Mislabeled or faulty lift coils? *Saga*

[Mutant138]

Been chasing a weird rake for ages. Turns out I most likely have front coils which are much shorter then anticipated.

They are labeled as C59-302 - Stock front end load, 2.5" lift (or comfort option C59-448 for 3" lift). 395/395mm, 17mm

What I think I got was C59-238 - Stock front end, low height lift, 1.0"-1.25" lift. 375/375mm, 17mm wire, 586LB

During the process of chasing I was advised to try a 1” coil in the rear to try and tame the rake. It did a decent job.



But still about a factory rake. So, about that time I started looking at the front coils.

Stock hub to fender measurements 1engineer (kdss):
Front: 19.125”
Rear: 22.0”

My truck currently (kdss):
Front: 20.75” / 20.25”
Rear: 23” both sides

Updates:

After swapping front coils a second time and having them sit overnight:
22” maybe a little less drivers side.
21.5” passenger

After alignment and 20+ miles:
21.75" drivers maybe a little more
21.25" passenger maybe a little less

Hoping the only difference between those two sets of measurements is just me being more precise and not the coils settling.

I will keep adding measurements as time goes by.

Updates:

Updating the thread. Seems after 4-5 months on the setup the truck has settled on both sides by just a few mm. So a little less then 21.25” passenger and a little less then 21.75” driver. Which is what I would expect out of the coils.

I’m planning on adding front and rear bumpers/winch and possibly dropping the suspension another .5” all around when I get stiffer springs. Better cv angles and maybe a smidge easier to get in and out. Seat bolstering would be happy. It would be interesting to see if I get less leaning by fighting kdss less. No plans yet tho.

 

[Mutant138]

I have other things in my that need my time and energy. My body hurts just thinking about doing it all over again.

If I have a 1” lift the idea would be to cut my losses and leave it till it needs to be serviced.

 

[Mutant138]

 

[comtn4x4]

Been chasing a weird rake for ages. Turns out I most likely have front coils which are much shorter then anticipated.

They are labeled as C59-302 - Stock front end load, 2.5" lift (or comfort option C59-448 for 3" lift). 395/395mm, 17mm

What I think I got was C59-238 - Stock front end, low height lift, 1.0"-1.25" lift. 375/375mm, 17mm wire, 586LB

During the process of chasing I was advised to try a 1” coil in the rear to try and tame the rake. It did a decent job.

View attachment 353925

But still about a factory rake. So, about that time I started looking at the front coils.

Stock hub to fender measurements 1engineer (kdss):
Front: 19.125”
Rear: 22.0”

My truck currently (kdss):
Front: 20.75” / 20.25”
Rear: 23” both sides

I would assume it’s safe to say I was sent a 1”-1.25” spring for stock weight?

The coils measure 11” with everything on the ground. For the c59-238’s they give a measurement of 375mm which is 14 inches. Would two inches of compression make sense?

Should I measure coils per inch? Is that useful for anything?

A couple questions.
Is the free length of the coil actually shorter or is it just not providing enough lift?
So yes measuring the unloaded and loaded length of the coils is valuable although difficult
What weight is the coil supposed to be?
How long have you driven on the coils and what types of conditions.
I'm assuming front and rear coils were installed at the same time?
Is there a mechanical reason the rake needs to be adjusted sooner than later or is it an appearance thing? Rubbing etc.

 

[Mutant138]

A couple questions.
Is the free length of the coil actually shorter or is it just not providing enough lift?
So yes measuring the unloaded and loaded length of the coils is valuable although difficult
What weight is the coil supposed to be?
How long have you driven on the coils and what types of conditions.
I'm assuming front and rear coils were installed at the same time?
Is there a mechanical reason the rake needs to be adjusted sooner than later or is it an appearance thing? Rubbing etc.

Idk what you mean about the free length tbh. I’m not taking it apart so all I can get rn is the 11” they sit at loaded. The other numbers I provided are from Dobinsons.

The problem is I ordered a 2.5” lift up front but I’m only getting and inch of lift. I’m trying to determine if they mislabeled the coil from the factory.

I provided all the measurements from Dobinsons for the two springs I’m talking about.

Front coils have been on since October ish. Been off-roading maybe 3 times nothing crazy. Couldn’t get it aligned properly so I tried to stay off the road. I just swapped the tears a week or two ago at the suggestion of mike.

There is no reason for me to fix the rake. I’m just trying to properly lift my truck. In fact my original lift choice was supposed to retain some rake. I only got ocd about it when my truck looked like it was doing yoga and couldn’t get good alignment numbers.

The lift I ordered was:

c59302 2.5” front lift

C59-723 - Stock rear end, 1.5" with 3rd row, 1.75" lift without, offset height coils for KDSS leveling. 420/405mm, 17mm wire, 228LB

 

[Mutant138]

How much money I have invested in trying to do a simple lift. Not to mention wear and tear on my tires, alignments, and time.

