Hello 4R org-ers. I am a 4R newbie. Bought my first $ Runner, a 98 SR5 from a one owner woman from Texas. It was all original everything including unchanged brake and coolant,tranny fluid etc. It even had the original timing belt with 260K miles. But it was dent free and garaged and cheap so I took a chance and did all the deferred maintenance imaginable, hoses, seals,flushes,sensors, Iridiums, even a new radiator. I fixed all the CEls and did a scan and all the numbers were amazingly good. The timing belt , pulleys, seals and water pump were still perfect after 25 years but of course got replaced with All Toyota parts. I am a mechanic with a lift so it was relatively easy and cheap. We were finally ready for our first long road trip. We have access to ethanol free gasoline here in Wyoming and I wanted to make a road trip comparison of MPG with ethanol and non ethanol gasoline. I had the perfect test condition setup. I drove up to Montana and back by the exact same route with identical conditions,. No wind, several mountain passes. I used cruise control and drove the speed limit which was between 45 and 70. When I got to Montana on Pure Sinclair gasoline I was thrilled to get 23.5 mpg after traveling over 300 miles. I filled up in Livingston with Exxon ethanol fuel and we drove the same route home. I was expecting a drop in mileage and when I filled up I was stunned to get 24.5 mpg. I usually fill to 2 or 3 clicks of the pump.I was thrilled to get such good mileage with a V-6 and an AT and now I see why these 4 Runners are so cherished and expensive. I was surprised that the fuel mpg was unchanged and even a little better with ethanol gasoline. Has anyone out there done this test?
MPG ethanol gas vs pure gasoline
- Thread starter hugho
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Devbot
New member
I have an ethanol free station I try to exclusively use. I noticed gas mileage go up barely, maybe by 1-2mpg at best like you, but what I really notice is a difference in throttle response. Engine is much less sluggish/hesitant without ethanol, especially on hills. Every once in a while I have to fill up with E10 and the difference is very much noticeable every time
brillo_76
Elite Member
The 3rd gens were designed for pure gasoline. Will they run on ethonal 10% yes without issues.
That's the limit, though. Toyota doesn't recommend anything higher than that. Will it run, yes I just expect leaks or component failure to occur from running e15. If you continue to use it in time.
I see they added more octane boost to try to keep the mpg up.
Time will tell though. I am sure people are running it as we speak.
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That's the limit, though. Toyota doesn't recommend anything higher than that. Will it run, yes I just expect leaks or component failure to occur from running e15. If you continue to use it in time.
I see they added more octane boost to try to keep the mpg up.
Time will tell though. I am sure people are running it as we speak.
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19963.4lsr5
New member
The extra 50-80 cents a gallon isn’t worth it to me. I’d rather have 93-94 octane with the extra cleaners then strait 87. I ran it in my Saturn SL1 and didn’t notice anything same milage and same performance in my little Sh** box.
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Pyral
Member
I don't notice a difference, but the MPG gets a marginal improvement. All I consider is MPG, and for whatever reason on the West coast e-free cost several dollars more. So it's not even close to economical to use it.
The best mpg I've gotten by a huge margin was on E10, so there are more important factors than E10 vs E-free.
The best mpg I've gotten by a huge margin was on E10, so there are more important factors than E10 vs E-free.
19963.4lsr5
New member
I’ve noticed 1-2 improvement using 89 with our Giant gas rewards.
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I've run E85 on a turbo car of mine in the past, and it made a LOT more power with E85, because that's around 110 octane, more or less. Acts like a bit more than that even, with the greater liquid fuel evaporation cooling the intake a bit more vs. gasoline. Higher octane - more boost given that the rest of the engine is unchanged. And more ignition advance, partially due to ethanol burning a little slower, and partly because you didn't need as much retard to avoid detonation as you did with gas.
E85 required roughly 25% greater injection volume to account for the ethanol content. E10, having 1/8ths of the ethanol content (close enough) - results in something like a ballpark estimate of a bit under 3% more injection volume to keep stochio on E10 vs. straight gas? Which is close enough to get buried in all the other variables in a car's MPG on a given day. It exists, for sure, but it's small.
E85 required roughly 25% greater injection volume to account for the ethanol content. E10, having 1/8ths of the ethanol content (close enough) - results in something like a ballpark estimate of a bit under 3% more injection volume to keep stochio on E10 vs. straight gas? Which is close enough to get buried in all the other variables in a car's MPG on a given day. It exists, for sure, but it's small.
