Moisture in headlights???

[Shamish]

So I just got my new TE home, and was staring at it when I noticed a band of condensation (about 2" long and 1/4" wide) in one of the corners of the headlamp. The other headlamp also has a small patch of condensation near the "orange" part of the lenz. I sure do not remember this on my last 4Runner (2010 SR5). Is this normal?

I am going to go back to the dealer and ask them to look at this tomorrow, but any input from you all would be appreciated!

 

[Jono.ful]

:worthless
It's certainly possible, but having just done a retrofit I can tell you the reflectors are sealed pretty well from the factory. Did you check to make sure the bulbs seated properly?

 

[Shamish]

Here's photos of the moisture.

 

[harper7]

Here's photos of the moisture.

Definitely not normal. See if a dealer will warranty them.

 

[Jono.ful]

^what he said

 

[Shamish]

I e-mailed the dealer, and they got back to me quickly. They asked me to come over so they can verify the concern. Since the headlights were not foggy when I got there (the heat from the engine had evaporated all of the condensation), we put a couple of ice cubes on the tops of the headlamps to bring the moisture out of the air and onto the inside of the lenzes. Sure enough, it showed up.

Then, we tried the same thing on the tail-lights - sure enough, some light condensation showed up. The dealer said he had the OK to replace everything, but wondered out loud if the lights were vented (which I am sure they are not since the venting would contaminate the reflector). Anyway, he is going to order new head/tail lights, and call me when they are in.

Has anyone performed the ice cube test to see what happens? If this condensation in the lights is normal, I don't want to push it.

 

[Jono.ful]

If this condensation in the lights is normal, I don't want to push it.

A) definitely not normal b) why not? It's a free set of brand new lights that should rrectify the problem

 

[Jtraskell]

Shamish, it all depends on relative humidity, ambient temperature and how tight your lights are "sealed". I will try to be brief, but I will not succeed.

And if I am preaching to the choir, please forgive me.

I may be wrong, but I do not think our vehicle light fixtures are air tight. There are enough "leaks" so to speak to let the immediate air, whatever the humidity level, in and out of the light fixtures. (I think)

In saying that, know this. The higher the ambient air temperature, the more moisture (water in vaporized form aka "humidity") can be mixed within the air without "condensing". The lower the temp, the denser the air and moisture has to go. As the air gets "denser" because of lower temp, it is like squeezing a sponge. The reaction is called "Condensation". You have probably heard the term "Dew Point"? This is what the weather folks are talking about.

Our headlights are a perfect example. Let's say that during the day just before you headlights showed condensation within, the ambient temperature was 80 degrees and your area had a relative humidity of say 60%. (This is just an example).. That night, the temp dropped to 50 degrees. The air inside you headlights also dropped to the same temperature. The problem is, the "air" inside your headlights (as well as everywhere around you), can only hold 20% humidity at 50%, thus some of the humidity has to come out of the air in the form of condensation.

Again, this is just an example. There are charts which can show the exact temp/moisture combinations which indicate dew points.

The point I am trying to make is that unless your ambient air temp was below freezing with a very low humidity level, placing ice cubes on our headlights or taillight will in fact, produce condensation.....this test is, IMHO not a valid test. Just like taking a glass of ice water and placing it in your air conditioned house, you will get condensation on the glass!

If Toyota really thinks our headlights are supposed to be hermetically sealed in a vacuum, well that is a different story. But I doubt this is the case.

Just sayin bud. New lights all around will not survive the ice cube test.....be safe.

 

[Eagle]

I have not done an ice cube test, but I'll try to remember to try that out sometime.

I've seen somethign similar to that on my lights... it's not nearly as bad as yours, but it looks like some small fogging / condensation on the inside of the tops of th headlights. I initially thought it might be related to the headlight oxidation TSB issue, but it is absolutely on the inside of the light and not something external.

I'd be interested in hearing what happens with getting yours replaced.

 

[Shamish]

So the dealer called back and said that Toyota said that the lights are vented. This sounded wierd, but I guess they "vent" when one takes the socket out to put a new bulb in it...

I went down to our parking garage and found a couple of 4Rs (one belongs to my officer...I hope no one tells her I was prowling around her vehicle) and performed the ice cube test, and some condensation showed up...

And I did appreciate the science lesson (seriously - I mean it). I was aware of most of the information, but I had, to be honest, overlooked the fact that the housing would vent when someone went to perform a bulb replacement.

I will just keep an eye on things for a few months and see what happens. If this is an issue, I have 3/36 to get it resolved.

 

[Shamish]

Got home and the fog was even worse (it was raining on the way home). Another call to the dealer...

...does anyone know if these headlights are vented? I figure one of you guys who have taken the housings out of the vehicle would know for sure!

Thanks...this is a bit frustrating but this too shall pass!

 

[Kraeken]

My replacement TSB headlights got some condensation a couple of weeks ago, after I washed it from the camping trip. A little fog in the top of one of the headlights, went away after a little while, haven't noticed it since.

 

[20034RunnerV84x2]

If you run the engine to where it gets to normal operating temp, and dump a bucket of cold water on it, it will steam. The steam will enter the headlights if it is not sealed correctly. If you turn on the brights and headlights, it will get hot and everything will evaporate. Everything is normal, just be sure the bulbs are in tight and straight, where nothing is crooked or in a bind. It will eventually evaporate.

 

[Shamish]

So today I get up and I have frost on the insides of the lenses. So I went to another dealer. They verified the concern, ordered some new headlight assembles, and plan to install them next week sometime.

 

[Jtraskell]

Yea, that is way toooooo much moisture getting in there. Hope the replacements work out for you. Was there frost in the rear light too?

 

[Shamish]

So I notice on page 575 of my owner's manual that condensation on the insides of the headlight is normal...wierd, but Toyota knows their product better than I do.

Anyhoo...the dealer calls the next day and says the new headlights are here, so I went and got them installed. I took a look at the housings are not vented, but I do see that the lenses are fastened to the "buckets" with screws. I suppose it's possible that the gasket could have been defective, but then again, mayble all of this was just normal.

Anyway, I will keep an eye on the new headlights and see what happens.