 

[Mutant138]

If anyone asks Dobinsons is going Warrantee the front coils and provide me a shipping label so they can figure out how they screwed up. They will not refund me for the 599’s unless I ships them at my own expense. Mikey is not apart of dobinsons usa he is merely a vendor. So me asking him for advice carries no weight with dobinsons usa. I didn't realize that. Hence no refund.

I’m not looking to waste more time and money ripping my truck apart a third time and mailing coils across the country. So, the sooner I can figure out if I’m safe to run these coils the sooner I can move on.

 

[Jivewalker]

I think you are going to have to unbolt the KDSS bracket, lower the LCA and measure one of those and compare it to the cut sheet on the spring you ordered. Don't know how else you could confirm anything if you don't trust the label. Sucks, but at least you shouldn't have to remove the spring to decompress it. And, you need an alignment anyway.

 

[Mutant138]

I think you are going to have to unbolt the KDSS bracket, lower the LCA and measure one of those and compare it to the cut sheet on the spring you ordered. Don't know how else you could confirm anything if you don't trust the label. Sucks, but at least you shouldn't have to remove the spring to decompress it. And, you need an alignment anyway.

Yeah I’m trying to avoid that.

How caN I trust the label if the label says I should have 2.5” inch of lift which I very clearly do not have. Clear in the pic as well as my measurements.

Yes I know I need an alignment. I’m on my third now trying to clean up after Dobinsons.

 

[comtn4x4]

Idk what you mean about the free length tbh. I’m not taking it apart so all I can get rn is the 11” they sit at loaded. The other numbers I provided are from Dobinsons.

The problem is I ordered a 2.5” lift up front but I’m only getting and inch of lift. I’m trying to determine if they mislabeled the coil from the factory.

I provided all the measurements from Dobinsons for the two springs I’m talking about.

Front coils have been on since October ish. Been off-roading maybe 3 times nothing crazy. Couldn’t get it aligned properly so I tried to stay off the road. I just swapped the tears a week or two ago at the suggestion of mike.

There is no reason for me to fix the rake. I’m just trying to properly lift my truck. In fact my original lift choice was supposed to retain some rake. I only got ocd about it when my truck looked like it was doing yoga and couldn’t get good alignment numbers.

The lift I ordered was:

c59302 2.5” front lift

C59-723 - Stock rear end, 1.5" with 3rd row, 1.75" lift without, offset height coils for KDSS leveling. 420/405mm, 17mm wire, 228LB

Then mike in Dobinsons didn’t catch the problem and recommended I spend another $220 on the 1” spring for the rear.

Sorry Free Length is unloaded length. I believe our coils are 14" coils but don't quote me on it. 11" compressed seems pretty short or really soft.
I'm assuming you have your factory coils, you could reference those.
Seems like they are mislabeled or they are not preforming as advertised.
Adjustable coil overs would aide in adjustment however that's moot as you don't have them.
Your rear coils are probably still settling, Mine took a couple months to settle each time I've changed them. Loading the rig up and driving it helps to get them so settle. I'd try to let them settle before you do to much. That why I asked if it is a mechanical issue.
If I understand the information on the Dobinson's post correctly the coils you ordered (Not necessarily what you have) are a 586# coil. (586# to compress one inch) Stock IIRC is 550#(Maybe 600#?). In order to provide additional lift over stock the coil either would have to be longer or stiffer or both.
From what I have read and my experience in order to get 2.5" lift on a stock rig most people (and myself) went to a 650# coil of stock length. (Some use 600#) This would also accommodate additional light loads on the front end or to the overall rig. When I upgraded to a full front bumper/winch etc etc I went to a 700#x14" coil from a 650#x14" coil

All this being said, I am no expert.
On a separate note I have found that getting the height and performance exactly where you want can be a bit of an exercise in trial and error.

 

[Anand]

Idk what you mean about the free length tbh. I’m not taking it apart so all I can get rn is the 11” they sit at loaded.

Free length = length with no load and off the truck. Once they are compressed and on the truck the only way to actually calculate this would be to know the exact amount of sprung weight on that coil (using corner weighting scales minus unsprung weight on that side or on the axle) and then you could figure out the theoretical amount of compression based on the spring rate.

The only way to truly know the free length or to know exactly what spring it is (if you don't believe the tag), is to remove it from the truck (and from the strut) and measure it.

