Modifications you regret

[comtn4x4]

I'm looking at the Extreme LED X6S bar now (38"). Other than the rusting brackets/bolts and mid-tier power, did you find any other problems with it? I planned on making my own brackets and replacing everything with stainless hardware anyway.

It's the only bar (at my desired price point) with a small enough profile to tuck into my front fairing neatly. The fairing also has a little lip in front that the bar can tuck behind. I'm hoping that this will mitigate wind noise and hood glare, which seem to be the only complaints about roof mounted lighting. Any other advice you can share?

And I'd love the performance of a Rigid or Baja Designs, but I just can't justify that price point. Especially for something so easy to steal.

The quality of the Extreme LED bar is overall much lower than for example Baja Designs or Rigid. I had all three and some older Lifetime Leds side by side recently and there is a world of difference. (I had the cases open also) The lenses, cases everything is much higher quality on the Baja Designs and Rigid. And honestly the Lifetime Leds are a better quality product IMHO than the Extreme Led.
This is obviously all opinion but for me the higher quality light makes more sense with one caveat: the light needs to see actual regular use. The build quality and life of the light is so much longer I'd rather buy once. I'm on the second round of lights on my rig and switching from my original Lifetime Leds it would have been nice to be able to repair rather than replace.
As far as cost goes, if you aren't looking for a specific size of light to fit a specific area, I believe you can get a similar actual light output from a smaller light in the higher end light products. For example I'll be switching from a 30" light bar to a 20" with the same lumens ( Manufacturer stated output not actual) for about 50% more cost.
Also being more realistic in my needs for lighting has been helpful. For example I have realized that a roof rack mounted light bar is virtually worthless in real world situations. I realize the cool factor is lost but cool is expensive!

 

[coffenut]

I’ve owned 5 over the years and I got tired of the weight and rack space being taken up by the tent. They are nice to have but I went back to ground tent and couldn’t be happier. It’s definitely become a fad.

LOL ... I just haven't figured out how to get my Golden Retriever up on a rooftop tent. <G>

 

[mynameistory]

The quality of the Extreme LED bar is overall much lower than for example Baja Designs or Rigid. I had all three and some older Lifetime Leds side by side recently and there is a world of difference. (I had the cases open also) The lenses, cases everything is much higher quality on the Baja Designs and Rigid. And honestly the Lifetime Leds are a better quality product IMHO than the Extreme Led.
This is obviously all opinion but for me the higher quality light makes more sense with one caveat: the light needs to see actual regular use. The build quality and life of the light is so much longer I'd rather buy once. I'm on the second round of lights on my rig and switching from my original Lifetime Leds it would have been nice to be able to repair rather than replace.
As far as cost goes, if you aren't looking for a specific size of light to fit a specific area, I believe you can get a similar actual light output from a smaller light in the higher end light products. For example I'll be switching from a 30" light bar to a 20" with the same lumens ( Manufacturer stated output not actual) for about 50% more cost.
Also being more realistic in my needs for lighting has been helpful. For example I have realized that a roof rack mounted light bar is virtually worthless in real world situations. I realize the cool factor is lost but cool is expensive!

I fully understand and appreciate that I won't be getting BD quality for a fifth of the price. My first requirement is that the light fits where intended- not length but cross-section dimensions. If it doesn't fit, I won't use it no matter what quality. The extreme is one of the few smaller bars that will fit where I need it to (heck, most brands don't even post dimensions).

I still plan on rack mounting because I won't find myself on very technical trails, especially after dark. If I'm on the trail at night it's usually an access road or desert fireroad, looking for camp. I've already upgraded my lows, highs, and fogs to LED and I'm very happy with output below the hood. I think an ambient light will fill in the gaps and scenery above that line.

 

[brtnstrns]

LOL ... I just haven't figured out how to get my Golden Retriever up on a rooftop tent. <G>

That's definitely in the top three reasons why I would not go to a RTT.

 

[edgesalon]

very useful information here thanks to everyone's input my list off things that i wanted just got a lot smaller :lol::lol:

 

[mynameistory]

I almost bought the Extreme for my lo-pro C4 bumper, but ended up with a bar from CaliRaised (they are on the forum also). Price was very similar at first glance, but CaliRaised price includes brackets, wiring, and shipping. Signing up for their email list also gets you 5% off, and their light was brighter. Just throwing it out there.

