Need advice from gun owners...

[atalarico]

Hey all! I'm not sure why I didn't think of coming here first to ask, but here's the preface...it's long so I'm sorry!

At first glance, you would probably never guess I would be interested in firearms. However, I grew up being fascinated with the military (because of a few relatives who have served), and I actually know a surprising amount about firearms before I ever shot one thanks to being a gamer since the beginning of gaming. Games like Jane's based games, Tom Clancy games, and now the Battlefield games are packed with firearms information.

I shot my dad's Mossberg and a few pistols when I was a teenager, but I just never really pursued it or thought about it until last year. Last year a friend wanted to go to a range for his birthday because he had never shot a gun, and it was on his bucket list.

Welllllll...it was a great experience! The employees at the range were great and didn't treat us any differently because we might not look like their typical clientele. The whole experience got me hooked and I've decided that I want to work my way up to owning a small personal arsenal (handgun, shotgun, and a rifle). Unfortunately, there aren't too many people around me that I can ask for advice on making my first purchase, how the whole process works, etc.

I figured I would come here because if I know anything about the T4R members, when we get into something we *really* get into it! We know all sorts of ridiculous information and have researched our vehicles so much that I'll bet a few of you have the same level of dedication when it comes to firearms!

I'm going to start with a handgun, and I've already decided either on something chambered in .40 or .45. I tried at least 10 different handguns that day (it reminded me of demoing skis!) and I've narrowed it down to a Springfield XD series. Of course I had like one of the more expensive ones out there, and I don't make a lot of money so it'll be a big purchase when I'm ready.

From there though, I don't know what I should be looking for, where I should be looking, and what the process involves. I won't be trying to get a CCW (legally, I don't think I can because of MMJ), so it doesn't have to be super compact. However, I would like to bring it backpacking with me, and I am a smaller male, so a smaller and lighter platform might suit me better? One of my pursuits is climbing, so grip/forearm/shoulder strength really isn't an issue, so I've read that controlling a lighter gun might be easier.

I've heard there are considerations for ammo availability, and that should be a factor in the decision making process, etc. A .45 is where the recoil gets noticeable, and I know even a well placed .22 can stop a threat, so I might lean towards a .40S&W.

I've been perusing ArmsList but I have no idea how that experience is versus going to a traditional dealer. So, if you feel like giving me some advice, I'd really appreciate it! If your in Denver or Colorado and want to recommend some local dealers to check out, even better!

Thanks!

 

[AudiTech]

I have an XDM .40 with a 4.5" barrel. It sits on the night stand every night with a Crimson Trace and loaded with hollow points. IMHO I like my Walther PPQ a lot more, if I was going with 1 pistol I would go with an HK USP or the Wather PPQ. I bought all of my firearms prior to moving to CO.

Where did you go to shoot? I literally haven't shot a gun since moving to Colorado and it seems like every shooting range out here requires a monthly membership.

 

[Supra725]

To be honest, go with which caliber you are comfortable with.. I was in your same shoes years ago when I purchased my first gun.

I went with an p226 in 9 over the .40 because I was more comfortable with an 9 than an .40 .

You want to get something you can practice with pretty frequently with.. anyone can shoot a gun but not everyone can shoot it accurately.
.22's aren't bad but with the hoardes/flippers that buys whatever .22 they get their hands off at wally world.. it blows.. they sell it at double the cost of what it cost.

with the current springfield promo, you get an additional 3 more mags + mag holder for free..

 

[BrianSD_42]

My advice to you as a newish gun owner (and I believe most LEOs and Military would agree) is DO NOT buy a gun without a safety.

Its trendy and cool to not have a safety but (IMO) most people who've actually used guns in the line of duty understand that
1) the safety serves a valid purpose
2) you can always just leave the safety off
3) you aren't the Navy Seal played by Eric Banna in Black Hawk Down lol.

. I won't be trying to get a CCW (legally, I don't think I can because of MMJ),

I dont know what MMJ is but if you are in CO and pay local taxes then im pretty sure you can get a CCW.

I would advise you get a CCW because (as I understand it) you have much more freedom legally with regards to how you carry and store the weapon. I'm not an LEO but here is how I understand it.

Example: carrying the firearm loaded in glove box might be felony without a CCW yet perfectly legal with a CCW. The CCW gives you greater freedom move the weapon without being in violation of the law. For that reason alone I would get one even though I would have no real intention to daily carry it in public. Of course I don't live in CO which is a "shall issue CCW state."

 

[atalarico]

Thanks for all the insight!

Audi, the USP is my second favorite.

Supra, that is solid advice. It's too easy to get wrapped up in what people "tell" you to get. Just do what makes sense for you is so simple, but so easy to forget with the access we all have to "experts" now. I definitely want something to shoot a lot, because that's really the whole point for me! It's fun as hell and I would hate to get something I might love to death premature.

Brian, really helpful! I agree about the safety, and I know well enough how dangerous they can be even when you don't think you're doing anything wrong (countless youtube videos!).

