Most Capable Off Road Vehicle

[Sac State]

most capable off road vehicle

You all missed it. The Honda XR250R is the most capable off road vehicle made.

My vote for most capable four wheeled vehicle would be the vehicle that is most reliable. Nothing more frightening than to be in BFE and have something mechanical break.

I say anything Toyota fits my needs.

 

[Good Times]

7. H2 is a joke. Big, heavy, and weak running gears are it's major deficits! It is simply too heavy for it's running gears. Did anyone see the video where it broke down over rocks?? It's a damn Suburban on heels!

Ok since I know this is gonna end up being a H2 flamin session I"m gonna make one comment.

That video we all saw (if you haven't, just search - thank you), that could happen to our 4runner or any offroading vehicle. That was completely a driver error and not the error of the vehicle.

Too much skinny pedal, that's all. I can guarantee if I drove like that to my 4runner it'd have the same results so lets not get started on "it's a POS" just cuz of the video.

H2's might not be as superior as they would state but it is still a rig that can make it on the trails. As a matter of fact, any vehicle can be a great rig with the right mods and the right drive.

 

[Thai]

Lance, i disagree. The video did not show the H2 doing anything extraordinarily stupid. It was just crawling over rocks. I am sure that the driver was in LO range...thus, he could not have been crawling very fast. The video shows the power transfer via traction control in the front. He may have guned the gas pedal a bit too hard, but certainly not enough to break the damn front suspension! The front suspension (steering rod, etc.) could not handle the power transfer...at least, that is what i saw from the video. The driver may not have been experienced, but he did not do anything that we could call ridiculously stupid.

I just came back from Colorado. Pics on another thread later. Anyway, there's no way a H2 can keep up with me on the Passes in Ouray/Telluride. They can barely fit on the mountain trails. The weight of it (a lot heavier than my G!) would have made it difficult to make up steep slick rocks.

My opinion.

 

[Good Times]

Actually the video does show alot. If you look closely it clearly show how not to tackle that obstacle. It shows clearly that the driver was at fault and not the vehicle.

The problem w/ breaking the tie rod was due to extreme lead foot action because he got stuck. He did indeed press on the gas pedal too hard which is wrong but it did get him out of that obstacle. The only problem was that once he cleared it, there was a rock in front and the sudden traction on the front passenger wheel caused too much stress on the tie rod thus snapping right off. This is something that can happen to anyone. (hint hint, check out people who break front axles - same situation but in the h2's case it was the tie rod).

If you add too much power, there will be repercussions. Therefore, whenever you rock crawl, you gtota go slow! (slow doesn't mean 1mph either). Slow means, your wheels must be rotationg slow (i.e. slow enough that you can actually see the treads on your tire move instead of a blur). Now that's how slow you're suppose to go.

Obviously he did not do that since you just see a blur on the tire. This error was not a stupid error but a crucial error in judgement while offroading. I would say that it was either a lack of concentration on his part or inexperience. Either way he didn't understand the basics on rock crawling.

And as for the video, anyone interested in rock crawling better, it's best to learn from other people's mistake (kinda sux) but hey better them than you right? Just remember, slow is good

As for following your g-wagon... welp obviously you know there are physical limitations on the h2 so no need to go into "narrow trails" area (as any full size vehicle would have the same problem including a h1).

 

[katmai]

The 2005 Tacoma TRD V6 with 6 speed manual, rear electric locker is right up there as a tier 1 stock vehicle by the looks of it in either the Double or extra cab bodies.
It maybe better than the 2002 Tacoma which was given this writeup compared to others mentioned in this thread.
An interesting and somewhat humorous article.

http://www.fourwheeler.com/roadtests/16558/index.html


http://pressroom.toyota.com/photo_library/display.html?kw=Tacoma

 

[Thai]

The problem w/ breaking the tie rod was due to extreme lead foot action because he got stuck. He did indeed press on the gas pedal too hard which is wrong but it did get him out of that obstacle. The only problem was that once he cleared it, there was a rock in front and the sudden traction on the front passenger wheel caused too much stress on the tie rod thus snapping right off. This is something that can happen to anyone. (hint hint, check out people who break front axles - same situation but in the h2's case it was the tie rod).