I'll take a look around, thanks! I planned on doing my own brackets and harnessing anyway to keep the light very low profile and easy to disconnect.

 

[mynameistory]

I'll take a look around, thanks! I planned on doing my own brackets and harnessing anyway to keep the light very low profile and easy to disconnect.

Don't think I'll go with either Cali or Lifetime. None of the profiles are small enough to fit with the exception of the micro 3W bulb bar from Lifetime. And Cali only offers a 2 year warranty, while lights from Extreme/Lifetime are... well, lifetime.

This is a topic for another thread. Back onto regretful mods!

 

[SteadFAST 4Runner]

RTT is just a fad. An expensive one at that.

Guys are literally paying over $2000 for a tent that they might use 12 times a year (props if you use it more than that)

BUT they sleep on a bed that needs to be replaced that is at least 10 years old every night.

 

[REDDY_KILOW4TT]

I'm in the market for upgrading my suspension. I feel like I should either with this budget build:
Bilstein B8 6112
Revtek Differential Drop Spacer Kit
OME Rear Coil Springs (Heavy)
Bilstein 5100 Series Rear Shocks (10+ 4Runner & FJ Cruiser)
SPC Adjustable Upper Control Arms

Or go big with the King Complete Kit for twice as much. What to do!?

I just want a nice ride on and off road. I live in Utah and will be enjoying some light to medium off roading, hunting, camping and maybe a little novice rock crawling. This vehicle is my daily driver.

 

[mscot]

I'm in the market for upgrading my suspension. I feel like I should either with this budget build:
Bilstein B8 6112
Revtek Differential Drop Spacer Kit
OME Rear Coil Springs (Heavy)
Bilstein 5100 Series Rear Shocks (10+ 4Runner & FJ Cruiser)
SPC Adjustable Upper Control Arms

Or go big with the King Complete Kit for twice as much. What to do!?

I just want a nice ride on and off road. I live in Utah and will be enjoying some light to medium off roading, hunting, camping and maybe a little novice rock crawling. This vehicle is my daily driver.

I think you're looking at it the right way. It's really down to what you want to deal with and pay for. Are you ok with rebuilding every 40k-60k miles and are you good with the cost of the Kings. If not on either, you have your decision.

 

[REDDY_KILOW4TT]

I think you're looking at it the right way. It's really down to what you want to deal with and pay for. Are you ok with rebuilding every 40k-60k miles and are you good with the cost of the Kings. If not on either, you have your decision.

I didn't realize you have to rebuild suspension after only 50k mile. I'm slowly learning!

So do Kings require being rebuilt? How come stock suspension never needs to be rebuilt (at least for several years anyway)?

 

[MAST4R]

I didn't realize you have to rebuild suspension after only 50k mile. I'm slowly learning!

So do Kings require being rebuilt? How come stock suspension never needs to be rebuilt (at least for several years anyway)?

I have been doing my homework lately, so on paper it goes like this:

--you have use-and-throw shocks, from very cheap to the 6112/5160 which seems to be the best of this kind in terms of performance. Depending on OEM quality and vehicle use, the shocks can last well upward of 100,000 miles.

--then you have performance shocks, which are serviceable and rebuild-able, some more easily than others. These are in a whole different league with significant variations between designs, but they all provide much more dampening than any use-and-throw shocks underneath the 6112/5160.

Performance shocks use, normally, spherical bearings instead of rubber bushings, which is one part that is frequently replaced. They often have exposed shock rods. When these get hit by rocks, they eventually lose their polish and when that happens they start destroying the seals inside the shock.
Second, if you use monotube shocks, which offroad performance shocks are, outside their parameters, they build very high pressures, which harden and weaken seals.

If you are not willing to rebuild performance shocks yourself, you will be paying around 100/shock locally. If you need to ship them, budget shipping and a lot of downtime.

