines extensively today & hope there is still some air in the lines. I'm starting to think it's the booster but how can you tell if it's bad?
 
One thing not noted in this thread is that brand of master cylinder makes a difference. Only use Aisin (Toyota OEM). I have had bad luck as well with parts store hydraulic parts. I just won’t touch them anymore.

Also, make sure rear brakes are adjusted well and bleed the crap out of the system. Get a tight fitting tube and put it into a jug of brake fluid and pump away. Follow the prescribed order. If you don’t have ABS then make sure to also bleed the LSPV.
 
One thing not noted in this thread is that brand of master cylinder makes a difference. Only use Aisin (Toyota OEM). I have had bad luck as well with parts store hydraulic parts. I just won’t touch them anymore.

Also, make sure rear brakes are adjusted well and bleed the crap out of the system. Get a tight fitting tube and put it into a jug of brake fluid and pump away. Follow the prescribed order. If you don’t have ABS then make sure to also bleed the LSPV.

LSPV??? what is that? I have a 97, I dont think i have abs
 
Hello, I know this post is old but I'm having the same problem. I started to feel like the brakes weren't engaging like they should so I replaced my pads & rotors with some ebc stage 3 green stuff pads & slotted rotors. The pedal continued to feel the same. Also did a 3 inch lift so I replaced the brakelines with steel braided extended lines. Pedal still felt spongy. Drove it for a few weeks & pedal felt worse & brake light started coming on sporadically, mostly while accelerating. I decided to get a new master cylinder from orileys, installed it yesterday & the pedal feels worse! I bench bled the master cylinder & bled the brake lines from farthest back to closest. Idk what it could be??? I'm getting frustrated & don't know what to do. I'm gonna try & bleed the lines extensively today & hope there is still some air in the lines. I'm starting to think it's the booster but how can you tell if it's bad?

Update!!!
ok so after replacing everything but the brake booster, I did the brake booster test by pumping my brakes with the car off until the pedal felt really stiff, then started my t4r and the pedal goes down, as it should with the assistance of the vacuum. So I ruled that out, and I read somewhere that the rear were self adjusting, however the little spur gear on the drive side was seized so I had to take off the drums and adjust them manually until i was barely able to slide the drums back on. Then after I performed the self adjusting procedure by driving in reverse and pulling the e-brake. I have been driving it for a few weeks now and haven't had any problems yet!
 

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