We are seeing the same thing then. Yes, it could happen to anyone...but you cannot compare what THAT H2 went thru to someone breaking an axle.

People break axles by "hopping" their vehicle under hard throttle (not sure what the correct term is), which is very violent and thus overstressing the half-shaft. To break a good quality, good sized axle, you have to be outright brutal with the throttle! In addition, most broken axles have lockers. Locker + brutal throttle application + high traction surface = torque twisting the shaft in half...aka broken axle. Thus, when your vehicle starts hopping during an uphill climb (indicating too much gas and alternating traction-slip-traction-slip.....) - you need to get off the gas immediately. Hopping is usually about a second away from a broken rear axle!

ATRAC (traction control) is MILDER than lockers in terms of stressing suspension components. When was the last time that you heard someone breaking their axle with ATRAC?? I have not heard of it. H2 has ATRAC in the front IFS...no locker in front. Thus, with just a little stress on the front suspension, the H2 front tie rod should NOT have broken. If i remember correctly, that was NOT the first H2 that have broken down over the same trail!

 

[Good Times]

First off, on the thread regarding most capable off road vehicle; the new taco wouldn't even come close as it's not fully locked unlike the rubicon and the g-wagon. My opinion.

Thai, as for breaking stuff, I just used the axle as an example as heavy throttle is usually the reason for breakage since this is very common for front locked rigs. Even though the parts are different, heavy throttle can be lethal on the vehicle you drive. Yes it's not the first h2 that's broken down but I'm sure there are other vehicles that has had it's stumbles.

None the less, I have no hate for any owner willing to take their vehicles on the trails. Atleast it's not sitting on some blacktop chillin at some grocery store parking lot.

 

[Thai]

None the less, I have no hate for any owner willing to take their vehicles on the trails. Atleast it's not sitting on some blacktop chillin at some grocery store parking lot.

Good point!:gaptooth:

 

[gonzo]

i have searched, but have had no luck turning up this famed h2 video. could someone post a link?

katmai - good article, i read that before as well. i was a little surprised that the h1 came in third though, especially behind a pre-rubicon wrangler.

thai, you mention the defender. i was under the impression that the defender is no longer available for sale on this side of the pond but that they are re-releasing it in 2007. how do you think the old defenders compare to the g-wagon? did the old defenders come with lockers?

imho - if someone told me to choose a stock 4x4 to complete a one day adventure in which i would encounter numerous hurdles, i would opt for the rubicon, although that unimog looks kind of interesting!

 

[Thai]

You're right...i forgot about your initial criteria. The Defender is not available in the US for now. I do believe that IF Land Rover brings over the Defender, then it would likely be based on the LR3 (new Disco) platform.

The old Defender did not come with lockers...you have to buy it aftermarket. However, it had tremendous flex in it's suspension (it was what Land Rovers are known for)...thus, even though it had no lockers, the Defender still could get thru stuff because it's wheels are always in contact with the ground. I think that the current Defenders in Europe come with ATRAC (4-wheel traction control) as standard equipment.

How does it compare to the G-wagen? Well, it is probably the same or slightly better/worst than my G-wagen, depending on terrain. The advantages: it's small size and short wheelbase (like Wrangler). It is also lighter. Therefore, it can fly thru obstacles better. It's wheel travel and ATRAC system should help a lot.

Rubicon is the way to go for American-type off-roading. From this past week in Colorado, my G-wagen can go to about 90% of places where Rubicon can go. The Rubi, on the other hand, can go 100% where my G-wagen can go. It has everything my G-wagen has in terms of mechanical stuff. My G-wagen is just more luxurious and comfortable over the trail.

 

[the_josh]

what about the isuzu Vehi-Cross???

does anyone remeber these trucks?
one of my friends had a ironman version a few years back and we took it off road and it was just absolutely amazing! it has so much control and power and it was so small...
i wonder how this sompares to the others, if at all...

 

[GatorGreg]

what about the isuzu Vehi-Cross???

does anyone remeber these trucks?
one of my friends had a ironman version a few years back and we took it off road and it was just absolutely amazing! it has so much control and power and it was so small...
i wonder how this sompares to the others, if at all...

Remember that gonzo's first criteria was:

"We are talking about new vehicles, not a specific fj that was built in '73, but something that you could still by brand new, today."

