Murder or Travyon Martin

[RunninInGA]

Haha! It's an election year Thai, commenting on this sensationalism drawing references to his fictional son looking like Martin further secures the minority vote. Rather, it secures no minority vote for those vile, racist republicans, which we all know is the party of the evil white man. God himself knows there aren't any racist democrats. Can't be, right, the big O is their elected monarch.

 

[ndcent]

ndecnt:
its pretty obvious you have made up your mind and will not consider other points of view.

As have you..

As for the "John Doe" toe tag. I have not heard this, but if the only form of identification he had on him is a cell phone, that is hardly sufficient enough to make a positive ID. Further, I am sure that decision was made by the County Medical Examiner, not the Samford Police. It is the Medical Examiner's responsibility to establish identity in the absence of something that is clear cut (Driver's license or State ID card). And, how do you know the Samford Police did NOT do a thorough investigation? Just because the feds are involved does not mean they didn't do their job. Maybe the feds are investigating a possible hate crime angle, which is a federal offense. Maybe the feds were brought in due to political pressure because someone of power or authority were not happy with the way the investigation turned out, regardless of fact. Or, as you state to somehow KNOW AS FACT maybe Samford PD DID drop the ball. However, you continue to ignore one very important angle to this entire story that I wrote in my last post: You, I, the media, and just about everyone else in the country does not have all the facts. Until those facts are collected and presented to a Grand Jury for possible indictment, I will reserve my judgement. If evidence proves Zimmerman acted inappropriately according to the pertinent local, state, or federal laws, then he needs to be held accountable. If the evidence shows he did not act inappropriately, then get ready for a serious sh!t storm from those who have a political agenda. I just refuse to believe everything the media throws at me and have enough time and experience on this planet to know that things are rarely so clear cut or black and white (no race emphasis intended).

If Sanford PD did their job right the US Department of Justice wouldn't have taken over. Infer from that what you want and I'll do the same.

 

[ndcent]

It Is Never About Race. All those people arguing down through the years that the Civil War was about dueling conceptions of nationhood, or a clash of incompatible economic systems, or the ramifications of the 10th Amendment were all arguing, after all, that It Was Not About Race. Massive Resistance in the South in the 1960's was about resistance to overweening federal power because It Was Not About Race. The Wallace campaigns, and the politically profitable adoption by modern conservatism of the leftover tropes and trappings of American apartheid was about the embattled white middle-class in the North and not About Race because It Is Never About Race. Ronald Reagan kicked off his campaign talking about states rights in Philadelphia, Mississippi, not far from where they dug three civil rights workers out of a dam, because he wanted to show that a new paradigm had been established in American constitutional history, and it was not About Race because It Is Never About Race. Amadou Diallo was Not About Race. According to the Equal Justice Initiative, which tracks such things, dozens of children are currently serving sentences of life without parole, of whom two-thirds of them are children of color, as a result of laws passed by legislators wanting to look tough on crime, and those statistics are not skewed because of race because It Is Never About Race. George Zimmerman saw a black kid with a hoodie and gave chase with his gun in his hand. But that was not about race, because Joe Oliver and the Sanford police and the oh-so-very fair-minded media are telling us, hell, don't worry, It Is Never About Race.

More from Esquire

 

[ant-ny]

You are wrong. I don't know what you are reading or how/why you infer something the way you do. I have not made up my mind. I simply like to wait for all the facts to be presented until making a judgement. Call me stupid, but that sounds logical. You know the whole "innocent until proven guilty" thingy that is a staple of the American Criminal Justice System?

But, it does make for entertaining conversation and I thank you for that.

 

[Thai]

Ndcent, are you African American? I am not. Nor am I white. Maybe that is why I rather wait for the Grand Jury before passing judgement and protesting-to-lead-to-riot.

 

[RunninInGA]

Bend and twist and skew any way you like. It's never about race. The media made this about race early on to divide the country on the issue. The likes of Big Al (who's fatter than Z, right tbst?) and JJ, and the Black Panthers are certainly wanting you to believe a white man hunted an innocent black kid. Nevermind the fact the man is bi-ethnic (Hispanic) and the not so innocent black kid is actually a nearly grown man who is reportedly affiliated with gangs and supposedly deals drugs.

All I've said all along is you guys prejudging the situation without knowing the full story, ie, only what the media is telling you is very dangerous and further advances the control you allow the media to have over you as an individual. Wise up, it's only getting worse.