So, a misused or abused performance shock can leak not long after install whereas a well-treated one is supposed to last 35-40,000 or more miles between rebuilds with offroading. Fox will give you very conservative estimates (frequent rebuilds) whereas others don't have any set period and suggest properly used shocks should last way more than 40k between rebuilds. But, again, proper installation, match with spring height, shaft protection, and use will all play a part.

Further factor affecting longevity include rod hardness and finish, quality of the seals, design of the seals and so on and so forth.

If you are not willing to learn the fine print, I think you would be better off staying with 6112s or regular shocks.

Speaking of the 6112/5100 this is a common combo but the 5100 are much too weak for the 6112 so if you intend to use the 6112 to potential, you will need another rear shock like the 5160 or Icon 2.0 or even Fox 2.0 (different valving but many use it successfully with 6112).

EDIT: as for myself, I am exploring pairing the 6112, which is durable and capable shock, with a linear rear shock as I am not convinced by the 5160 and rear shocks would be far easier to service and deal with than front ones. So I am trying to see if I can get the best of both worlds.

 

[comtn4x4]

I didn't realize you have to rebuild suspension after only 50k mile. I'm slowly learning!

So do Kings require being rebuilt? How come stock suspension never needs to be rebuilt (at least for several years anyway)?

The stock shocks are not rebuild-able, they would have to be replaced. Many other more affordable shocks are similar.
Higher end "Race" shocks can be rebuilt. (King, Fox, Icon Radflo etc.) The frequency would depend on a number of factors. If you are off road a lot in harsh conditions the rebuild cycle could be shorter. If it's a mall crawler it could be longer.
Environmental factors can also shorten the life of the shocks, causing pitting or corroding the bodies. It's a good idea to wash them off frequently in the winter after salt or chemical has been used on the roads

 

[REDDY_KILOW4TT]

I have been doing my homework lately, so on paper it goes like this:

--you have use-and-throw shocks, from very cheap to the 6112/5160 which seems to be the best of this kind in terms of performance. Depending on OEM quality and vehicle use, the shocks can last well upward of 100,000 miles.

--then you have performance shocks, which are serviceable and rebuild-able, some more easily than others. These are in a whole different league with significant variations between designs, but they all provide much more dampening than any use-and-throw shocks underneath the 6112/5160.

Performance shocks use, normally, spherical bearings instead of rubber bushings, which is one part that is frequently replaced. They often have exposed shock rods. When these get hit by rocks, they eventually lose their polish and when that happens they start destroying the seals inside the shock.
Second, if you use monotube shocks, which offroad performance shocks are, outside their parameters, they build very high pressures, which harden and weaken seals.

If you are not willing to rebuild performance shocks yourself, you will be paying around 100/shock locally. If you need to ship them, budget shipping and a lot of downtime.

So, a misused or abused performance shock can leak not long after install whereas a well-treated one is supposed to last 35-40,000 or more miles between rebuilds with offroading. Fox will give you very conservative estimates (frequent rebuilds) whereas others don't have any set period and suggest properly used shocks should last way more than 40k between rebuilds. But, again, proper installation, match with spring height, shaft protection, and use will all play a part.

Further factor affecting longevity include rod hardness and finish, quality of the seals, design of the seals and so on and so forth.

If you are not willing to learn the fine print, I think you would be better off staying with 6112s or regular shocks.

Speaking of the 6112/5100 this is a common combo but the 5100 are much too weak for the 6112 so if you intend to use the 6112 to potential, you will need another rear shock like the 5160 or Icon 2.0 or even Fox 2.0 (different valving but many use it successfully with 6112).

EDIT: as for myself, I am exploring pairing the 6112, which is durable and capable shock, with a linear rear shock as I am not convinced by the 5160 and rear shocks would be far easier to service and deal with than front ones. So I am trying to see if I can get the best of both worlds.

Great info! I'm learning so much today about suspension but at the same time it's creating more questions than answers for me.

Basically, I just want something that rides nice on/off road and will lift me high enough to fit 285 BFG KO2's.

 

[MAST4R]

Great info! I'm learning so much today about suspension but at the same time it's creating more questions than answers for me.

Basically, I just want something that rides nice on/off road and will lift me high enough to fit 285 BFG KO2's.

