More stealership woes (tire road force balance)

[ghostridr]

A few days ago I scheduled an appointment to have my tires "road forced" balance after being informed by firestone that my caster bolts where seized when having my alignment done. While dropping off my truck to Key Jennings Toyota in Springfield, VA; I relayed what firestone said about the seized bolts and to have them look at that, then inform me before I would authorize any repairs. 4hrs later without any updates during that time (was told earlier that the balance would take 1 1/2 hrs). Service adviser informed me that my right LCA needed to be replaced and my truck was unsafe to drive. I also noticed on the invoice that I needed an alignment along with notes about no service being done.

I get in my truck and while driving home dash VSC, ABS, etc.. lights come on and I noticed my steering wheel alignment was off 30 degrees to the right/passenger side and noticed my steering was very wonking and thought they messed something up in my alignment; Got home to reset the lights and noticed my positive battery connection terminal cover was not in it's usual place (uncovered).

After notating these things, I called and informed the service dept what had happened to my truck and was told I would be charged $50+ just to have it looked at, escalated this issue to someone higher and was told they'd call me next day after investigating why a 1.5hr balance took 4+hrs which ended up with my truck being unsafe to drive. Never happened....

Scheduled to have my alignment done again with firestone only having it done a week prior. Thank got I have the free lifetime alignment with firestone (money well spent)!

On a positive note, my tires are perfectly balanced now and no more speed wobbles at 55-65mph in steering wheel and cost me about $90 just in case anyone wants to know.

/end rant

Questions - Could toyota have ruined my LCA trying to removed the seized caster bolts or is this them to being lazy and trying to up sale me on new LCAs because they don't want to re-align my steering?

How do I know my LCA are ruined? Any signs to look for during an inspection of the LCAs to find out they do need replacing?

Thanks in advanced!

 

[HokieRunner]

Questions - Could toyota have ruined my LCA trying to removed the seized caster bolts or is this them to being lazy and trying to up sale me on new LCAs because they don't want to re-align my steering?

How do I know my LCA are ruined? Any signs to look for during an inspection of the LCAs to find out they do need replacing?

Thanks in advanced!

I highly doubt Toyota could have messed up the LCA themselves. Could the bushings and/or cams be messed up? Yes. But the arms themselves would still be good.

I'd check the cam alignment tabs and bolts to see if they all look straight. check the bushing condition (use a pry bar to see if there's any play in the bushing if it looks worn/deteriorated). I know mine was long gone.

If the bolts are frozen you'll either have to try pb blast/heat and hope that frees them or cut them off and get new cam parts through the dealer. If the bushing is shot your choices are to get new arms (come with new bushings and new ball joint) or get the old bushing pressed out and new ones pressed in. Other bushing option is to replace with poly bushings (it's quite a process). Zachattack did a nice writeup on it in his build thread.

If you need any help with checking it out I work in Fairfax and live in Herndon area. Let us know what you find!

 

[Xenogen]

Just take it to Ducmonsta's shop

 

[ghostridr]

Thanks Hokie!

I'll check the cam tabs/bolts and bushings to see if there's anything out of the norm.

When the service adviser said that my truck was "unsafe" to drive, what are the worst/best case scenarios inferred by that statement in terms of daily operation? Will my LCAs fall out while driving down the road?

Also, after having my truck re-aligned, spec sheet showed my left toe being way out of spec., but they rectified that matter, so the steering seems fine now. If all looks ok with the LCAs bolts/bushings aside from the seized cam bolts, would my LCAs be ok for normal driving for the time being?

 

[HokieRunner]

Thanks Hokie!

I'll check the cam tabs/bolts and bushings to see if there's anything out of the norm.

When the service adviser said that my truck was "unsafe" to drive, what are the worst/best case scenarios inferred by that statement in terms of daily operation? Will my LCAs fall out while driving down the road?

Also, after having my truck re-aligned, spec sheet showed my left toe being way out of spec., but they rectified that matter, so the steering seems fine now. If all looks ok with the LCAs bolts/bushings aside from the seized cam bolts, would my LCAs be ok for normal driving for the time being?