 

[Thai]

All I've said all along is you guys prejudging the situation without knowing the full story, ie, only what the media is telling you is very dangerous and further advances the control you allow the media to have over you as an individual. Wise up, it's only getting worse.

Hmmm, isn't this why we have the would-be father of Mr. Martin in office? American public and their ignorance! And we call the 3rd world folks ignorant!

 

[BrianSD_42]

Ndcent, are you African American? I am not. Nor am I white. Maybe that is why I rather wait for the Grand Jury before passing judgement and protesting-to-lead-to-riot.

Thai, It probably has a lot more to do with your personal beliefs and zip code then your ethnicity.

Are you saying that the people on this thread and the rest of the country who are upset are just "of color" and "play the race card before all the facts come in" ?

Also, what is with the "nor am I white comment"? Perhaps I am not understanding what you are implying.


Myself, I am multiple shades of only white. I have ancestry going back to Europe in Scottland, England and Germany. But my family has lived in the United States since before 1900 ~ so at least 110 years. AND yet I think Z committed a homicide + at the minimum there is enough evidence to indite him for manslaughter.

..

When the state grand jury comes back with an indictment for murder 2 or manslaughter, that will only be further confirmation that the family was right to protest and that the police were wrong to STOP the investigation.

:guitar2:

 

[ndcent]

Ndcent, are you African American? I am not. Nor am I white. Maybe that is why I rather wait for the Grand Jury before passing judgement and protesting-to-lead-to-riot.

I'm not advocating protesting and I think as*holes like Sharpton and Jackson do their best to keep racism alive and profit from it at every chance and are a disgrace to their race.

I'm white, 30, moderate/lean right, did not vote for Obummer. Based on the available information I think it's reasonable to consider Zimmerman is a murderer, but plan to continue following and will own my opinion, wrong or right.

 

[tbst]

Hmmm, isn't this why we have the would-be father of Mr. Martin in office? American public and their ignorance! And we call the 3rd world folks ignorant!

No actually its called voting. You are calling every person who voted for Obama ignorant, yet you want to be taken seriously.

 

[tbst]

If you read the poll, it says from the facts what we know should Zimmerman be charged with murder. Bottom line, from what we know, yes.

Of course Zimmerman is going to start a story where Trayvon attacked him from the back. Why you desperately want to believe it... I don't know.

I am not going to get in a cyclical argument about the news media. If you have such an issue about them and their sensationalism of topics, go and start another thread where you can discuss that. Here, I plan to discuss the case itself and the details of the case. If you want to be outraged by the media and try and point me being a puppet to the media, that is OK, however I will not respond.

Please let me know when I can hear Trayvon's side of the story. My ears are open.

 

[03L4RUNNER]

You are calling every person who voted for Obama ignorant.

Well aren't they?

 

[RunninInGA]

Where's the outrage?

Since this particular case has happened:

Thirteen-Year-Old Kansas Boy Set on Fire | Bangstyle :: A Global Network Promoting Independent Artists

On Tuesday, according to KCTV 5, a 13-year-old Kansas boy was set on fire by two 16-year-old boys. The boy was rushed to Children’s Mercy Hospital after his face and hair were set ablaze.

The boy was walking home from East High School and actually made it to his home two blocks away on Quincy Avenue when he was assaulted. One of the boys prevented him from entering his house, and the victim said that the second suspect grabbed a red gallon of gasoline and told him, “This is what you get.”

The Kansas City Police Department said that when lighter sparked the gasoline it “produced a large fire ball burning the face and hair.” They were particularly worried about the boy’s eyes and lungs and also stated that this was a particularly “heinous crime.” They are also considering if this was a hate crime because all that is known is that*the victim is white, and the two suspects are black.

According to KMBC, the boy managed to put the fire out using the shirt he was wearing and called 911 on his own before calling his dad. Melissa Coon, the boy’s mother, said, “You could smell the burned skin. You could smell the burned hair. It was just awful.”

Since the boy has*returned home, reports are now saying that the suspects said, “This is what you deserve. You get what you deserve, white boy.” Sites such as The New American are saying this was previously edited out*so as to not*cause any racial controversy.

If it was or was not a hate crime, it is still unbelievably awful. The boy suffered first degree burns but hopefully will be able to fully recover. No one has been arrested as of yet, but the parents obviously plan to go after whoever it was who attacked their son.

Brutal home invasion of Oklahoma couple ends their 65-year romance after first meeting on a blind date | Mail Online

Suspect in Fort Worth slaying had been released three weeks earlier | Crime and Safety |...