Devbot
New member
Maybe your side of the mountains! Over here it's almost never outside a dollar difference - right now in Snohomish it's around $4.80-4.90 iirc while the 76 and other regular stations down the street are at like $4.50-4.60. Tons of regular stations in Everett hovering around $4.70-4.80 too cause of all the highway traffic. Not nearly that extreme of a difference
Edit: went to get gas this morning and they're replacing all the pumps, just my luck :lmao:
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Thanks for all the feedback everybody. I rarely travel outside Wyoming and outside of Wyoming a rarely see ethanol free gas unless it is Ethanol free premium. Our Sinclair station sells ONLY Ethanol free gasoline in all grades and it does cost about 20 cents a gallon more than the Maverick station down the street. There are many reasons to avoid ethanol gasoline from practical, mechanical and even environmental reasons. Ethanol gas deteriorates in storage far faster than pure gasoline even if you add STABIL. Ethanol gas is also bad for two cycle engines like chainsaws and outboards as everyone knows. Ethanol has 70% of the BTU energy value of gasoline and that is why I was expecting decreased MPG but my results for just a single test are within the probability range of change statistically speaking. Also I had not heard that MPG increases with altitude. Air density is slightly less so air resistance would be slightly less I suppose as well but you have to get to 18000 feet to get a 50% decrease in density and air resistance but our trip to Montana was AT 6500 TO 8000 FEET so that may very well have contributed to the surprisingly high mpg. Our last trip in our 4 cyl Camry yielded 38 mpg which is way above the 30-31 EPA for that motor.
phattyduck
Elite Member
Fewer pumping losses in the engine at higher altitudes - the throttle plate has to be open farther (closer to max BSFC for the engine) so that is more efficient too. The downside is lower max power, of course.
-Charlie
phattyduck
Elite Member
This is 100% the answer right here. 3% of 20mpg is 0.6mpg - so it isn't nothing... but it isn't much to worry about either. I have long been able to see summer/winter blend switchover with my MPG tracking... but you can't do anything about it. And it has to be averaged over many tanks to know what is going on for sure. Even a minor change in driving style can swamp out 0.6mpg from E10 vs. E0.
-Charlie
JoeT4R
Senior Member
Like Devbot mentioned, I don't notice a substantial increase in gas mileage with non-ethanol, but I can squeeze out an additional 50 to 70 miles with it though. The most noticeable difference is the throttle response. Much more peppy. I don't typically have access to non-ethanol gas unfortunately, so I run E10. I have run a few tanks of E15 exclusively for about two months. The throttle response was reduced and mileage dropped to about 12 miles per gallon... which is no bueno in my book.
If I had the ability to exclusively use non-ethanol and it wasn't breaking the bank, I'd probably do that for as long as I could.
If I had the ability to exclusively use non-ethanol and it wasn't breaking the bank, I'd probably do that for as long as I could.
19963.4lsr5
New member
In my area it’s:
4.55 for E0
3.50 for E10
3.55 for E15
Not worth it.
I use 91-93 octane for all my small engines and never had any problem related to it being E10. Only small engine Equipement that are not two stroke are a snowblower and a log splitter.
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missionman
Member
I have a 2003 4runner SR5 and was getting 14.8 and 15 mpg at best. Switched to NON-ethanol gas at Murphy's gas station in Colorado Springs for the last 2 months and now im getting 16.7 mpg and it keeps getting better every week it seems. It takes a few tanks of gas to empty out that ethanol that sits at the bottom of the tank unfortunately, along with its water and bs.
I'm shocked by your numbers. Regarding my 2001:
- I have many many very long trips on my T4R
- I get about 19 mpg highway, under most conditions. I have -never- seen anywhere close to 27 mpg, or even 21 mpg.
- I get about 17 mpg around town, under most conditions.
- I haven't seen much variation (certainly within error tolerance) for ethanol. This goes for the summer/winter e? blend switch in norcal. And when using e85 in Idaho, etc.
YMMV ... literally
JustTroItIn
Member
I'm shocked by your numbers. Regarding my 2001:
- I have many many very long trips on my T4R
- I get about 19 mpg highway, under most conditions. I have -never- seen anywhere close to 27 mpg, or even 21 mpg.
- I get about 17 mpg around town, under most conditions.
- I haven't seen much variation (certainly within error tolerance) for ethanol. This goes for the summer/winter e? blend switch in norcal. And when using e85 in Idaho, etc.
YMMV ... literally
I want to know your secret too. My average is 15mpg and the best I have seen with all highway is 18mpg. This is with all three 4Runners in my driveway.
I don't have much of a lead foot as these trucks are not very fast anyway. I do usually cruise at 80mph on the expressway.