 

[Mutant138]

Sorry Free Length is unloaded length. I believe our coils are 14" coils but don't quote me on it. 11" compressed seems pretty short or really soft.
I'm assuming you have your factory coils, you could reference those.
Seems like they are mislabeled or they are not preforming as advertised.
Adjustable coil overs would aide in adjustment however that's moot as you don't have them.
Your rear coils are probably still settling, Mine took a couple months to settle each time I've changed them. Loading the rig up and driving it helps to get them so settle. I'd try to let them settle before you do to much. That why I asked if it is a mechanical issue.
If I understand the information on the Dobinson's post correctly the coils you ordered (Not necessarily what you have) are a 586# coil. (586# to compress one inch) Stock IIRC is 550#(Maybe 600#?). In order to provide additional lift over stock the coil either would have to be longer or stiffer or both.
From what I have read and my experience in order to get 2.5" lift on a stock rig most people (and myself) went to a 650# coil of stock length. (Some use 600#) This would also accommodate additional light loads on the front end or to the overall rig. When I upgraded to a full front bumper/winch etc etc I went to a 700#x14" coil from a 650#x14" coil

All this being said, I am no expert.
On a separate note I have found that getting the height and performance exactly where you want can be a bit of an exercise in trial and error.

I think you have it backwards.

c59-238’s they give a measurement of 375mm which is 14 inches.
C59-302 give a measurement of 395mm which is 15.5 inches.

So assuming my 302’s are actually 238’s at 14” free length Does two inches of compression with stock load at 11” really seem crazy?


And just again at this point I could take or leave the 2.5” lift I just want my truck aligned so I can actually use it and try to recoup my losses.

 

[Mutant138]

Free length = length with no load and off the truck. Once they are compressed and on the truck the only way to actually calculate this would be to know the exact amount of sprung weight on that coil (using corner weighting scales minus unsprung weight on that side or on the axle) and then you could figure out the theoretical amount of compression based on the spring rate.

The only way to truly know the free length or to know exactly what spring it is (if you don't believe the tag), is to remove it from the truck (and from the strut) and measure it.

F**k me

 

[Jivewalker]

so you have 1.65" in front and 1" in rear. Are the tires stock size since you are measuring tire to wheel well? Is 1engineer same tires? I might be able to understand a slight discrepancy in the front, but not the rear. dis you measure with your tires on before the lift also? Just trying to help you troubleshoot.

 

[Mutant138]

so you have 1.65" in front and 1" in rear. Are the tires stock size since you are measuring tire to wheel well? Is 1engineer same tires? I might be able to understand a slight discrepancy in the front, but not the rear. dis you measure with your tires on before the lift also? Just trying to help you troubleshoot.

These are hub to fender measurements.

We are not talking about the rear. Everything adds up back there.

I get that I appreciate it. Thank you.

 

[Jivewalker]

These are hub to fender measurements.

.

obviously i need to hit the coffee pot...or the stoli.

 

[comtn4x4]

I think you have it backwards.

c59-238’s they give a measurement of 375mm which is 14 inches.
C59-302 give a measurement of 395mm which is 15.5 inches.

So assuming my 302’s are actually 238’s at 14” free length Does two inches of compression with stock load at 11” really seem crazy?


And just again at this point I could take or leave the 2.5” lift I just want my truck aligned so I can actually use it and try to recoup my losses since Dobinsons seems unconcerned.

yes you're right about the length. 11" could be right at 14" (3" compression) however from 15.5" is seems a lot. My front coils compressed are 11.5" however there's nothing apples to apples about our setups

Sorry about all the headache this is causing.

The link below is from Wheeler's as a point of reference

EIBACH 14" COIL SPRING PAIR FOR 2.5" COILOVERS

 

[Mutant138]

yes you're right about the length. 11" could be right at 14" (3" compression) however from 15.5" is seems a lot. My front coils compressed are 11.5" however there's nothing apples to apples about our setups

Sorry about all the headache this is causing.

The link below is from Wheeler's as a point of reference

EIBACH 14" COIL SPRING PAIR FOR 2.5" COILOVERS

If they are intact 302’a they are garbage for sure. Glad we are on the same page here. I almost feel like I would have noticed the coils collapsing when I give it some over a bump or whoop. But, this is my first modified truck so idk.

Don’t be sorry. Dobinsons is the one who is costing me tons of money and wear and tear on my body/truck.

 

[nimby]

Stock hub to fender measurements 1engineer (kdss):
Front: 19.125”
Rear: 22.0”

The rear height looks good to me, but are we sure 19.125" is the correct stock front measurement in the first place?

That would mean the front is nearly 3" lower than the back......which shouldn't be the case. All you should need to get the front and rear hub to fender measurements level is 1.75" of lift in the front.

 

[Mutant138]

The rear height looks good to me, but are we sure 19.125" is the correct stock front measurement in the first place?

That would mean the front is nearly 3" lower than the back......which shouldn't be the case. All you should need to get the front and rear hub to fender measurements level is 1.75" of lift in the front.

Gotta remember the fenders are higher in the rear from the factory. Frame level they are offset too.

Pretty sure those are accurate #’s.

Not trying to level my fenders. Just trying to see what’s up with my front coils. But thanks.