Yeh, should be quickly evident if anything's amiss. If you have any concerns, post up a few pics. Maybe call the dealer back and ask specifically 'what is unsafe about the vehicle? what specific part is failing?'. I'm sure Firestone would have said something if there was an issue. Of course, there's no substitute for taking it to a good shop to have it checked out so if you have any doubt - might be worth it.

Sounds like the service advisor was blowing smoke to scare you into some service. A seized cam or alignment bolt usually just prevents a good alignment but if they were able to get you in spec...should be fine. I'm sure a ton of the 4Runners and other Toyota trucks rolling around have them. There's a long history of this issue in current and prior gens. The only time it's going to become a problem is when the seized cams prevent a good alignment or it's time to pull the LCA for new bushings, etc. I ended up cutting mine off a few weeks ago due to this issue.

 

[LTDSC]

my knowledge from at least the dealer i was at is if its deemed unsafe to drive, they never would have let you physically drive it off their lot. It would have had to been towed. Id check over everything and chalk it up as them trying to sell you something when not needed. Or they want to assume all liability if you happen to wreck because they let you leave with a noted "unsafe" vehicle which i highly doubt.

 

[ghostridr]

Thanks LTDSC & HokieRunner for all the sound advice, I have a 1000 mile trip ahead of me and this input puts me to rest until I get to Florida and can get a pair of LCAs ordered up and installed.:cheers:

Might have to forgo the slider upgrade and look into some Total Chaos LCAs instead for the time being.... :thumb3:

 

[HokieRunner]

No problem and good luck! If you get the TC LCAs post up some pics...they look really cool.

If/when you do replace the LCAs, make sure to have the extra cams and bolts in hand before cutting them off (if it comes to that). Most dealers don't keep those parts in house so it'll have at least a day or two to get them from the warehouse. Learned that the hard way....

 

[BlackWorksInc]

my knowledge from at least the dealer i was at is if its deemed unsafe to drive, they never would have let you physically drive it off their lot. It would have had to been towed. Id check over everything and chalk it up as them trying to sell you something when not needed. Or they want to assume all liability if you happen to wreck because they let you leave with a noted "unsafe" vehicle which i highly doubt.

This is something I used to believe, but the reality is there isn't a very strict regulation of it. Also in California I don't know of any laws that we can really put to a customer, I know in some states they can hold the car if the vehicle is unsafe and the customer is trying to drive it home or out of the shop.

We've had various instances at my dealership that make me cringe... from a '07 Camry coming in with 4 tires worn about -1~2/32" and all they wanted was an oil change and they drove off on ticking time bombs. To a vehicle with 2 out of 5 lugstuds on one wheel 3 on another, and a massively messed up suspension, again in just for an oil change only.

We could call the police or highway patrol on the customer an have them issue a citation, but that tends to be counter-productive obviously and is about as much as we can do.

If I had my way, customer comes in with a car that's unsafe to drive... they can either Tow, Push it, Drag it to where ever they want the repair done, but they ain't driving it on the road from my shop and getting an excuse to sue me or damage my reputation.

As for the OP, they could be referring to the cams, cam tabs, bolts, balljoint (I believe its not removable on a factory set-up like many others, may account for the reason it needs to be replaced,) and/or bushings being torn up as their qualifications for "unsafe." If the tabs were bent/broken off or the cam's misshapen it could cause the alignment to become erratic given enough of a shock to the suspension.

More than likely they were trying to scare you into a repair, I make it very clear to my service writers and customers when I get the opportunity when I say their vehicle is "unsafe and I recommend you don't drive it if possible" and "you're vehicle is unsafe and I cannot in good conscience let you drive this vehicle;" the latter basically a toothless statement as evidenced by the first part of my post. But I am trying to impart to the customer the difference between a repair that "you should take care of now, but if you really need to, drive carefully" and "your car done broked, duct tape ain't fixin' it this time."