As for the MMJ issue; basically if you're a registered medical marijuana user, you can be denied a CCW because the federal government still considers it a drug, and you can't get a CCW and openly admit to drug use (according to articles written on the subject at least).

What is a "shall issue" state?

I'm with you though on wanting the freedoms the CCW offers even if I'm not really going to carry in public. For one thing, I get annoyed just having my wallet in my pocket, let a lone a loaded .45! It's a personal preference.

 

[BrianSD_42]

You should google "Colorado shall issue ccw"

Actually you should read this:
http://cunewscorps.com/bullets-or-bongs-coloradans-forced-to-choose-guns-or-weed/

It says that in CO you cannot be MMJ and own or use a firearm. I assume its implied that doing so is a crime.

If I were you I would suggest turning in your legally declared MMJ or not renewing it. Since weed is legal in CO now anyways then you can just buy local with cash and leave no trace. It would then be much harder to prove you were in violation of the law. I don't know for sure though as I don't live there. It does seem though that if a cop stops you and there is a gun in the car that you own AND also weed in the car you might be in some legal sh$t.

As always ask a laywer.

Pretty stupid IMO. You can be prescribed OxyC and still own a gun but with weed you become a criminal.

 

[atalarico]

You should google "Colorado shall issue ccw"

Actually you should read this:
Bullets or Bongs? Coloradans forced to choose: guns or weed | CU News Corps

Pretty stupid IMO. You can be prescribed OxyC and still own a gun but with weed you become a criminal.

Yeah, just did the Google and it's pretty much as I thought.

I also totally agree with you on the second part. It's because they think the reefer madness will take over and we'll all start car jacking old ladies just to get enough money to score our next dope fix. Whatever, I'm giving it 5-10 years before it's not even an issue anymore, and I will purposely reside in states where it isn't an issue until then.

 

[BrianSD_42]

See my updated response. I'd be looking to ditch the licensed medical MJ status and just go with anonymous and legal cash purchases.

 

[atalarico]

See my updated response. I'd be looking to ditch the licensed medical MJ status and just go with anonymous and legal cash purchases.

Yeah, it's tricky though. Taxes and regulation on the recreational stuff is insanely higher (pun?) than medical, so I'm waiting it out for at least another year.

We'll see though! Still not super concerned about the CCW anyway. I would just make sure to be extra-compliant with the laws while I don't have one.

As always, thanks for all the info! This forum is amazing...

 

[MyHigh]

Worse yet you can be raging drunk and still own a gun.
I believe in Oregon you can have both a chl and mmj

Honestly I'd trust a gun in the hands of a responsible pot smoker then a drunk. Only problem is weed is like lays potato chips, "you can just take one"

Op, I have a multitude of guns, different caliber and honestly I like my .380 the most. I'm hope ing to never be in a shoot out, I carry mainly because I used to walk about 5 miles home from work twice a week, at 12:30. If I ever have to use my gun it will be up close and personal, anything other then that I will hightail it and GTFO.

Try to find a range that will allow you to rent guns, try a couple out. I always thought it dumb to buy a gun you never had fired before, why can't we test fire then things, make sure they fit correctly, I have two guns I don't ever shoot just because I don't like they way they feel. Find a local gun forum and get to know other members, they usually have the inside scoop on good locations.
Good luck

 

[ddnww]

I personally don't like the Springfield, i would go with which feels best in your hands and which you are able to group shots the closest with. I would think maybe a smaller caliber would be best for your lightweight needs,but don't count on precise shots as you mentioned with a 22 caliber. In the heat of the moment you will most likely be least precise. I'm a smaller guy as well and i use a m&p 40 compact and i love it for daily carry. Remember even experienced gun owners have incidents so please be safe. Good luck OP.

here's the general firearms safety rules to follow at all times.

Treat every firearm as if it were loaded
Always point the muzzle in a safe direction
Be sure of your target and beyond
Always keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to shoot

 

[LandCruiser]

4473 clearly states that marijuana use is unlawful.

ATF wrote a letter confirming this.

The stance of the Federal government is that this is unlawful, regardless of intent of use.

You're breaking the law if you have a gun and committing a felony by filling out the 4473 stating otherwise.

This thread is over.

 

[TheWraith]

for me cheap and reliable means 2 guns

Glock 17 or 19
HK VP9

why I'm saying 9mm because its expensive to practice with 40 or 45 ... And since your new I suggest getting a few classes. Or a friend to teach you proper technique. And practice practice practice

 

[LandCruiser]

Worse yet you can be raging drunk and still own a gun.

Not true, most states have a zero tolerance policy of being drunk and in possession of a gun (i.e. the BAC needs to be 0), treatment of alcohol dependency can fall under the "mental health" clause of the 4473, and chronic opioid use has also been cited as having an "addiction."

The enforcement of the laws is spotty, but just giving you examples of how the laws CAN be used to take guns away or make someone's life a legal hell.

 

[atalarico]

Where did you go to shoot? I literally haven't shot a gun since moving to Colorado and it seems like every shooting range out here requires a monthly membership.