Man charged with capital murder in MSU shooting - WAFF-TV: News, Weather and Sports for Huntsville, AL

Before you guys start crying about racism and violence, chew on these statistics. That said, I'm sure each of you have your own reasons for why these numbers aren't true. Just like what you're being instructed to do each night with the 6:00 news, this doesn't fit yours or their agendas, right?

Federal Statistics of black on white violence, with links and mathematical extrapolation formulas. - Lafayette Political Buzz | Examiner.com

The “New Century Foundation” studies Federal crime reports, and found significant differences in crime ratio between races, verified by the FBI’s NCVS, National Crime Victimization Survey, and The Department of Justice’s UCR, Uniform Crime Reports, FBI Communication’s Division, 304-625-4995.

They state emphatically that the Judicial System is not biased against minorities.

Blacks are seven times more likely than people of other races to commit murder, and eight times more likely to commit robbery.

Blacks are three times more likely to use a hand gun, and twice more likely to use a knife.

Hispanics commit three times more violent crimes than whites, but the statistics are nebulous because sometimes they are classified as white, so it could be far higher.

The best indicator of violent crime levels in an area is the percent of the population that is black and Hispanic.

Blacks are 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against whites then vice versa, and 136 times more likely to commit a robbery.

Forty-five percent of black crime is against whites, 43 against other blacks, and 10 percent against Hispanic.

Blacks are seven times more likely to go to prison, Hispanics three times, and the reason is clear, because from 1980 to 2003 the US incarceration rate has tripled, and so proves that Justice is not only hard won, but well served.
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
Verification of these claims comes from the sources below, extrapolation methods are verified by the New Century Foundation, http://www.amren.com/color.pdf.

From FBI:
Mr. LaRive:
The Uniform Crime Reporting Program does not collect the age, sex, or race of victims in conjunction with offenses reported to the police with the exception of murder and nonnegligent homicide. You will find the data on the race of victims of homicide at http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/offenses/expanded_information/data/shrtable_02.html.

Age, sex, and race of offenders are collected in conjunction with arrest data. You will find the arrest data by race at http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/data/table_43.html. If you need further assistance with UCR Program data, please contact the FBI’s Communications Group at 304-625-4995.



Continue reading on Examiner.com Federal Statistics of black on white violence, with links and mathematical extrapolation formulas. - Lafayette Political Buzz | Examiner.com Federal Statistics of black on white violence, with links and mathematical extrapolation formulas. - Lafayette Political Buzz | Examiner.com

EDIT- Fvcking wow at the bolded parts - even I'm amazed at that ratio! In the school system I attended, less than 3% were whites with the vast majority being blacks. I graduated in a class of 1,200 students, my high school campus included nearly 8,000 people (do the math). I know a thing or two about racism - from experience.

 

[Thai]

Please let me know when I can hear Trayvon's side of the story. My ears are open.

Haven't we heard mostly from his side?? In fact, we really have not heard much from Z side. So what are you basing your conclusion on if you claim to be fair and just?? If you are not, then disregard my post.

 

[Thai]

No actually its called voting. You are calling every person who voted for Obama ignorant, yet you want to be taken seriously.

Your point being???

 

[tbst]

Your point being???

We will never agree on this and we have an entire thread going about it already where we got nowhere.

One thing we can agree on is that I screwed up the title of the thread. If you would be kind enough to correct it, it'd be excellent.

Then we can get back to both thinking the other person is a complete moron.

 

[BrianSD_42]

Well aren't they?

So 200 million Americans are ignorant but YOU are so F'n great.

Please tell us more about yourself.

 

[tbst]

^^68,450,000 Americans.

 

[Thai]

Brian likes to think big!! I can't change anything...you have to PM one of the mods.

Btw, I am done...it is not easy to keep up this discussion on an iPhone!! No, please don't take me seriously....

 

[BrianSD_42]

We will never agree on this and we have an entire thread going about it already where we got nowhere.

One thing we can agree on is that I screwed up the title of the thread. If you would be kind enough to correct it, it'd be excellent.

Then we can get back to both thinking the other person is a complete moron.

LoL.

I hope that many of the people here on both sides at least support a manslaughter charge. TBST's title does not ask if Z should be convicted, only charged. He will still get his day in court.

It seems to me that there are a lot of different opinions about the concept of "stand your ground" with many for & against.

I do agree with RunningInGA that there are a lot of other tragedies going on in the country ... ect. I really really have 0 respect for the media news, they are pretty terrible, we all remember the caley anthony trial BS.