Thus the Vehi-Cross wouldn't qualify - but it's still very good off-road from what I remember reading about them when they came out.

 

[94yotarunner]

So, what would happen to the ranking of the 4Runner if you took a 4th Gen, added a 2-3" lift, slightly larger and more aggressive tires, and an ARB rear locker? Would that bump it up a notch? Just curious as that's what I'm planning on doing.

But thats the whole point... its just stock. In the same way you said it, if you grab a stock Grand Cherokee or a stock SC Frontier (or Xterra) or a Tacoma, top of the line in their brands (cause you'd want the V8 Grand Cherokee just like you would the t4r) and you put a 2-3" lift, 33" tires with an aggressive tread and rear lockers then you're gonna be tuggin along well on any trail. (if you have tires that correspond to the trail ofcourse)

In my opinion, PURE PURE stock you're gonna be looking at the Rubicon and the H1 (for open terrain or very open trails... def not for the trails I run) would be the two I'd go with... definitely the Rubicon. But as with anything, I don't know if the Rubicon would last me what I'd want it to last without endless TLC.

The 4th Gens, as much as I hate to say it, wouldn't perform rough trails (that I try atleast) well unless you're alright with body damage and bottoming out often. Even with the skid plates, you do it enough and the reliability factor's out the door... and noone likes that loud clank that's made by bottoming out that makes the 'your wallet's shrinking' sound. Sport editions would do a little better because of the XREAS suspension with offroading in mind, in a sense, but the 9.1 inch (4WD) and 8.9 (2WD) doesn't compare with the 3rd or even earlier gen's ground clearance (nearly 2 inches higher for 3rd and 2nd gens= 20% higher).
And as I offroad more and more with my friends (in wooded and rocky terrain) (ignore this if you live in the desert), ground clearance and reliability is the biggest factor for stock trucks, save a locker or a winch persay. So yeah... the 4th gen might be able to make it up quicker and with more power, less RPMs and your ankle might feel less sore but you'd be clanking up the whole way (pure stock) and you might even get some nice little markings that tag your car as the 'Moron who Hit the Tree' offroader because of the 6 inches wider body, 6 inch longer wheelbase and 13 inch longer body.

I'd take the 3.4 2000 5 speed 4Runner with the specs you stated above over a 4th gen anyday, an Xterra (just for wheelin not actual daily life), wait for the FJ concept or a well kept FJ40 personally.
But hey... that's just my .02

 

[94yotarunner]

I love you:

 

[Good Times]

But thats the whole point... its just stock. In the same way you said it, if you grab a stock Grand Cherokee or a stock SC Frontier (or Xterra) or a Tacoma, top of the line in their brands (cause you'd want the V8 Grand Cherokee just like you would the t4r) and you put a 2-3" lift, 33" tires with an aggressive tread and rear lockers then you're gonna be tuggin along well on any trail. (if you have tires that correspond to the trail ofcourse)

In my opinion, PURE PURE stock you're gonna be looking at the Rubicon and the H1 (for open terrain or very open trails... def not for the trails I run) would be the two I'd go with... definitely the Rubicon. But as with anything, I don't know if the Rubicon would last me what I'd want it to last without endless TLC.

The 4th Gens, as much as I hate to say it, wouldn't perform rough trails (that I try atleast) well unless you're alright with body damage and bottoming out often. Even with the skid plates, you do it enough and the reliability factor's out the door... and noone likes that loud clank that's made by bottoming out that makes the 'your wallet's shrinking' sound. Sport editions would do a little better because of the XREAS suspension with offroading in mind, in a sense, but the 9.1 inch (4WD) and 8.9 (2WD) doesn't compare with the 3rd or even earlier gen's ground clearance (nearly 2 inches higher for 3rd and 2nd gens= 20% higher).
And as I offroad more and more with my friends (in wooded and rocky terrain) (ignore this if you live in the desert), ground clearance and reliability is the biggest factor for stock trucks, save a locker or a winch persay. So yeah... the 4th gen might be able to make it up quicker and with more power, less RPMs and your ankle might feel less sore but you'd be clanking up the whole way (pure stock) and you might even get some nice little markings that tag your car as the 'Moron who Hit the Tree' offroader because of the 6 inches wider body, 6 inch longer wheelbase and 13 inch longer body.