I totally forgot to answer this! It was BluCore in Lakewood. I forget what all the fees were but we definitely weren't members. I've heard the outdoor range at Cherry Creek State Park Reservoir is fun, but you need a state parks pass.

When I do get my first gun, I'm probably going to stick to state forest land (after learning all the do's and don'ts with that).

 

[BrianSD_42]

[MENTION=92049]LandCruiser[/MENTION] what he means is that in most states, actually every state, you can have a gun in the house and get raging drunk in your house or at the bar.

Yes i agree you cannot be wasted and carry the firearm on your person.

The MJ laws in CO however prevent people from even being a casual user of MJ and owning a gun at all. That's dumb.

 

[swapmeet]

Not sure how old you are, not that it matters. But over the last 6-8 years i've gone from not really caring about guns, to learning a ton and buying and selling quite a few.

I'm a huge fan of .45 in a 1911 platform. That being said, I don't think thats the best thing for someone who is new to guns.

I'm personally not a fan of .40 and recommend 9mm to anyone starting out.
Anytime I look at a gun, or even a caliber, I do a lot of research on how much its going to cost to "feed" the gun. How cheap can I get training rounds. How hard is it to FIND training rounds.

IMO, 9mm is a great "do it all" caliber. Less expensive than 40, more options on self defense ammo, more capacity in your weapon, less recoil than 40 or 45. Good ballistics (Although ballistics don't matter much between 9, 40 & 45) Less recoil (faster follow up shots)
All that being said... 40 and 9 aren't that far apart in performance. So if you like 40... go for it!

As far as a pistol, I would go with what feels the best in your hand, followed by what has the best trigger feel. My first gun was a XD9 Subcompact. The first time I shot it was at my CHL class, and I scored second highest in the class.

Do you have gun shows in Colorado? I would make a great effort to attend one, hold as many guns as you can. Obviously you've had the opportunity to shoot nearly a dozen in one sitting, which is really awesome. So maybe its not necessary.

Since you won't be carrying concealed, theres no point in getting a sub compact gun. This leaves you with 4-4.5-5" barrel options. The longer the barrel, the more accuracy (in general and within reason).
In a 9mm, I would look at the Glock 17, XDM9, M&P9 and 9C, and the Walther option mentioned above. That puts you in the 500-600 range and you get a very reliable weapon that "goes bang every time" with plenty of aftermarket support (mags, lights, holsters etc). But as said before... the most important thing is that the gun feels comfortable and natural in your hand.

While i'm not a huge Glock fan, there are a lot of very cool, very utilitarian upgrades available for Glocks that improve the user interfaces. Lighter trigger, extended Mag release, replacement sights.

I could go on about shotguns and rifles. But i've blabed on enough.

 

[ben550]

The MJ laws in CO however prevent people from even being a casual user of MJ and owning a gun at all. That's dumb.

Firearms do not mix with pot or alcohol. If you want to explore and enjoy one give up the other.

At what age do we force people to grow up and become responsible adults. You cant have everything your way.

For every action there is an equal reaction... choices have consequences (could be positive, or could be negative)

 

[atalarico]

4473 clearly states that marijuana use is unlawful.

ATF wrote a letter confirming this.

The stance of the Federal government is that this is unlawful, regardless of intent of use.

You're breaking the law if you have a gun and committing a felony by filling out the 4473 stating otherwise.

This thread is over.

Uh oh. This might be turning into a alcohol versus mj debate! I'm pulling my chute. All I'm going to say is that I am a very casual smoker, and not a stoner by any definition. I smoke *maybe* twice a week, and if that makes me a stoner, then your (and mine) one or two beers after work makes you a drunk. Capeesh? =p

Read the question on form 4473 one more time, LC: "Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?"

It's obviously unclear because I am not actually unlawfully using according to my state laws, but my state laws contradict federal laws. Issues around the discordance of state and federal law regarding marijuana will be settled in the supreme court at some point in the future. It would be like if amphetamine was illegal under any circumstance federally and there were certain states that felt it OK to prescribe Adderall. So until it's settled, I will not worry about it.

[MENTION=105591]swapmeet[/MENTION], that's phenomenal information! I just turned 30 this past August, so I wonder if age has to do with it. Cost of "feeding" is definitely a concern and was one of the questions I posted in my original post. Is it just that the bigger the caliber the more expensive the ammo? Or is .40 less common and produced less?

I actually tried a few 9s at the range, but I didn't mention them in my OP because I want something with a little more "umph". That said, it was noticeably easier to rapid fire with the 9's than the .40s. Of the .40s, I found the XDM to be the easiest to fire quickly and accurately. Like a 4runner, I'm interested in mods and accessories too!

I really appreciate the blabbing you did! I'd love to hear more about rifles and shottys soon.

 

[LandCruiser]

It's clear, it's a Federal law. Doesn't matter what states say about the legality of what the Feds consider a controlled substance.

Go write Udall and Obama a letter and see if they want to get the ATF to change their language.