Well, yeah, the devil's in what you mean by a nice ride on/off road. At the end, one needs to try. I have been reading all I could find most evenings for like a month lol. There is no one-size-fits-all answer.

As for the lift, you don't need to reach the sky for 285s and staying at 2" or under has a ton of benefits.

You also don't need 285s to get on the same trails as the people with 285s but many people like the look and that part is 100% subjective so no comments on that. But there are many functional advantages in staying with 265 or going 275 55.

 

[ayeyothisiskyle]

Great info! I'm learning so much today about suspension but at the same time it's creating more questions than answers for me.

Basically, I just want something that rides nice on/off road and will lift me high enough to fit 285 BFG KO2's.

You will still need to do modifications to bumpers/mudflaps and to some point body mounts with 285 KO2s. Every 4runner has slight differences when lifting and adding wheels/tires. I suggest searching all the wheel and tire threads on that note.

With suspension, you really need to take into account the cost vs the usage. Is $2700-3000 worth the high end shocks vs the amount of times you will actually use them offroad? Or will the cheaper solution provide you with adequate perfomance offroad + on road. Search other threads specific to billys, kings, fox, icon (dont get icon), radflo, ome, dobinsons. Theres a lot.

Also, use google as opposed to the forum's search, its usually better IME. Put this in the search bar:
"[search terms/questions aka query] site:https://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs"

 

[mcox522]

RTT is just a fad. An expensive one at that.



Guys are literally paying over $2000 for a tent that they might use 12 times a year (props if you use it more than that)



BUT they sleep on a bed that needs to be replaced that is at least 10 years old every night.

Do you have a RTT? Just curious because if you do maybe you got a bad one. I spent 1300 for it and honestly the mattress is very comfortable, more than sleeping on the ground and mattress. I have ground tent camped all my life and don't think I could go back now after having a RTT. Admittedly though, I don't use it as much as I would like.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

[REDDY_KILOW4TT]

You will still need to do modifications to bumpers/mudflaps and to some point body mounts with 285 KO2s. Every 4runner has slight differences when lifting and adding wheels/tires. I suggest searching all the wheel and tire threads on that note.

With suspension, you really need to take into account the cost vs the usage. Is $2700-3000 worth the high end shocks vs the amount of times you will actually use them offroad? Or will the cheaper solution provide you with adequate perfomance offroad + on road. Search other threads specific to billys, kings, fox, icon (dont get icon), radflo, ome, dobinsons. Theres a lot.

Also, use google as opposed to the forum's search, its usually better IME. Put this in the search bar:
"[search terms/questions aka query] site:https://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs"

Seems to be tons of conflicting reports on what you have to do to run 285's. Some people say you need a 3'' lift and will still have to do body chopping. Others say 2'' is plenty and you don't have to trim a thing.

Seems like a simple straight forward scenario but apparently not.

 

[epjfsa]

The stock shocks are not rebuild-able, they would have to be replaced. Many other more affordable shocks are similar.
Higher end "Race" shocks can be rebuilt. (King, Fox, Icon Radflo etc.) The frequency would depend on a number of factors. If you are off road a lot in harsh conditions the rebuild cycle could be shorter. If it's a mall crawler it could be longer.
Environmental factors can also shorten the life of the shocks, causing pitting or corroding the bodies. It's a good idea to wash them off frequently in the winter after salt or chemical has been used on the roads

I'm not sure if people really internalize this, but the fact they are rebuildable is great -- so long as you can deal with your vehicle sitting on jackstands for two-plus weeks while they're out being rebuilt. This is one of the big reasons I went back to quasai-stock on my M3. Of course, this is a non-issue if you can rebuild them yourself.

 

[comtn4x4]

I'm not sure if people really internalize this, but the fact they are rebuildable is great -- so long as you can deal with your vehicle sitting on jackstands for two-plus weeks while they're out being rebuilt. This is one of the big reasons I went back to quasai-stock on my M3. Of course, this is a non-issue if you can rebuild them yourself.

Or keep another set of shocks/coilovers to put on temporarily. I kept my old coils and shocks to use when I send mine to get rebuilt