I'd take the 3.4 2000 5 speed 4Runner with the specs you stated above over a 4th gen anyday, an Xterra (just for wheelin not actual daily life), wait for the FJ concept or a well kept FJ40 personally.
But hey... that's just my .02

Welp I can prove you otherwise. During the 1st year while my 4runner was stock, I was able to handle all the trails that 2 3rd gen went thru (rock crawling). Keep in mind that all three of us were stock. Yes indeed I will not argue that the 4th is low but that doesn't mean squat as long as you pick the correct line for the limitation of your truck. You will be very surprised at how well this vehicle can handle on the trails considering it no longer has a rear locker. Even before I got my rear locker I was able to conquer trails that people felt required a rear locker. Go figure (alot has to do w/ driver skill so don't forget that as well).

Xreas is made for cornering on the streets so people won't roll over. Therefore it really won't do much on the trails as you're going soo slow anyway.

btw, don't forget the 4th gen is still narrower than the tundra and any full sized trucks.

Fyi, rubicons are sweet because it comes standard with front and rear lockers but they've been known to be a POS due to inferior parts (go figure). but atleast it has lockers. My bet is still on thai's g-wagon since $ is not an object.

 

[94yotarunner]

Welp I can prove you otherwise. During the 1st year while my 4runner was stock, I was able to handle all the trails that 2 3rd gen went thru (rock crawling). Keep in mind that all three of us were stock. Yes indeed I will not argue that the 4th is low but that doesn't mean squat as long as you pick the correct line for the limitation of your truck. You will be very surprised at how well this vehicle can handle on the trails considering it no longer has a rear locker. Even before I got my rear locker I was able to conquer trails that people felt required a rear locker. Go figure (alot has to do w/ driver skill so don't forget that as well).

Xreas is made for cornering on the streets so people won't roll over. Therefore it really won't do much on the trails as you're going soo slow anyway.

btw, don't forget the 4th gen is still narrower than the tundra and any full sized trucks.

Fyi, rubicons are sweet because it comes standard with front and rear lockers but they've been known to be a POS due to inferior parts (go figure). but atleast it has lockers. My bet is still on thai's g-wagon since $ is not an object.

Well yeah... you know what, an inch of height and several of width and length won't make the difference to where you're not moving around, thats not what I meant to say. All I was saying was that when it comes down to it, I'd rather be driving a stock 2nd or 3rd gen, personally. You'll still be able to do it obviously because its not the difference between a Jetta and a Hummer. Hope that makes what I said clearer.

 

[Thai]

Fyi, rubicons are sweet because it comes standard with front and rear lockers but they've been known to be a POS due to inferior parts (go figure). but atleast it has lockers. My bet is still on thai's g-wagon since $ is not an object.

From what i hear from Jeep and Jeep Forums, the Rubicon running gears are very strong, especially the transfer case and lockers. The lockers are made by Tochigi Fuji Industrial Co., Ltd. According to Jeep, these lockers were tested to be tougher than ARB air lockers or any other for that matter...they were the only lockers that did not break down during Jeep's grueling testings. This has been confirmed by the Jeep engineers themselves in publications.

You can read more about the Tochigi lockers on this link:

http://www.marklines.com/en/presen/tochigifuji.jsp

(The Rubicon lockers are called, "Lock-up Helical LSD".)

Both axles on the Rubicon are true Dana 44 axles. The only difference is that Dana 44 half-shafts for front axle is slightly smaller than the rear...this is by design from Dana, not Jeep. Some owners are upgrading the front with Ox parts to make it even stronger than Dana 60!

Anyway, i am a fan of Rubicon...the mechanical parts are first-rate IMO. Of course, the rest of the Rubicon is raw and rough-edged.

 

[Thai]

what about the isuzu Vehi-Cross???

does anyone remeber these trucks?
one of my friends had a ironman version a few years back and we took it off road and it was just absolutely amazing! it has so much control and power and it was so small...
i wonder how this sompares to the others, if at all...

The Vehicross was a good off-roader in it's time...and i think that it did have a LSD in the rear. However, i have heard that it's fancy shocks blew out quickly with real off-roading.